My wife at church

[millstreet]

I’ve posted about my wife and her response to my return to the Church a couple of times over the past two years. She as at times been interested, at other times hostile, still others indifferent. Now here is my current problem.

I’ve been taking my 3yo twins to church every week. When I take them myself, I don’t let them get away with much, and they are actually remarkably well-behaved. On the premise that I can’t handle them myself, though, my wife has periodically accompanied us. When she goes, discipline goes out the windows, even though we always talk about it at length before we go. She’ll sit them in her lap facing her, they’ll pull her hair and glasses, she’ll engage them in “kissing battles” (loudly), etc., all while mass is going on, all seemingly oblivious to the fact that mass is going on. She generally doesn’t listen or pay attention, participates only sparingly (she won’t kneel, for example), and just doesn’t show much respect. Besides the fact that it’s not right, my kids see this, and they are impressionable. And they definitely milk the fact that mommy is there, when she is.

I’m afraid to say much, because I know how she’ll react - she’ll use it to convince herself that church is unwelcoming and she wants nothing to do with it. I don’t want to drive her away, and I certainly want us to attend as a family - plus I have no right to tel her she can’t come. But at some point it is counterproductive and disrespectful, and it is sending the wrong messages to the twins. WHAT DO I DO?

 

[Xantippe]

I’ve posted about my wife and her response to my return to the Church a couple of times over the past two years. She as at times been interested, at other times hostile, still others indifferent. Now here is my current problem.

I’ve been taking my 3yo twins to church every week. When I take them myself, I don’t let them get away with much, and they are actually remarkably well-behaved. On the premise that I can’t handle them myself, though, my wife has periodically accompanied us. When she goes, discipline goes out the windows, even though we always talk about it at length before we go. She’ll sit them in her lap facing her, they’ll pull her hair and glasses, she’ll engage them in “kissing battles” (loudly), etc., all while mass is going on, all seemingly oblivious to the fact that mass is going on. She generally doesn’t listen or pay attention, participates only sparingly (she won’t kneel, for example), and just doesn’t show much respect. Besides the fact that it’s not right, my kids see this, and they are impressionable. And they definitely milk the fact that mommy is there, when she is.

I’m afraid to say much, because I know how she’ll react - she’ll use it to convince herself that church is unwelcoming and she wants nothing to do with it. I don’t want to drive her away, and I certainly want us to attend as a family - plus I have no right to tel her she can’t come. But at some point it is counterproductive and disrespectful, and it is sending the wrong messages to the twins. WHAT DO I DO?

I’m glad you do so well with the twins by yourself. That’s fantastic.

If your wife isn’t Catholic, why should she kneel?

 

[Xantippe]

There’s a book called “How to Be a Perfect Stranger” that is about etiquette in different religious settings. I haven’t read it myself, but have heard good things.

jewishlights.com/page/product/978-1-59473-140-2

See if you can get it through the library, check out the Roman Catholic section, and if it seems helpful, share it with your wife. It will sound better coming from someone that isn’t you.

 

[pensmama87]

It may just be that it’s a novelty for your children for their mother to be there. Over Thanksgiving my sister (who is not Catholic) attended Mass with us, and my kids (1.5 and 3.5) were definitely a lot wilder than usual.

I have to admire your wife for being willing to step way out of her comfort zone and attend Mass. It may be that some of these little games she plays with your children are ways to make her more comfortable. I would let it go as much as you could, because I think as she continues to attend, the novelty will wear off for your kids, she’ll get a better idea of what noise level is appropriate, etc, and she’ll hopefully be more comfortable, too. Since you know your kids can behave well at Mass, I think you can rest assured that they can learn again to behave when their mom is there - but they are learning together. Three years old is still pretty little, and most people are very forgiving as long as parents are making an effort (and you are.)

If I were in your situation, I would try to ask myself, “What do I want more? My wife to attend Mass with me, or my kids to behave?” I think in most situations, I’d rather have my spouse there, even if it meant doing a bit more damage control.

 

[Cat]

You do realize, don’t you, that you can’t force a grown woman to go to church?

Even if you do, it’s not a real faith. She’s just putting in the time.

I don’t see the point of the whole family going to church when it’s just a “show.” She isn’t Catholic, she isn’t interested, and to her, it’s just something that she feels obligated to do so that you won’t be upset and so that your family will “look good” in front of others in the church.

That’s not family togetherness and it probably won’t help to bring her to a realization of the importance of faith in Jesus Christ.

My suggestion is to back off and tell her, “Honey, it’s OK to stay home. I’ll bring the twins to church with me, and you stay home and relax, or go out to breakfast and read a novel.”

Through your daily, moment-by-moment example of love and holiness, SHOW her how receiving Jesus in Holy Communion at Mass is making you a better person. Actions speak louder than words. If you live a holy life and demonstrate the love of Christ in your heart everyday, she will be intrigued and eventually, she will ask to go to Church with you so that she can learn how she can be like you!

BTW, it might take years before she responds to your Christian testimony lived out through a holy and loving life. Don’t expect her to be intrigued after only a couple of months. She wants to know that this whole “Catholic faith thing” is for real, and she will be watching you like a hawk.

 

[robertkchacon]

You do realize, don’t you, that you can’t force a grown woman to go to church?

Even if you do, it’s not a real faith. She’s just putting in the time.

I don’t see the point of the whole family going to church when it’s just a “show.” She isn’t Catholic, she isn’t interested, and to her, it’s just something that she feels obligated to do so that you won’t be upset and so that your family will “look good” in front of others in the church.

That’s not family togetherness and it probably won’t help to bring her to a realization of the importance of faith in Jesus Christ.

My suggestion is to back off and tell her, “Honey, it’s OK to stay home. I’ll bring the twins to church with me, and you stay home and relax, or go out to breakfast and read a novel.”

Through your daily, moment-by-moment example of love and holiness, SHOW her how receiving Jesus in Holy Communion at Mass is making you a better person. Actions speak louder than words. If you live a holy life and demonstrate the love of Christ in your heart everyday, she will be intrigued and eventually, she will ask to go to Church with you so that she can learn how she can be like you!

BTW, it might take years before she responds to your Christian testimony lived out through a holy and loving life. Don’t expect her to be intrigued after only a couple of months. She wants to know that this whole “Catholic faith thing” is for real, and she will be watching you like a hawk.

What this says!

 

[robwar]

You do realize, don’t you, that you can’t force a grown woman to go to church?

Even if you do, it’s not a real faith. She’s just putting in the time.

I don’t see the point of the whole family going to church when it’s just a “show.” She isn’t Catholic, she isn’t interested, and to her, it’s just something that she feels obligated to do so that you won’t be upset and so that your family will “look good” in front of others in the church.

That’s not family togetherness and it probably won’t help to bring her to a realization of the importance of faith in Jesus Christ.

My suggestion is to back off and tell her, “Honey, it’s OK to stay home. I’ll bring the twins to church with me, and you stay home and relax, or go out to breakfast and read a novel.”

Through your daily, moment-by-moment example of love and holiness, SHOW her how receiving Jesus in Holy Communion at Mass is making you a better person. Actions speak louder than words. If you live a holy life and demonstrate the love of Christ in your heart everyday, she will be intrigued and eventually, she will ask to go to Church with you so that she can learn how she can be like you!

BTW, it might take years before she responds to your Christian testimony lived out through a holy and loving life. Don’t expect her to be intrigued after only a couple of months. She wants to know that this whole “Catholic faith thing” is for real, and she will be watching you like a hawk.

dittos to the above. Likewise concerning the twins acting out more with her there, are you more of the disciplinarian than your wife? This could be a sign of that. Just take your kids by yourself and don’t worry about what others may think. It is none of anyone else’s business anyway and no one really thinks too hard about who isn’t or is together at church.

 

[QuasiCatholic]

If your wife isn’t Catholic, why should she kneel?

I would go one further and say if your wife isn’t Catholic – or preparing to become Catholic at least – she SHOULDN’T kneel.

I don’t remember who told me that when I started going to church with my husband – whether it was one of his relatives or a book I was reading or what – but the gist is that Catholics kneel because they believe God is there and they are honoring him.

But if you don’t believe God is there, you’re kneeling to bread, which is ridiculous. So faith first, kneeling after.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Personally,I find the kind if behavior your wife engages in at Mass to be a distraction and a show of inconsideration for others’.So,if n fact she isn’t Catholic,I would just take the kids alone,since you mentioned their behavior is fine with just you.If your wife asks to go along,then I would mention her past antics and request she behave like an adult.

 

[tryphon]

My wife is an atheist, born and raised in China. I took her to midnight Mass at Christmas and she spent the time playing games on her iPhone. I was very embaressed and wished she had stayed at home. Our 7 year old daughter was with us and she enjoyed the wonderful ceremony.

 

[bitznbitez]

Relax. Sounds like you are actually having success and don’t realize it. Seriously. Be patient and thank God for how far you have come.

I went several years wanting to convert, my wife wanting to stay with the local Lutheran church we attended at the time. There was a lot of hostility. Priests advice was essentially don’t try so hard, let things be. I did it the opposite of my nature and we were both received at easter vigil eventually.

Your wife is coming to church with the kids sometimes. That in itself is progress. A mom with a pair of 3 year olds not kneeling, well naturally… and letting kids do what you are describing… I’m impressed she can make it through a service at all. Its hard to do. I don’t know anyone who would look at her struggling with them and think she was doing a bad job. Honestly. They’d probably feel sympathy for her and remember their years raising kids. And if they see Dad getting grumpy at mom… they’ll have more sympathy for her

There is a reason the phrase “You wait till your father gets home” exists in the culture. Moms love in a way that fathers don’t and often that means letting them do things father doesn’t. Look around the parish. Young kids sit near moms not dads if given a choice usually, for a reason. Let her be a loving mom, kids need that too.

If your fear is your kids growing up without the faith or proper respect… You’ll win the battle more by being nice, letting things be overlooked, being patient and loose it by being assertive about things. This is true both with your wife and with your kids as they grow up watching.

When you kneel look at the crucifix over the altar. Imitate Christ. Suffer quietly and always be nice, appreciative for the little things, over look the rest. Whether its Christian philosophy or the old maxim “You catch more flies with honey than vinegar” its true. Instead of worrying what she doesn’t do right, look at what she does do. Thank her for that, overlook what you don’t like. Don’t tell her she isn’t behaving right at mass… just say “Thanks for coming today” and take her out for a dinner she doesn’t have to cook, or if kids in a restaurant is to hard, get takeout and bring it home.

Be patient.

 

[BettyBoop416]

I don’t see the point of the whole family going to church when it’s just a “show.” She isn’t Catholic, she isn’t interested, and to her, it’s just something that she feels obligated to do so that you won’t be upset and so that your family will “look good” in front of others in the church.

My non-believing husband has always attended Mass with me - before the kids, while raising the kids, and after they flew the coup. He has done this not from a sense of obligation, but out of respect for and solidarity with me. Believe me, he’s the last guy in the world that is concerned with “looking good” to others in the church. Given my experience, I wouldn’t be so quick to be dismissive of the OP’s wife.

I would go one further and say if your wife isn’t Catholic – or preparing to become Catholic at least – she SHOULDN’T kneel.

I don’t remember who told me that when I started going to church with my husband – whether it was one of his relatives or a book I was reading or what – but the gist is that Catholics kneel because they believe God is there and they are honoring him.

But if you don’t believe God is there, you’re kneeling to bread, which is ridiculous. So faith first, kneeling after.

When attending Mass with me, DH always kneels at the appropriate times. He does this as a way of showing respect and to avoid being a distraction to others. While he certainly does not believe that “God is there,” it is your assertion that he is “kneeling to bread” that’s ridiculous.

 

[Xantippe]

My non-believing husband has always attended Mass with me - before the kids, while raising the kids, and after they flew the coup. He has done this not from a sense of obligation, but out of respect for and solidarity with me. Believe me, he’s the last guy in the world that is concerned with “looking good” to others in the church. Given my experience, I wouldn’t be so quick to be dismissive of the OP’s wife.

When attending Mass with me, DH always kneels at the appropriate times. He does this as a way of showing respect and to avoid being a distraction to others. While he certainly does not believe that “God is there,” it is your assertion that he is “kneeling to bread” that’s ridiculous.

It’s great that your husband kneels, but the gesture means something in the liturgical context.

Consider, hypothetically, if you would bow (or do some other sign of respect) to a statue of a Hindu god if you were married to a Hindu.

 

[BettyBoop416]

It’s great that your husband kneels, but the gesture means something in the liturgical context.

Not to DH, it doesn’t.

While I understand what you mean, we should remember that gestures such as this might have a different meaning to different people. To suggest that a non-believer is “kneeling to bread” (as the poster above asserted) is borderline offensive.

*Consider, hypothetically, if you would bow (or do some other sign of respect) to a statue of a Hindu god if you were married to a Hindu.
*

Well, actually…been there; done that. While on a business trip to the Philippines one of our hosts took a group of us (which included a few Catholic priests) to visit the Taoist Temple in Cebu City. We all bowed respectfully. Not reverently; not in a worshipful manner; but in a respectful manner. I don’t think there is any sin in exercising good manners.

 

[millstreet]

So to clarify, not trying to force her to attend. As I continually tell her, she doesn’t need to come on our account, I don’t need the help and I don’t care about the “appearances”, other than I’d rather my kids see her not going than to see her not taking it seriously. It is actually considerably less stressful when she’s not there. But I would love to see her want to be there, so I don’t want to drive her away which is what I’m afraid of doing. Everyone on here has made some good points to think about, thank you.

 

[LongingSoul]

So to clarify, not trying to force her to attend. As I continually tell her, she doesn’t need to come on our account, I don’t need the help and I don’t care about the “appearances”, other than I’d rather my kids see her not going than to see her not taking it seriously. It is actually considerably less stressful when she’s not there. But I would love to see her want to be there, so I don’t want to drive her away which is what I’m afraid of doing. Everyone on here has made some good points to think about, thank you.

Both my sisters in law and my brother in law converted after marrying into our family. My BIL had been raised Uniting Church and had attended with his parents in their country town periodically so he had some sense of reverence when he started going to Mass with my sister.

However both my SILs were completely unchurched (although christened in Christian Churchs). Both were completely ignorant of reverence really. There was no experience in their lives of what reverence of a religious nature was. 25 years into the faith they have developed that sense a lot more but I think that when we are brought up in the faith we take it for granted and not really understand that it feels awkward to others who are just coming into it.

Perhaps you could try and explain reverence to her and give her some tips on what to think on in the stillness of Mass. Listening to the readings and gospels so that you can talk about them after Mass and thinking about what Jesus life was like in the moment that the Gospel reflects on. Those sort of things are awkward and unnatural to those who haven’t been raised on it.

 

[aTraditionalist]

QuasiCatholic:

I would go one further and say if your wife isn’t Catholic – or preparing to become Catholic at least – she SHOULDN’T kneel.

I don’t remember who told me that when I started going to church with my husband – whether it was one of his relatives or a book I was reading or what – but the gist is that Catholics kneel because they believe God is there and they are honoring him.

But if you don’t believe God is there, you’re kneeling to bread, which is ridiculous. So faith first, kneeling after.

The polite thing to do is kneel. Her lack of faith does not diminish the real presence of Our Lord. I bet if she were to visit a mosque, she would remove her shoes out of respect. So why not genuflect? I ask non Catholic visitors to genuflect at least as a courtesy to me and they oblige.

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[Xantippe]

The polite thing to do is kneel. Her lack of faith does not diminish the real presence of Our Lord. I bet if she were to visit a mosque, she would remove her shoes out of respect. So why not genuflect? I ask non Catholic visitors to genuflect at least as a courtesy to me and they oblige.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

Eh, I think you’re asking too much of your non-Catholic guests, just as they would be asking too much of you if they asked you to speak in tongues at their Pentecostal church.

Being respectful is not the same as participating.

 

[Anglewannabe]

You do realize, don’t you, that you can’t force a grown woman to go to church?
Even if you do, it’s not a real faith. She’s just putting in the time.

I don’t see the point of the whole family going to church when it’s just a “show.” She isn’t Catholic, she isn’t interested, and to her, it’s just something that she feels obligated to do so that you won’t be upset and so that your family will “look good” in front of others in the church.

.

Just curious, but where did the OP say he wanted his wife to come to church? It sounds more to me like his wife is the one wanting to be there, not him asking her

 

[Nelka]

It is strange reading this thread, we also have three year old twins that behave when they are just with me but think they can speak loudly, roll about the floor and run around when my wife is there (which is most weeks). My wife is a Catholic though which is different to your situation.

When I told my wife once that she needs to back me up with them she acted as if I had committed adultery or something and somehow made me feel like the bad guy.

It is all about discipline, the children know they can push the boundaries with mum more than dad. When I take them shopping they behave, if they want something and I say no they accept it. When we all shop together they take stuff off shelves saying they want this and that and if there is a no it turns into a mini tantrum. It is frustrating because it feels like I have two sets of twins.

I am hoping that as they begin to understand more they will behave more, for example when we told them that the Priest was watching them and was going to come and speak to them there was a pause in their bad behaviour.

They are better behaved in church than they were six months ago, when they can spend more than ten seconds looking at a book it will be better.

I am sure Satan has a hand in this somewhere as they seem to have a bad behaviour energy burst when we are at church than anywhere else, I don’t know if he is allowed to tempt a three year old but I am sure he can turn my wife’s grumpy levels up and weaken my patience levels.

I must remember to speak to my Guardian Angel before Mass, I keep forgetting, you will be surprised how easy it is, I have come into the house where my wife was in a foul mood with me, I prayed for help from my Guardian Angela and asked him to chase Satan out of the house and my wife seemed more tolerable towards me.

Prayers are powerful, sometimes we forget and sometimes we doubt.

Sorry for the long post.