My wayward daughter and her son "Messiah"

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alleykat71172

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Hi. I’ve lurked here for sometime but never posted. I’m just at my wits end with my middle daughter. 7 children and she’s always been the rebel. They were all born, baptized and raised Catholic. They went to Catholic schools, which she was suspended from more than a few times. They went to Catholic camps and were very actively involved in the church, in fact my brother in law is the priest! It’s been like pulling teeth with her though for as long as I can remember. She’s seen counselors to no avail. She’s brilliant but so, so difficult. It’s always been such a struggle to get her to mass and the older she got the worse it got. When she turned 18 she decided rules no longer applied. She was refusing to go to church or pray with us. She expected for us to pay for her to attend a secular university instead of a Catholic one. Once my younger daughter didn’t want to go to church because her sister didn’t my husband and I decided she would abide by our rules or leave. So she left. After a year of couch (or bed 😲) surfing she shows up, 19 and 7 months pregnant. She doesn’t knoweho the father is.

She is attending a community college as well as doing work study and has a full time job. But spiritualy? She claims she isnt Catholic and won’t go to church. I can’t see kicking her out but she is setting such a bad example! IDK what to do?!! And the cherry on the cake? She wants to name her son Messiah. When friends and family ask if She chose a name I cant even bring myself to admit it. I can’t call my grandson or any mortal Messiah. How do I talk her out of this? Aaaahhh! This girl is going to send me to an early grave!
 
This is a difficult situation. Have you asked her why she is choosing that name? Listen and calmly explain that she ould be stating her child up for a lifetime of ridicule, easing and having to explain why he is named that. And have you asked her what her plans are for after this child is born? I hope that if she is living with you that you have laid down the ground rules for living in your home.
 
It seems like you are really being tested. I grew up in a big, catholic family. I will share a few things I learned by watching other families that were similar. Maybe my views (from the outside) will help you. I am no longer catholic, but I am respectful to my family. Here is what I know.
  1. the more children a family has, the higher the chance at least one kid will rebel against what the parents want the family to stand for. This isn’t necessarily anyone’s fault. It is just a statistical reality.
  2. Being a middle kid in a large family has the potential to be really hard. Really hard. I have found, through my own experience, it is because there is no personal identity. Even if parents are really tuned into this, it is what happens. And what I have found is it still happens even when parents are really tuned into it. The kid is sandwiched between the upper kids and the lower kids. It is a difficult place to be when trying to build your identity. And I don’t say this as a snowflake proponent. I don’t believe kids should be treated as special snowflakes in any way shape or form. I would encourage you to try to understand the possible hardship your child went through while coming of age.
  3. Some people just don’t have faith. Therefore, they don’t buy into whatever religious beliefs and traditions the family has. The good news is, these people are usually free-thinkers and really smart. The bad news is, they can flounder while they find footing in life. Fortunately, it doesn’t always last forever. Love them, regardless of what they believe. Don’t feel you need to support them. But back off on pushing the religion. If you feel she is a bad influence on the kids still at home (sounds like she probably is), then let her know she has to make it on her own. But be loving and welcome her back when she figures out a way to live life without being a bad influence. BTW, I don’t think deciding to not attend church as an adult is being a bad influence. Sounds like there was probably some disrespectful talk that went along with that, between sisters, and that is unacceptable.
Again, I am sorry you are struggling with this. I am sure there will come a day when things are better. Don’t worry about what people think of your grandchild’s name. It really isn’t any of their business. If they know your family, they already know your daughter has issues.
 
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There are definitely ground rules. No men, curfew, curtousy calls if she’ll be late. She must work and pay a small amount of rent (we’re putting it away for her later but she doesn’t know that). The one thing I hate is she won’t go to mass. It breaks my heart but I’m worried what will happen to my grandchild if we kick her out! She is on a list for public housing it is a long wait in our area. She will likely have or be close to having her degree before she gets in, the she can afford her own place.

I have asked her why she chose the name, she said she just likes it. Her sister told her it was offensive, she told her perhaps she was just too sensitive. She doesn’t believe the child will be ridiculed, frankly names are getting weird in her defense, and sadly i dont see him being raised in any religion. That just adds another element of why? But I just hate it! I don’t understand and she won’t discuss it, always changing the subject. Reasoning with her is impossable, she is the most stubborn person ever!
 
I don’t think forcing her to go to mass is the answer, no matter how much it breaks your heart. I am glad that you have rules and that she is following them for now.

It is an odd choice of name for someone so insistent on not attending mass. Part of me thinks she is doing it to get a rise out of you and your family. “I just like it” is not a real answer.

Have you spoken to your priest about the situation?
 
Well, you do sound like a good mom, trying to do what is best. I congratulate you on your willingness to take her in. I am sure it is not easy right now
 
You sound like a fine person and a very good mother. You should talk to your priest and probably a family counselor. I think it would be helpful to back off on the potential baby name because she may dig her heels in if she knows it upsets you. You have to remove yourself from the baby name committee! If you act as though you don’t care she may actually change her mind.
Concerning Mass attendance I don’t think you can force her since she is an adult with free will. I know her lack of faith hurts and worries you but you have done all you could and set a good example. Now her actions are all hers to own for better or worse. Pray for her and hope for the best. As long as she lives with you she must respect your religious beliefs in word and attitude around you and others living in the home. Counseling for you in how to speak to her would be very helpful. I will pray for you and your family.
 
If we stopped allowing children to be named Jesus, we would see a dent in our parish population.

Trying to find COOL names has actually become an industry.

Suggest other non-standard names.
 
You might see if you can get her to see a counselor to discern out why she feels everything in her life needs to be a rebellion and a statement. It’s fine if she wants to rebel, but she shouldn’t saddle an innocent child with a name that he will come to hate. I really feel sorry for kids with bozarre names Having worked in a school, they are subject to a lifetime of teasing and eye-rolling. Why would she want that for her child?
 
I would quit insisting on Mass or any other thing a parent normally makes a minor child do. If you have a curfew it should just be a simple respect us and our sleep schedule issue. The house is locked after certain time…

I would suggest getting on her level. Think of a way to ridicule her childs name now. I know that is weird being your grandchild but she needs to understand how childish she is.

I would insist on a parenity test. Assuming she was with multiple men per night or realy hard drugs and can’t even narrow it down; I would insist on this, to the point of her continuing to stay there. This will be important to the child as they get older.

She still needs someone to get on her case, just think of a different way to do it.
 
You would insist on a paternity test? Under what grounds do you think a mother has the right to ask that of someone? And for what purpose? Let that go.
 
Well, I would guess a potential dad would want to know. As the parent/grandparent I would insist on it; though it may not be realistic according to the OP.
 
You can try telling her that with a son named like that everyone will presume she is a bigot member of some strange cult. I think she’d hate that. And I think this is exactly what will happen. You know Brangelina’s kid’'s name Shiloh means the same thing - Messiah. That is probably where she got the idea in the 1st place.
She is just angry and you reacting at her shocking won’t make her stop because it is fun for her. You gotta give her time to like you so that she will stop scratching.
i used to be angry too as a teen. But my parents were atheists so I started going to church…
 
This must be awful for you. On a practicall level you can call the baby Sy or Siah.
From personal experience I know how much a baby conceived out of wedlock can cause havoc for the grandparents.
Pray and try to keep a relationship where she knows you are there for her. By that I do not mean one where she manipulates and controls you but one where she knows you love her.
It is hard and it may seem beyond what you can do but God is with you every step of the way.
 
Have you had a grown up conversation (one without emotion) about why she has stopped practicing?

About a decade ago I heard Dr Scott Hahn speak. He told us how so many of us have been serious about teaching our kids apologetics and catechizing them, but, that in the coming years it would be far more important that we parents understand the “New” Atheism. He wrote a book about it.

In the past couple of years we have had more really good resources, studies about why people leave, etc.

So many young people walk away from the practice of their faith because they are told that science and religion are incompatible, they cannot answer “the problem of pain”, they feel the Church is mean, and often we parents are not equipped to discuss these topics from a rational, philosophical point of view.

I’d suggest a few resources that may help you be able to better converse with your daughter.

Trent Horn’s book “Why We’re Catholic”

Read some of the articles here:




Sherry Waddell’s book “Forming Intentional Disciples” is very good, because we have to help our kids become disciples. That is more than passing the Confirmation Test.

Hugs, prayers.
 
An adult has a right to change her religion. At this point, do you think that her sitting in the church, against her will, would do anyone any good?

I think you should back off on her choices for her child’s name, for now. Remember, she did, apart from the promiscuity, take care of herself responsibly for months before coming back to you. And (if this doesn’t fit in well, I’m not saying it to be popular), there’s a chance that if you hadn’t make her leave, she wouldn’t have gotten pregnant-or, at least would have known who the father was. Going to Mass is wonderful, but not for people (adults)who are dead set against it.

And please-don’t let her issues dominate the family. her younger siblings must be quite young…and they will definitely benefit from a stable, Catholic , loving home. I know, it’s impossible to ignore their sister’s issues, but make time for them, too.
 
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That Intentional Disciples book is a must-read for everyone in ministry. Excellent book.
 
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