My wife constantly threatens divorce

[SugarMagnolia]

Well, she is Filipina, and someone made a remark about skin color…but not in a bad way. A woman, who is married to a Chaldean husband, pointed to her own white skin and then to her own baby’s and said, “Look, my baby turned out white like me.” My wife took that as her insinuating that to be white is superior–which I think is crazy, because she is married to an Arab!!!

And yes, there ARE people in my church that are jerks (very small parish, hard to miss them), but I told my wife, ignore them, forgive them, love your enemies, etc.

Another person apparently made a remark about her “getting pudgy” in front of other and she was very hurt. I only learned about it months later, after my wife stopped attending. I told the woman that what she said hurt my wife. She tried reaching out to my wife by taking her out to a fancy dinner, but my wife blew her off.

There are different degrees of NPD/BPD. She is not a violent, seething crazy bi*ch, but definitely really easy to offend, cuts people off when she’s mad at them, always demands to be be put first, unwilling to forgive and forget, lacks the ability to compromise. She’s a moderate case. Mind you, my shrink never met her, so his diagnosis is from a distance. But he is a good, pro-marriage, Catholic therapist. I just told him the whole story trying to be as objective as I could–I tried to tell if from her side of the story too and I mentioned my many shortcomings.

Mind you, my shrink never met her, so his diagnosis is from a distance.
No real psychiatrist or psychologist would diagnose a person they have never met. I don’t know what you mean by “shrink” but obviously it’s not a psychiatrist or psychologist. Therefore, the so-called diagnosis is meaningless.

**Another person apparently made a remark about her “getting pudgy” in front of other and she was very hurt.**If someone called me “pudgy” I’d be offended too! And if the person who called me “pudgy” wanted to take me out to eat, I’d be doubly offended. No one wants to eat with someone who just called them fat.

 

[royal_archer]

**Another person apparently made a remark about her “getting pudgy” in front of other and she was very hurt.**If someone called me “pudgy” I’d be offended too! And if the person who called me “pudgy” wanted to take me out to eat, I’d be doubly offended. No one wants to eat with someone who just called them fat.

The pudgy comment just doesn’t seem like something you would hear someone saying to someone else in church. Is it possible that it was an honnest mis understanding?

For instance an overheard comment which was completely un related but her being sensitive caused her to think they were talking about her?

Was it a case of two people thinking they were having a private conversation and they never intended her to hear the comment, not that that makes it right but it isn’t the same as deliberately calling somone pudgy.

 

[Rence]

Thanks for all your responses.

I am aware of the canons in question. But what good do they do? Quoting a book to an angry spouse whose feelings were hurt doesn’t do much good. All she would have to do is not show up for the Baptism, not meet with the priest beforehand, veto all my candidates for godparents, etc. It’s a tough spot…

Actually, my priest is advising me to divorce her after all I told you. Surprising, huh?

No, not surprising at all. Not only is she emotionally blackmailing you, but she’s going to make you and your future children absolutely miserable. I would seriously consider what the doctor and your priest are telling you. The spiritual welfare of your children are your reponsibility.

 

[Rence]

Well, she is Filipina, and someone made a remark about skin color…but not in a bad way. A woman, who is married to a Chaldean husband, pointed to her own white skin and then to her own baby’s and said, “Look, my baby turned out white like me.” My wife took that as her insinuating that to be white is superior–which I think is crazy, because she is married to an Arab!!!

And yes, there ARE people in my church that are jerks (very small parish, hard to miss them), but I told my wife, ignore them, forgive them, love your enemies, etc.

Another person apparently made a remark about her “getting pudgy” in front of other and she was very hurt. I only learned about it months later, after my wife stopped attending. I told the woman that what she said hurt my wife. She tried reaching out to my wife by taking her out to a fancy dinner, but my wife blew her off.

There are different degrees of NPD/BPD. She is not a violent, seething crazy bi*ch, but definitely really easy to offend, cuts people off when she’s mad at them, always demands to be be put first, unwilling to forgive and forget, lacks the ability to compromise. She’s a moderate case. Mind you, my shrink never met her, so his diagnosis is from a distance. But he is a good, pro-marriage, Catholic therapist. I just told him the whole story trying to be as objective as I could–I tried to tell if from her side of the story too and I mentioned my many shortcomings.

If the specific Church is the problem, can’t you go someplace else? Or is this the only Eastern Church that you can get to? If there is another Church, I would consider going there instead. Try to meet her half-way?

However, IMOHO her constant threats of divorce are inexcuseable…

 

[TheAdvocate]

If the specific Church is the problem, can’t you go someplace else? Or is this the only Eastern Church that you can get to? If there is another Church, I would consider going there instead. Try to meet her half-way?

However, IMOHO her constant threats of divorce are inexcuseable…

Yes, there are other Eastern churches. So I tried to make a deal with her.

1. Any future children (we have none) would be baptized into the Latin rite (something I never thought I’d agree to a year ago);
2. We would attend said Latin Rite church together with any future children;
3. I would continue attending my own eastern rite church without her–I would support her decision not to attend, while she would understand why I would;
4. Once a month, we would attend a a different Eastern-Catholic church together if we had children.

Anyway, she said no to these.

All of it seems pointless, anyway. When I came home yesterday, she moved all of her stuff out.

By the way, I deeply appreciate all your posts and prayers.

 

[SpaceNeedle]

I am very sorry, my friend. I pray the Holy Spirit guides you both,

 

[jwashu]

Can you give examples of the things that people at your parish have said that are so offensive to her?

If your therapist is telling you that she is npd or bpd, I would take it seriously.

Constantly threatening divorce is not a good thing. It is the tool of someone who is verbally/emotionally abusive.

Whoa a minute, you said YOUR therapist… has your therapist met with her or just taking your words for this? and unless your priest is also a shrink he has no place labeling your wife as that only hurts your relationship with her.

I haven’t read the whole thread yet but will, my questions would be, what did people say and do to get her so upset?

At the same time, if your wife feels so strongly about not going to your parish, why not consider trying another one? Yes you have long lasting ties and you could visit from time to time but where you worship isn’t as important as that you worship and attend a valid Mass.

I would say try looking for another parish… if the same thing happens there, then you have good evidence it’s not the parish but your wife who has issues to deal with.

Remember that in a sacramental marriage both partners must give 100% even when the other is not.

Joe

 

[jwashu]

Very sorry to hear that she moved out, you guys are in my prayers.

Joe

 

[cheese_sdc]

It’s a power play. Drop her now, before you have kids. It will only get worse.

 

[St_Francis]

If someone called me “pudgy” I’d be offended too! And if the person who called me “pudgy” wanted to take me out to eat, I’d be doubly offended. No one wants to eat with someone who just called them fat.

The pudgy comment just doesn’t seem like something you would hear someone saying to someone else in church. Is it possible that it was an honnest mis understanding?

For instance an overheard comment which was completely un related but her being sensitive caused her to think they were talking about her?

Was it a case of two people thinking they were having a private conversation and they never intended her to hear the comment, not that that makes it right but it isn’t the same as deliberately calling somone pudgy.

Apparently the lady who made the remark was talking about herself or in general, using the word you in that way we do, instead of people or one, and didn’t mean the remark to be directed towards his wife at all.

And I think offering to take her to lunch was quite a nice apology and very friendly gesture! All she needed to do was to say she was sorry about her comment.

 

[St_Francis]

… When I came home yesterday, she moved all of her stuff out.

By the way, I deeply appreciate all your posts and prayers.

I am so sorry to hear this. I’ll pray for you.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

It’s a power play. Drop her now, before you have kids. It will only get worse.

It seems to me, too, that unfortunately this is the case. That this is a power play from your wife’s part. And IF that’s the case indeed, than it’s best to run to the hills, and give thanks to God that she moved out… Because that would mean that your wife didn’t really love you or care about you, and her primary concern was indeed asserting her own power - which is an indication of sick personality (NPD/BPD?).

Advocate, may I ask, for how long have you known your wife before marriage, and how long have you been married? Did your wife always behave like this? Did she behave like this also with other people, not only these 2 persons at your church whom she accuses of offending her? Did she try to cut you off also from other friends and family? Did she try to impose her will on you, also in other areas (work, finances, how to manage your lives together etc)?

These are the elements that struck me in your description of the situation, because they seem to support the idea that your wife, instead of being genuinely committed to you and to your welfare, is simply doing a power play:

-your wife refuses any form of counseling and conflict management, any attempts to repair and improve your marriage

-she won’t even agree to attend a different Eastern Catholic parish, once a month, with you

-repeated threats of divorce during arguments

These are very bad signs, IMHO.

 

[TheAdvocate]

My friend, your response was very heartfelt. I suppose I should tell you more so get ready for a novel…

I believe my wife did love and care about me. When we were dating she went along with most everything. We dated for 9 months before I proposed, then we had a 1-1/2 yr. engagement. Within 2 hrs of meeting her at a singles event we were having coffee and she asked me what was the most important thing for me in a mate. Being a faithful Catholic was at the top of my list, but since I knew she was Cath., I moved to #2: “someone who could be accepting of my culture.” Soon after dating I invited her to my church for Easter. In a few weeks she learned to read in my language and she even joined me in the choir (which I lead). I also belonged to a folk choir. (“belonged” because after we got married, she made me quit going to rehearsals–“You’re married now!”)

We didn’t start having really serious problems till engagement. One huge problem was jealousy. Once a waitress was hitting on me and even got me a free drink right in front of her and my friends. I suppose there was some subconscious flirting back on my part, but only briefly. I had told the waitress that she has an expressive face and that she should go into acting. Anyway, after she put the free drink on the table and I realized it was for me, I freaked and totally ignored her. I just put my head down and didn’t talk to her anymore when she visited our table. (This really got the waitress mad!) To my fiancee, that wasn’t enough. She wanted me to take the drink to her and tell her that I am engaged. Since I didn’t do it, she did. She walked up to her and told her that no one at the table ordered the drink, and that I am her fiance. Okay, I just didn’t want to cause drama in front of everyone. Perhaps I should have handled it the way she eventually did. Anyway, later that evening, I apologized to her on my knees for what happened. I apologized over and over and over. And I would continue to do so for perhaps the next 8 months because she’d keep bringing it up. She doesn’t drop stuff quickly.

Another problem was my family. My father is very old (92) and my mom’s chronically ill. Both lived with my sister and her husband. My financee and I owned a home (but didn’t live together till we got married). Taking care of my parents was putting an awful strain on my sister’s marriage. The “D” word was even brought up. They turned to me for relief. So it was proposed that after 6 months of marriage, my parents would live 6 months with them, and 6 months with us. Believe it or not, the 6 month plan was something my fiancee came up with. She later regretted coming up with it, though (but can you blame her? Newlyweds dealing with the additional stress of caring for sick parents?) Anyway, she got really mad at my sister and brother-in-law (B-I-L.), and told me that I’m making their problems our problems. Luckily now, my dad is in a nursing home, and my mom lives with my sister still. After a year of marriage, my sis and B-I-L tried to get us to just take care of my mom for three weeks at our house. My wife started WW III. I thought 3 weeks was reasonable. But not for my wife: she can’t stand my mom…or my sister…or my B-I-L.

So do I feel cut off from my own family? Yes. Even when my mom or sister call, which would be infrequently (say, two to three times a week between the both of them), my wife would get really annoyed. When I used to go grocery shopping for my mom, she would get annoyed. Seems selfish, huh? But I’m fair, so I’ll give her side. My wife felt neglected in the marriage, said we didn’t do enough quality time things together, that I wasn’t that interested. This is true, could have done much more. So many wives have this problem, and I told her that this was largely a “Mars-Venus” thing. So I resolved to change all that and have date night once/week. But by that time there was so much hurt she wasn’t all that into it.

Another issue: my wife found wedding pictures from a previous marriage in a box in the garage, a bit of my ex’s jewelry, and later (about a month ago) some leftover pictures of an ex-girlfriend that I had on iPhoto. I forgot about the wedding pictures and the jewelry, and I made an attempt to throw away my photos of my ex-girlfriend, but apparently I missed a few. My wife even made me throw away pictures of an ex girlfriend from nearly two decades ago when I was 20! And she says she’s not jealous. If not, insecure is more like it. Anyway, she was livid!

Finally, my ex still owes me $$, so I had email communication with her to ensure steady PayPal payments. My wife got mad because she thought the emails were too chummy. They weren’t flirtatious in the least – I was just trying to keep it amicable. You know, “hope you’re well,” “sorry to hear that your son is sick, I’ll pray for him,” etc… My wife wanted it to be strictly business, but I felt it would be too cold and could stop her from paying. I didn’t want the stress of involving judges and lawyers. I also felt like I was walking on eggshells with these emails, so I contacted my ex from my work email and told to her to communicate with me there instead of my home email. My ex replied, “wow, she really is the jealous type,” and I replied that I agree, but that it was understandable to a point. Anyway, there IS a way to read my work emails from home, and yup, you guessed it, my wife found them. I know I handled it in the wrong way, but I got tired of being hounded by my wife.

Anyhow, one of the themes here is her jealousy. When we went to Vegas last year for our first anniversary, I had to look at the floor (by my own choice) when young women were walking by because I didn’t want my wife to think I was looking at them.

Anyway, if no one read this ridiculously long post, I understand. But if you did, YOU ROCK!!!

 

[dulcissima]

You are lucky she left. It sounds like you should have known better than to marry her in the first place.

Stop walking on eggshells. If a woman makes you get on your hands and knees and beg, you shouldn’t marry them. If for some reason you take this woman back, don’t accept this behavior from her at all.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

OK, my friend, Dulcissima and I both rock, apparently, because we’ve both read your long post.

But, more seriously, it was a very instructive post. I’m going to re-read it once more, but the picture that emerges from your posts is more and more heartbreaking. I’m not sure you could ever be able to satisfy your wife’s demands, even if you abandoned your whole family and all your friends for her sake, even if you offered your whole life and whole self as a holocaust to her…

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

I don’t know whether your marriage is valid or not. But one thing is 100% sure, your wife has very serious problems. Is she willing to admit it? That’s where it should start, because no mental health professional can really help someone, until they are willing to admit they have a problem, until they are willing to put the effort into working on themselves.

 

[eucharisteo]

I really don’t want to say this because it will come out bad no matter how I say it. But here it goes.

Friend, Something doesn’t sound right here. I wonder if maybe you have an inappropriate tendency to flirt with women and just haven’t learned to shut your mouth. Don’t talk to the ladies. Leave them out of your conversation. The only woman that should exist in your presence is your wife. Everyone else should bow to her, but don’t expect them. Read Ephesians 5… A woman, especially the one you marry, should be treated like a queen, a princess for all to respect. That doesn’t mean to act like a fool either. If she is a queen, then you are a king and also deserving of her respect and dignity. Treat each other with respect and according to Eph. 5 and you should have a strong Christian marriage.

I don’t know anything about your first marriage, but you stories triggered many questions in the back of my brain. It takes 2 people to mess up a relationship. That is always the case. Whether it was you being unable to assess her accurately or her being overly flirtatious to catch your attention, similar to the waitress you mentioned. I’m not a bad looking guy either. And I know what its like for women to be attracted to you. In fact, I always defer the tip to my wife so that she can make an appropriate decision on tipping in case the waitress steps over a boundary. But I know how to draw clear lines in the sand. And my wife is not so tempted to jump up like that to make a scene. It sounds like both you and your wife have serious insecurities. But that is not grounds for a divorce in my opinion. However, you must consider the constant threat of divorce as a sign that she may never have really wanted you for anything other than to keep you on your toes all the time at the end of a short leash. And to hear you tell the story you must be some hot looking dude for so many women to be drawn to you. In fact you sound so enticing I might just have to cross the line, leave my wife and come date you. But don’t count on it. I’ve been married over 20 years. And my wife just recently converted from a fundamental evangelical faith that believed all Catholics were hopelessly doomed to hell. She possessed many of the same “flaws” or really insecurities your wife does. It took every ounch of effort to show her how much I love her, no matter what. I’ve even sacrificed my career for her. No complaints because its what God wants, not what I want.

I think you need to seriously consider the reality of whether or not you have a real marriage because of all the signs. I grew up in an overly dramatic environment. My dad was equally as bad. And dad was the Catholic. You both need to pick a good neutral priest to talk to if you’re still together or considering getting back together.

I’m sorry, but something still doesn’t seem quite right. It takes 2 to mess up a marriage. Give and take. But only expect to give.

 

[TheAdvocate]

I’m sorry, but something still doesn’t seem quite right. It takes 2 to mess up a marriage. Give and take. But only expect to give.

It takes two. I agree. And I told her that. I said, “It takes two to tango. I’d even be happy to admit that 80% of the problem is me, and 20% you.” She replied, “I agree.” I said, “okay, what’s your 20%.” She said, “That I made a mistake in picking you!”

 

[royal_archer]

My friend, your response was very heartfelt. I suppose I should tell you more so get ready for a novel…
…
Anyway, if no one read this ridiculously long post, I understand. But if you did, YOU ROCK!!!

So now that she is out of the house, how are the logistics working? How is her housing getting paid, etc.?
I may be in this situation soon and am wondering how to handle it from a financial/ logistical point of view.

 

[TheAdvocate]

So now that she is out of the house, how are the logistics working? How is her housing getting paid, etc.?
I may be in this situation soon and am wondering how to handle it from a financial/ logistical point of view.

I am so very sorry to hear this. I understand, of course.

Well, she moved in with her a family member (but didn’t disclose who) – so her rent is free. We still have a joint checking account, but that doesn’t matter, since throughout our marriage, she was only bringing in on average about $300 bucks a month.

You see, she says that in her ethnic tradition, the man pays all the bills, while the woman, if she works, keeps the money for savings, anything extra for the kids, etc. The only bill she pays for is her student loan.

So I learned to pay all the bills. I don’t agree with it, but I did it for her to please her. She did an okay, but not terrific job with keeping the house clean. And I did help with chores when asked.

In your situation, you have to keep in mind that as soon as she moves out, and it leads to divorce, the courts will likely use the date she left as the date of separation. Then any money that you make since then is yours alone. But it might depend from state to state.

I’ll keep you in prayer.