Mystery of Faith in Latin

  • Thread starter Thread starter Elizium23
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
E

Elizium23

Guest
A few weeks ago, our pastor asked the choir to prepare a Latin version of the Mystery of Faith to replace the English setting we have been using for some time. I was quite happy about this because, as a Latin chant, it will survive the new translation and it is one more way to give “pride of place” to Gregorian chant in the liturgy.

So we rehearsed it a few times and put it on the back burner until the celebrant was ready to switch. Then we heard back from our pastor, who said he had talked to a knowledgeable liturgist. This liturgist had told him that we could not sing this part in Latin, or the entire Eucharistic Prayer would have to be in Latin too. That we could only select and use one language for the Eucharistic Prayer. Therefore he cancelled our use of the new Latin chant.

I thought this was an extremely odd interpretation, given that we already chant the Sanctus in Latin. And frequently I hear EPs done in bilingual English/Spanish settings. I was not aware of any requirement to keep the language the same or to keep Latin chant out of it in this manner.

Any thoughts?
 
Elizium23 said:
A few weeks ago, our pastor asked the choir to prepare a Latin version of the Mystery of Faith to replace the English setting we have been using for some time. I was quite happy about this because, as a Latin chant, it will survive the new translation and it is one more way to give “pride of place” to Gregorian chant in the liturgy.

So we rehearsed it a few times and put it on the back burner until the celebrant was ready to switch. Then we heard back from our pastor, who said he had talked to a knowledgeable liturgist. This liturgist had told him that we could not sing this part in Latin, or the entire Eucharistic Prayer would have to be in Latin too. That we could only select and use one language for the Eucharistic Prayer. Therefore he cancelled our use of the new Latin chant.

I thought this was an extremely odd interpretation, given that we already chant the Sanctus in Latin. And frequently I hear EPs done in bilingual English/Spanish settings. I was not aware of any requirement to keep the language the same or to keep Latin chant out of it in this manner.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
[edited] It is “magister dixit”, the Master Spoke, all is finished…

[edited]

Was the Liturgist afraid that God would not be able to swtich languages?

In Fatima, Portugal, the liturgy sometimes is said in 10/12 languages.

The mistake of your Parish Pries was to ask the dumb question in the first place, so he got a dumb answer.

Cheers,👍
 
Elizium23 said:
Then we heard back from our pastor, who said he had talked to a knowledgeable liturgist. This liturgist had told him that we could not sing this part in Latin, or the entire Eucharistic Prayer would have to be in Latin too. That we could only select and use one language for the Eucharistic Prayer. Therefore he cancelled our use of the new Latin chant. I thought this was an extremely odd interpretation, given that we already chant the Sanctus in Latin. And frequently I hear EPs done in bilingual English/Spanish settings.
Click to expand...
I would politely press your pastor to provide the documentation or argumentation supplied by the knowledgeable liturgist. The Church explicitly recommends the use of Latin for the ordinary (unchanging parts of the Mass), and the acclamations in the middle of the Eucharistic Prayer are just as much part of the ordinary as the Sanctus is!
 
Elizium23 said:
I thought this was an extremely odd interpretation, given that we already chant the Sanctus in Latin. And frequently I hear EPs done in bilingual English/Spanish settings. I was not aware of any requirement to keep the language the same or to keep Latin chant out of it in this manner.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
I agree with your thoughts.
In April 1974 Pope Paul VI sent to every bishop in the world a booklet of some of the simplest selections of Gregorian Chant, much of it drawn from the Graduale Romanum. This booklet, called Jubilate Deo, was intended as a “minimum repertoire of Gregorian chant”. It is, in other words, an official Latin “core repertoire” for the Roman Rite. It was prepared, the Pope said, in order “to make it easier for Christians to achieve unity and spiritual harmony with their brothers and with the living tradition of the past. Hence it is that those who are trying to improve the quality of congregational singing cannot refuse Gregorian chant the place which is due to it” (Voluntati Obsequens).
Click to expand...
Pope Paul VI gave permission for the selections in Jubilate Deo to be freely reprinted. The booklet was accompanied by a letter in which the Holy Father made this request of the bishops:
Click to expand...
“Would you therefore, in collaboration with the competent diocesan and national agencies for the liturgy, sacred music and catechetics, decide on the best ways of teaching the faithful the Latin chants of Jubilate Deo and of having them sing them…. You will thus be performing a new service for the Church in the domain of liturgical renewal” (Voluntati Obsequens).
Click to expand...
Jubilate Deo contains simple chant settings in Latin of the parts of the Ordinary of the Mass: Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Memorial Acclamation, Agnus Dei. It also provides musical settings for the dialogues between priest and people, such as before the Preface, and the Ite Missa est, the response to the Prayer of the Faithful, and others.
Click to expand...
An, expanded edition of Jubilate Deo was later issued by the Congregation for Divine Worship in 1987.
…
Click to expand...
adoremus.org/JubilateDeo.html
 
japhy said:
I would politely press your pastor to provide the documentation or argumentation supplied by the knowledgeable liturgist. The Church explicitly recommends the use of Latin for the ordinary (unchanging parts of the Mass), and the acclamations in the middle of the Eucharistic Prayer are just as much part of the ordinary as the Sanctus is!
Click to expand...
It seems reasonable to me that the entire Eucharistic Prayer could be considered a single block that must be used entirely in one language, but it seems just as reasonable that the mystery of faith could be treated separately. What seems unreasonable would be switching between languages mid-sentence or even mid-paragraph. I don’t accept your broad implication that just because a word or sentence or passage is part of the ordinary, one can speak just that part in another language.

We’ve discussed that issue before, but I’m not aware of any clear guidance from the Church.
 
Elizium23 said:
A few weeks ago, our pastor asked the choir to prepare a Latin version of the Mystery of Faith to replace the English setting we have been using for some time. I was quite happy about this because, as a Latin chant, it will survive the new translation and it is one more way to give “pride of place” to Gregorian chant in the liturgy.
Click to expand...
What was the Latin text you were going to sing?
 
Elizium23 said:
A few So we rehearsed it a few times and put it on the back burner until the celebrant was ready to switch. Then we heard back from our pastor, who said he had talked to a knowledgeable liturgist. This liturgist had told him that we could not sing this part in Latin, or the entire Eucharistic Prayer would have to be in Latin too. That we could only select and use one language for the Eucharistic Prayer. Therefore he cancelled our use of the new Latin chant.

I ?
Click to expand...
news to me but I am no expert
we (congregation) chant the sanctus, hosanna and the dialogue just before it, mortem tuam, pater noster, agnus dei in Latin during Advent and Lent here, and Eucharistic prayer is either English or Spanish depending.
 
Digitonomy said:
It seems reasonable to me that the entire Eucharistic Prayer could be considered a single block that must be used entirely in one language…
Click to expand...
The Eucharistic Prayer begins with the Preface dialogue, continues with the Preface, the Sanctus, the Canon (or whatever other prayer is used) with the acclamation in the middle, the Doxology, and the Amen.

If the Dialogue, the Sanctus, or the Doxology can be prayed in a different language from the rest of the Eucharistic Prayer, it stands to reason that the acclamation could be as well.
 
ProVobis said:
Jubilate Deo contains simple chant settings in Latin of the parts of the Ordinary of the Mass: Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Memorial Acclamation, Agnus Dei. It also provides musical settings for the dialogues between priest and people, such as before the Preface, and the Ite Missa est, the response to the Prayer of the Faithful, and others.
Click to expand...
Well that certainly clinches it, no? Jubilate Deo’s purpose was Latin chant in a vernacular Mass, and it includes the Memorial Acclamation.
 
In our Parish the priest chants in English the preface, and the choir and the people sing the Sanctus in Latin. Also I remember Mass where the Canon was read Latin, the priest chated the words Mysterium fidei in Latin and the acclamation in English.

The opinion of the knowledgeable Liturgist probably is based in some sentences of the Universae Ecclaesiae, like
  1. As foreseen by article 6 of the Motu Proprio “Summorum Pontificum”, the
    readings of the Holy Mass of the Missal of 1962 can be proclaimed either
    solely in the Latin language, or in Latin followed by the vernacular or, in
    Low Masses, solely in the vernacular.
Click to expand...
  1. Art. 9 § 3 of the Motu Proprio “Summorum Pontificum” gives clerics
    the faculty to use the Breviarium Romanum in effect in 1962, which is to be
    prayed **entirely and in the Latin **language.
Click to expand...
I believe the wise thing is to ask the diocese about the case. The Ordinary is the authority in such questions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top