M
MiserereMei25
Guest
I thought as Catholics we should feel comfortable laying hands on people and praying over them. Christian’s did this in the early church? I’m confused why this is an issue.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
C
cmscms
Guest
We all have crosses to bear. Your wife’s cross is physical pain. Perhaps your cross is to have to watch it while you are powerless to do anything. A lot of people here seem to think you should lay your hands on her. I am not going to tell you to do that because personally, I too have a problem with the charismatic movement.
Frankly, I don’t think the method we use to pray matters. If you use the traditional approach, God hears thoses prayers equally.
I guess my concern is: "what if you do lay your hands on her and it doesn’t work’. That is why I suspect your cross is to be as supportive as you can, and live with the fact your wife still suffers
Frankly, I don’t think the method we use to pray matters. If you use the traditional approach, God hears thoses prayers equally.
I guess my concern is: "what if you do lay your hands on her and it doesn’t work’. That is why I suspect your cross is to be as supportive as you can, and live with the fact your wife still suffers
Z
ZMystiCat
Guest
Yes, and to quote St. Augustine:Christian’s did this in the early church?
So maybe the Charismatics are the traditionalists here.What else is the laying on of hands, as the prayer over a man?
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
Charismaticism is not everyone’s spiritual cup of tea.
When you say she is becoming discouraged by her chronic pain, just keep your ears attuned. Sometimes the “name it and claim it” prosperity, health and wealth teachings from Protestant Charismaticism sneak into Catholic Charismaticism. That is a very dangerous teaching and it can lead to discouragement, then to doubt, then to full on despair. Because the teaching says if you have enough faith, if you do not “claim” or “speak into existince” bad things, you will be healthy. That becomes if you are NOT healthy it is your fault and your faith is just not good enough. It can be poison.
Maybe together do a study of Pope John Paul II’s beautiful explanation of the value of suffering together. Honestly, as a fellow chronic pain sufferer, this teaching has saved my life and saved me from bleak atheism (grew up in Charismatic Protestantism health and wealth junk).
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-p.../hf_jp-ii_apl_11021984_salvifici-doloris.html
A couple of other good books, Houselander’s “The Reed of God” and Fr Phillipe’s “Searching For and Maintaining Peace”.
Prayers for you!
When you say she is becoming discouraged by her chronic pain, just keep your ears attuned. Sometimes the “name it and claim it” prosperity, health and wealth teachings from Protestant Charismaticism sneak into Catholic Charismaticism. That is a very dangerous teaching and it can lead to discouragement, then to doubt, then to full on despair. Because the teaching says if you have enough faith, if you do not “claim” or “speak into existince” bad things, you will be healthy. That becomes if you are NOT healthy it is your fault and your faith is just not good enough. It can be poison.
Maybe together do a study of Pope John Paul II’s beautiful explanation of the value of suffering together. Honestly, as a fellow chronic pain sufferer, this teaching has saved my life and saved me from bleak atheism (grew up in Charismatic Protestantism health and wealth junk).
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-p.../hf_jp-ii_apl_11021984_salvifici-doloris.html
A couple of other good books, Houselander’s “The Reed of God” and Fr Phillipe’s “Searching For and Maintaining Peace”.
Prayers for you!
S
seeker_of_God
Guest
Thank you, but this is exactly the issue.Charismaticism is not everyone’s spiritual cup of tea.
When you say she is becoming discouraged by her chronic pain, just keep your ears attuned. Sometimes the “name it and claim it” prosperity, health and wealth teachings from Protestant Charismaticism sneak into Catholic Charismaticism. That is a very dangerous teaching and it can lead to discouragement, then to doubt, then to full on despair. Because the teaching says if you have enough faith, if you do not “claim” or “speak into existince” bad things, you will be healthy. That becomes if you are NOT healthy it is your fault and your faith is just not good enough. It can be poison.
Maybe together do a study of Pope John Paul II’s beautiful explanation of the value of suffering together. Honestly, as a fellow chronic pain sufferer, this teaching has saved my life and saved me from bleak atheism (grew up in Charismatic Protestantism health and wealth junk).
She really hates the Catholic teaching on redemptive suffering. I shared what I thought was a beautiful article written by Mother angelica on the dangers of faith healing, and she really disliked it.
This was the article: https://www.ewtn.com/library/mother/ma12.htm
She says it is always God’s will to heal us. And I replied that sometimes we’re called to offer our suffering.
To give more background, I’ve been totally blind since the age of 4. My wife has been visually impaired from birth, due to severe glaucoma. The chronic pain I speak of is eye pain.
Personally I have no desire to be healed. I trust it was part of God’s plan somehow, and it doesn’t bother me. My wife however deeply desires to regain her vision. It’s an understandable desire of course, but she also doesn’t want to accept that sometimes that’s not what we’re called to. I don’t know if she is or not, but we can only work with what we have…and sometimes—even often—suffering is reality. I personally feel the Catholic view of suffering makes it far more bearable and gives it meaning, but she’s become quite bitter about it.
Just some background that hopefully explains more what’s going on. I try to avoid the topic now because sometimes it can send her into a dark place, as this article did I linked above.
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
This breaks my heart, really it does. Perhaps you can find someone else she will speak to?
Here is a list of Saints/Blessed who were blind.
I have dwarfism, one of my patrons had dwarfism and was blind, Bl Margaret Castillo. For me, finding Bl Margaret and St John the Dwarf helped me to know that God did not heal those people, in fact, their physical disabilities helped them to grow in grace and in holiness.
I will pray for you and your wife every day, that your blindness may bring glory to God, that all of us misshapen vessels may show the world what it is to rejoice in suffering.
Here is a list of Saints/Blessed who were blind.
I have dwarfism, one of my patrons had dwarfism and was blind, Bl Margaret Castillo. For me, finding Bl Margaret and St John the Dwarf helped me to know that God did not heal those people, in fact, their physical disabilities helped them to grow in grace and in holiness.
I will pray for you and your wife every day, that your blindness may bring glory to God, that all of us misshapen vessels may show the world what it is to rejoice in suffering.
D
Dan_Defender
Guest
This situation brings to mind the advice from the Imitation of Christ: ‘Whatever the mind sees as good, ask and desire in fear of God and humility of heart. Above all, commit the whole matter to Me with true resignation, and say: “Lord, You know what is better for me; let this be done or that be done as You please. Grant what You will, as much as You will, when You will. Do with me as You know best, as will most please You, and will be for Your greater honor. Place me where You will and deal with me freely in all things.’
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
One more thing, what I would advise, when she asks you to pray over her, is to hold her hand and pray “Lord, please bring comfort and peace to my lovely bride. Wrap her in your love, and do your will in her mind and in her body. Remind us to praise you in all things.” Pray with her, make it short and sweet.
S
ServusDei1
Guest
Exactly what I was trying to say.
P
poche
Guest
Have you taken her to a doctor for pain medication?
M
Mary888
Guest
You can just hug her and pray. Would that be okay? While you two are married I don’t know why is such a big deal for you to pray for her while hugging her…
P
PapyrusDouay
Guest
Is this actually a thing?
D
Dorothy
Guest
For many years I went to a Day of Prayer once a month, when I lived up north. The priest was a Retreat Master for priests, nuns, and those who wanted to learn about a deeper prayer life.
Mass was said at these Days of Prayer, and two conferences were given on the teachings of the Carmelite Doctors of the Church on prayer; and he also taught about the charismatic gifts.
He also was a guide to those in charismatic renewal, as many of them were getting a lot of ideas that weren’t Catholic.
This is a website about Father Venard Poslusney, O. Carm.
http://advancedchristianity.com/
He would bless olive oil, salt, and water that we brought to the gatherings. I never once heard him say to drink the holy water. Could that be an abuse of a sacramental?
Many spiritual, emotional, and physical healings happened at these Days of Prayer.
Mass was said at these Days of Prayer, and two conferences were given on the teachings of the Carmelite Doctors of the Church on prayer; and he also taught about the charismatic gifts.
He also was a guide to those in charismatic renewal, as many of them were getting a lot of ideas that weren’t Catholic.
This is a website about Father Venard Poslusney, O. Carm.
http://advancedchristianity.com/
He would bless olive oil, salt, and water that we brought to the gatherings. I never once heard him say to drink the holy water. Could that be an abuse of a sacramental?
Many spiritual, emotional, and physical healings happened at these Days of Prayer.
Last edited:
D
DisorientingSneeze
Guest
I have found myself recently amidst people who really pray spontaneously from the heart aloud quite well. I find the thought of that pretty intimidating, but it is becoming less so through praying with the scriptures.
Some of these friends and I will gather, pray to the Holy Spirit, read the Gospel, reflect aloud and then one person takes everything said and in writing turns everyone’s thoughts into a beautiful prayer.
I was tasked with being the writer just once, but I can see how practice in writing could translate into eventual comfort in spontaneously praying aloud. Sort of like learning a language.
This is something I’m hoping to start doing with my family. I don’t think it kills any traditionalist street cred, but maybe I’m misunderstanding what your wife is asking of you.
Some of these friends and I will gather, pray to the Holy Spirit, read the Gospel, reflect aloud and then one person takes everything said and in writing turns everyone’s thoughts into a beautiful prayer.
I was tasked with being the writer just once, but I can see how practice in writing could translate into eventual comfort in spontaneously praying aloud. Sort of like learning a language.
This is something I’m hoping to start doing with my family. I don’t think it kills any traditionalist street cred, but maybe I’m misunderstanding what your wife is asking of you.
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
Please, start a new thread to debate the Charismatic movement. Let’s not divert from a man who wants to love and help his wife. Please.
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
One can pray extemperaneously and not be in the Charismatic movement. It is one type of prayer that does sometimes get overlooked in Catholic piety. Heck, they always ask me to lead prayer if there is not a priest around because I “know how” to pray “off the cuff”.
U
Uriel1
Guest
Find a “healing Mass” in your diocese and take her there; be open minded, and God bless
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
As I understand, the OP’s wife has been to many healing services, I cannot fathom she has been Charismatic for any time and NOT been to a “healing mass”.
A wise priest once reminded a parishioner “every mass is a healing mass”. This is something that we can forget when caught up in the “health and wealth” teachings. The Eucharist is the source and summit of our lives. The Sacraments of Healing ARE the Eucharist, Confession and Anointing. Anointing is not greater than the Eucharist or Confession.
At every Mass, we have either gone to Confession for forgiveness of grave & venial of sins prior OR we have our venial sins forgiven at three different points during Mass! When we prayerfully make use of Holy Water as we enter the Church, during the Penitential Act in Mass and when we receive the Eucharist. We ARE healed at every Mass.
What is difficult to realize is that the healing of our soul is what is of primary, eternal, importance. Some misguided teachers of the prosperity teachings bend and twist the Scriptures when the speak of healing in order to make people feel that their physical healing is “already made manifest” that the only thing holding it back is some fault or weakness on my part. I have not enough faith, I have not gone to the right faith healer, I have not “claimed my healing”, I have not been to the right healing Mass or healing Convention.
As a child, I was taken to every great faith healer in this country. I have been to Kathryn Kuhlman to Kenneth Copeland, from the 700 Club to PTL Club with Jim & Tammy Faye and every single unknown healer in between. By the time I was a teenager, I had no faith (kept this inside so not to hurt my parents) because if I had not been healed by now, there was no such thing. Finally I read my way into the Church.
Continued
A wise priest once reminded a parishioner “every mass is a healing mass”. This is something that we can forget when caught up in the “health and wealth” teachings. The Eucharist is the source and summit of our lives. The Sacraments of Healing ARE the Eucharist, Confession and Anointing. Anointing is not greater than the Eucharist or Confession.
At every Mass, we have either gone to Confession for forgiveness of grave & venial of sins prior OR we have our venial sins forgiven at three different points during Mass! When we prayerfully make use of Holy Water as we enter the Church, during the Penitential Act in Mass and when we receive the Eucharist. We ARE healed at every Mass.
What is difficult to realize is that the healing of our soul is what is of primary, eternal, importance. Some misguided teachers of the prosperity teachings bend and twist the Scriptures when the speak of healing in order to make people feel that their physical healing is “already made manifest” that the only thing holding it back is some fault or weakness on my part. I have not enough faith, I have not gone to the right faith healer, I have not “claimed my healing”, I have not been to the right healing Mass or healing Convention.
As a child, I was taken to every great faith healer in this country. I have been to Kathryn Kuhlman to Kenneth Copeland, from the 700 Club to PTL Club with Jim & Tammy Faye and every single unknown healer in between. By the time I was a teenager, I had no faith (kept this inside so not to hurt my parents) because if I had not been healed by now, there was no such thing. Finally I read my way into the Church.
Continued
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
Within a year, I happened upon Charismatic Renewal. The pairsh simply advertised it as a Mission with a visiting priest, this priest and his “helper” came to talk to the CCD classes and my son was so excited that we came back on Sunday evening for the Mission.
Low and behold, it was a healing Mass. (note to parish organizers, be up front about Charismatic events, you do not have to sneak them in on people). I gave it a try, because maybe this was the authentic thing, ya know/ When it was the same thing just with a priest and his lady helper, I was very disappointed.
Still, have many friends who are in the Renewal, as stated before I have attended with them and I have never once spoke in tongues (much to the chagrin of everyone from those early famous healers to the lady who prayed over me at the State Renewal Conference 10 years ago).
The very last healing mass I ever attended was in town. I’d assisted in the publicity and coordination, was there as staff to close up the building, help with things, etc.
The lines were VERY long and it was late. The priest took the mic and asked how many were there to find healing for a child, either if the child was present or if they were there in place of a child. Many hands were raised.
The priest prayed in tongues and then said “all of you, your children are healed, there is no need to wait in line. Go home, the children are made well and whole.”
I personally knew some of these families, kids with incurable brain cancer or fatal heart defects, these people went home walking on air. Later, one of the families very vocally denounced the Faith, did not even give their child a funeral Mass. The others have become spotty with Mass attendance, are not “involved” any more.
So, be very careful with the advice to just go find a healing mass. Far more important to find the truth that physical miracles of healing are rare, God uses them for a specific purpose, and that most of us will carry our deformities and our illnesses in this life. We have to embrace our cross, pray “not my will but Thine be done”, trust that God loves us more than we love ourselves and learn to take more care for the healing of our soul.
Low and behold, it was a healing Mass. (note to parish organizers, be up front about Charismatic events, you do not have to sneak them in on people). I gave it a try, because maybe this was the authentic thing, ya know/ When it was the same thing just with a priest and his lady helper, I was very disappointed.
Still, have many friends who are in the Renewal, as stated before I have attended with them and I have never once spoke in tongues (much to the chagrin of everyone from those early famous healers to the lady who prayed over me at the State Renewal Conference 10 years ago).
The very last healing mass I ever attended was in town. I’d assisted in the publicity and coordination, was there as staff to close up the building, help with things, etc.
The lines were VERY long and it was late. The priest took the mic and asked how many were there to find healing for a child, either if the child was present or if they were there in place of a child. Many hands were raised.
The priest prayed in tongues and then said “all of you, your children are healed, there is no need to wait in line. Go home, the children are made well and whole.”
I personally knew some of these families, kids with incurable brain cancer or fatal heart defects, these people went home walking on air. Later, one of the families very vocally denounced the Faith, did not even give their child a funeral Mass. The others have become spotty with Mass attendance, are not “involved” any more.
So, be very careful with the advice to just go find a healing mass. Far more important to find the truth that physical miracles of healing are rare, God uses them for a specific purpose, and that most of us will carry our deformities and our illnesses in this life. We have to embrace our cross, pray “not my will but Thine be done”, trust that God loves us more than we love ourselves and learn to take more care for the healing of our soul.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.