My wedding day,,a throw back to a by-gone era

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1ke said:
It is firmly rooted in Henry VIII. He added that to the Church of England vows. It seems to have flowed from there into the various denominations that were offshoots of that church and/or ruled by Britain.
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And he meant it, too! “OBEY” or…off with your head! :eek:
 
1ke said:
Brides did not wear white at all prior to Queen Victoria choosing it for her wedding dress and making it a popular choice among the upper class and eventually couture designers and Hollywood celebrities. It has nothing to do with virginity or virtue. It has to do with pomp and wealth.

All women wore veils or hats for Mass prior to Vatican II, so in the Catholic Church the veil isn’t special either, nor a sign of anything.

And, in charity, perhaps one should also consider that a woman with a 14 year old son might be a widow, not a divorcee or out-of-wedlock parent.
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That’s true, she might be a widow. That’s an interesting history, although I think if you go back further to Bible times in the MidEast, veils were most likely worn there as well. Maybe the Victorians got the idea from them.,
 
lovesMary said:
That’s true, she might be a widow. That’s an interesting history, although I think if you go back further to Bible times in the MidEast, veils were most likely worn there as well.
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Yes, women kept their hair covered at all times in public in certain cultures, and eventually that dwindled down to only in Church. And, now, not at all. The habits of religious, the bridal veil, etc, are vestiges of this tradition.
lovesMary said:
Maybe the Victorians got the idea from them.,
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The veil certainly goes back to the tradition of covering women’s hair. The color of white, however, was based on fashion not virginity.
 
1ke said:
Yes, women kept their hair covered at all times in public in certain cultures, and eventually that dwindled down to only in Church. And, now, not at all. The habits of religious, the bridal veil, etc, are vestiges of this tradition.

Aren’t you forgetting Muslim women & the hijab and Orthodox Jewish women who still cover their hair (some completely with wigs, others with hats or scarves)?

The veil certainly goes back to the tradition of covering women’s hair. The color of white, however, was based on fashion not virginity.
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1ke said:
Yes, women kept their hair covered at all times in public in certain cultures, and eventually that dwindled down to only in Church. And, now, not at all. The habits of religious, the bridal veil, etc, are vestiges of this tradition.
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In Orthodox Judaism, married women still cover their hair entirely, usually with wigs, scarves or snoods.

It has always been the law for Jewish married women to cover their hair. This is why Mary is always portrayed in Catholic art as having a veil over her hair.
 
I agree that she should not have the words ‘obey’ in her ceremony, and that there is too much emphasis nowadays on ‘personalizing’ the wedding ceremony.

But I don’t see the reason to get down on her for having a kid. We have no idea what her life is or was like…maybe she was married before in an invalid marriage, maybe she had a child out of wedlock, maybe she’s a widow, maybe she was raped, who knows…but even if she wasn’t ‘old fashioned’ then, she can certainly embrace that now, and I say go for it with the white dress. First of all, it isn’t tradtionally associated with virginity, and if she is a convert/revert I think she has just as much right to wear it as somebody who had the grace to be a virgin their whole life.

Same thing goes for having a wedding ceremony and Mass and all that - if she has indeed come to the Church and is interested in a truly sacramental marriage, that is certainly something to celebrate ESPECIALLY if she wasn’t interested in that before. Kind of like the parable of the lost coins and sheep and all that 🙂
 
HashemEchad said:
In Orthodox Judaism, married women still cover their hair entirely, usually with wigs, scarves or snoods.

It has always been the law for Jewish married women to cover their hair. This is why Mary is always portrayed in Catholic art as having a veil over her hair.
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I think that is interesting. Thanks for posting that.🙂
 
Asillia said:
I agree that she should not have the words ‘obey’ in her ceremony, and that there is too much emphasis nowadays on ‘personalizing’ the wedding ceremony.

But I don’t see the reason to get down on her for having a kid. We have no idea what her life is or was like…maybe she was married before in an invalid marriage, maybe she had a child out of wedlock, maybe she’s a widow, maybe she was raped, who knows…but even if she wasn’t ‘old fashioned’ then, she can certainly embrace that now, and I say go for it with the white dress. First of all, it isn’t tradtionally associated with virginity, and if she is a convert/revert I think she has just as much right to wear it as somebody who had the grace to be a virgin their whole life.

Same thing goes for having a wedding ceremony and Mass and all that - if she has indeed come to the Church and is interested in a truly sacramental marriage, that is certainly something to celebrate ESPECIALLY if she wasn’t interested in that before. Kind of like the parable of the lost coins and sheep and all that 🙂
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Who was down on her for having a kid???:confused: Nothing wrong with kids, the more the merrier.

She could wear a red dress if it makes her happy. Red is my favorite color. I was married in red.
 
Now you’ve got me thinking of Beetlejuice. Remember the red wedding dress Winona Ryder wears in that movie? I always thought it looked COOL. 😛

As for the kid thing, there was some discussion of wearing “virginal” white on page 3…🤷
 
duskyjewel said:
Now you’ve got me thinking of Beetlejuice. Remember the red wedding dress Winona Ryder wears in that movie? I always thought it looked COOL. 😛 Nah, not that cool.

As for the kid thing, there was some discussion of wearing “virginal” white on page 3…🤷 Oh please! The OP doesn’t have enough to do right now?
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A red dress would be totally awesome!

I wanted purple, but I settled on Ivory.
 
Aside from the “obey” part, I think this bride should be commended for at least trying and valuing the old fashioned ways, and to knock her about wearing white, well that just wasn’t very kind. I didn’t “deserve” to wear white either, but I did, and I would guess that a lot of others here wore white, too.
It’s nobody’s business whether one is a virgin or not. 😉

ETA; Do we not go to Confession before the wedding? Are not ALL of our sins forgiven?
 
PatienceAndLove said:
Always go to Confession before receiving a Sacrament!
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I want to make fun of you for overlooking the fact that Confession is itself a Sacrament, but I’ll be good. 😉

Speaking of olde-fashioned weddings, my darling fiancée is insisting on a Victorian wedding, so that’s what we’re doing. Less than 100 days, now!

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight
 
Ne_OrangeKnight said:
I want to make fun of you for overlooking the fact that Confession is itself a Sacrament, but I’ll be good. 😉

Speaking of olde-fashioned weddings, my darling fiancée is insisting on a Victorian wedding, so that’s what we’re doing. Less than 100 days, now!

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight
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You know what I mean 😛
 
lovesMary said:
That’s true, she might be a widow. That’s an interesting history, although I think if you go back further to Bible times in the MidEast, veils were most likely worn there as well. Maybe the Victorians got the idea from them.,
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1ke is correct. White was not as popular for brides until Queen Victoria’s marriage in 1840. Before that it was a bride’s best dress - it could be white, but it also could be blue, pink, yellow, etc. Poorer brides, tended to wear gray at one point because it was a practical best dress for Sunday so that it wouldn’t get dirty too easily. Blue was popular at one point because it symbolised virginity, purity and the Virgin Mary (if the bride was Catholic). Pink was also popular because it symbolised girlhood - into womanhood - and virginity. White was never really considered virginity. Perhaps purity, but it was more of a fashion statement before anything else. Reds and purples were popular in medieval and renaissance times because you had to be wealthy to have the clothes dyed like that. Reds became unpopular in Victorian times, though, because it was associated with “harlotry”.

On the contrary regarding veils, up until the mid to late 19th century, all respectable women wore veils or other kind of headcovering whereever they went. Only prostitutes and women of ill-repute had their heads shown - they weren’t allowed to cover their heads in some areas - unless in a church or if they reformed their ways. As an 18th c. reenactor, myself, if I want to not wear a cap or some other headcovering, I have to portray myself as a loose camp follower rather than a wife or daughter of an man in King George’s or George Washington’s army (we do both British and American impressions). So, there isn’t anything wrong for a bride who is living a Christian life despite her past or despite the fact that she was married and widowed or had a child out of wedlock, etc. to want to wear a veil or white.
 
1ke said:
DH and I chose to have a Procession. We had a cross bearer followed by the readers, the bridal party, the priest and deacon, and then us. He was escorted by his parents and I was escorted by mine. This is the way the Rite is written-- while most priests will bend the rules and allow the “father escorting the bride” without a procession and with the priest/groom entering at the altar, it is actually a liturgical abuse if you want to get down to brass tacks.
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And actually in the distant past (medieval/renaissance), bridal processions took place outside of the church with the entire town/community taking part. The bride would be escorted by two bachelors, then they’d have maidens with garlands, maidens carrying the cake, the groom would be escorted by two maidens, then family and friends followed behind. The actual exchanging of the vows took place outside of the church, then all would enter the church for the mass. Versions of that continued through the centuries with processions taking place from the bride’s house to the church. When the exchange of vows took place inside the church, sometimes, the people wouldn’t even be with them inside and all would wait until the couple and the few witnesses came out of the church to throw rice or other things.
 
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