Mystics?

  • Thread starter Thread starter starrs0
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
starrs0:
What is meant when someone is reffered to as a mystic?
It is still one of the best commentaries on the matter even if it is almost 100 years since she wrote the book.

ccel.org/ccel/underhill/mysticism.iii.i.html

I hope you enjoy it as much as I did as coming from a person who understood the the mystics/contemplative come from the richness of humanity and are not seperate or above humanity.

Thanks for reminding me of that work which is a good introduction to the heroes of our Christian faith.
 
40.png
BLB_Oregon:
Although an adult ought to be open to every sort of prayer, even contemplative prayer (mental prayer) is not a gift not given to all. It doesn’t mean a person is less holy if they find contemplative prayer a dry experience.
Did you read the quote from St Terese, which is my signature?

Did you know that Mother Theresa went 40 years without consolation?

What you feel has nothing to do with the quality of your prayer.
 
40.png
Mysty101:
Did you read the quote from St Terese, which is my signature?

Did you know that Mother Theresa went 40 years without consolation?

What you feel has nothing to do with the quality of your prayer.
Yours in Jesus, Mary and Joseph

John
 
40.png
Mysty101:
Did you read the quote from St Terese, which is my signature?

Did you know that Mother Theresa went 40 years without consolation?

What you feel has nothing to do with the quality of your prayer.
Exactly. I mean not that mysticism is all about feelings, but that aridity in prayer seems to be something endured by many (if not all) of the great saints. According to St. Theresa of Avila, it is not just a periodic thing, either… some just aren’t given the gift. What tremendous trust! It brings to mind Jesus’ words to Thomas: “Blessed are those who have not seen, but still believe.”

I’m not sure that mysticism and a felt consolation are even the same thing. Mysticism is an understanding of God that cannot be put fully into words, but I don’t think that means it is primarily emotional. I understand it to mean that we are granted an understanding or appreciation of God that is beyond our small ability to communicate. There is to us a fundamental aspect–perhaps the fundamental aspect–that is neither emotion nor thought. I guess I mean it is essence, or some would say soul.
 
40.png
dbqcj:
Interesting thread. As a former Pastor once said to me, “The more he learns about God, the more he finds he doesn’t know.”
God Bless, dbqcj
This is very true, that is why it will take eternity in the Beatific Vision to love and honour, glorify and know God, we know as much as is required for faith, by gift of pure grace and nothing else allows this, but God Himself offering this insight into Himself …pure gift…all of it… and when this gift is given, to the one who it is revealed to, is not always sure what it means nor the significance or understanding of it, but that it is of God. It always impacts upon the mystics life in such a way as that soul is transformed. The mystic’s soul undergoes a purging and a purification, that allows a revelation of the mysteries of our hidden God.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
40.png
BLB_Oregon:
I’m not sure that mysticism and a felt consolation are even the same thing.
They are absolutely not—(Dark Night of the Soul)

My post was in response to
Although an adult ought to be open to every sort of prayer, even contemplative prayer (mental prayer) is not a gift not given to all. It doesn’t mean a person is less holy if they find contemplative prayer a dry experience.
which was in response to
*
In the book"The Mystic" by David Torkington (which was the book studied for this course) the three stages of prayer are described
Juvenile Prayer which is memorized Prayer
Adolescent prayer which is the Charismatic enthusiastic high praise.
Adult prayer which is the Contempletive prayer.

*
My comments were to emphesize that I was speaking of types of prayer, not evaluating one with the other or making any assessment of the quality of any.
 
John Russell Jr:
Hi Mysty101,
Indeed you are right. The mystics go through very severe trials. Far greater than most can imagine. It is not all consolations, ecstasies etc. They may suffer so much in the dark night of the soul and for so long that death would be a relief.]

Yours in Jesus, Mary and Joseph

John
This is also very true, because a contemplative soul cannot reach a mystical state of union with God without first being ‘tested in perseverance and fortitude’, it is not for the weak or faint of heart, it is not for the persuit of the self, to console the self with, so that the soul is gratified and nourished, it is for the glory of God and nothing else and as such is pure gift from God.

A person cannot strive to be a mystic, it only comes from God as pure gift, contemplation is a gift and nothing else. Contemplation is not meditation ( where a person meditates on the life of Christ and of the depth and width of God and comes to knowledge and understanding of God and therefore as a result deepens in spirituality) contemplation is the ‘knowing’ that is given as gift in silence by God, it is an accord in the contemplative soul , that just knows of God.

In fact the soul need not DO anything, the soul is crafted by the Lord in these times and the soul just purely consents to this, just desires union with God, the soul just remains still and in acceptance of God’s will and then the Lord works within the soul, leading it to Him in such a way that is silent and unnoticeable, until at some point the noticeable and manifest works of God are apparent.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
40.png
Teresa9:
This is very true, that is why it will take eternity in the Beatific Vision to love and honour, glorify and know God, we know as much as is required for faith, by gift of pure grace and nothing else allows this, but God Himself offering this insight into Himself …pure gift…all of it… and when this gift is given, to the one who it is revealed to, is not always sure what it means nor the significance or understanding of it, but that it is of God. It always impacts upon the mystics life in such a way as that soul is transformed. The mystic’s soul undergoes a purging and a purification, that allows a revelation of the mysteries of our hidden God.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
To be a mystic or a contemplative is not so much in the ability to suffer or go through trials but to forge a more balanced connection between our individual life and the great Eternal Life encompassing it.Those who found that road have known it simultaneously as a gift and a curse and along the Way there is that great Divine Insight which many have seen and few have expressed eloquently.

For mystics, the Beatific Vision is not an end in Itself however for those who have known its fleeting passing such as Dante,we see how imperfect we truly are in our short lives before the Eternal .

Paradiso ; Canto XXXIII

O Light Supreme, that dost so far uplift thee
From the conceits of mortals, to my mind
Of what thou didst appear re-lend a little,

And make my tongue of so great puissance,
That but a single sparkle of thy glory
It may bequeath unto the future people;

For by returning to my memory somewhat,
And by a little sounding in these verses,
More of thy victory shall be conceived!

I think the keenness of the living ray
Which I endured would have bewildered me,
If but mine eyes had been averted from it;

And I remember that I was more bold
On this account to bear, so that I joined
My aspect with the Glory Infinite.

O grace abundant, by which I presumed
To fix my sight upon the Light Eternal,
So that the seeing I consumed therein!

I saw that in its depth far down is lying
Bound up with love together in one volume,
What through the universe in leaves is scattered;

Substance, and accident, and their operations,
All interfused together in such wise
That what I speak of is one simple light.

The universal fashion of this knot
Methinks I saw, since more abundantly
In saying this I feel that I rejoice.

O how all speech is feeble and falls short
Of my conceit, and this to what I saw
Is such, 'tis not enough to call it little!

O Light Eternal, sole in thyself that dwellest,
Sole knowest thyself, and, known unto thyself
And knowing, lovest and smilest on thyself!

That circulation, which being thus conceived
Appeared in thee as a reflected light,
When somewhat contemplated by mine eyes,

Within itself, of its own very colour
Seemed to me painted with our effigy,
Wherefore my sight was all absorbed therein.

As the geometrician, who endeavours
To square the circle, and discovers not,
By taking thought, the principle he wants,

Even such was I at that new apparition;
I wished to see how the image to the circle
Conformed itself, and how it there finds place;

But my own wings were not enough for this,
Had it not been that then my mind there smote
A flash of lightning, wherein came its wish.

Here vigour failed the lofty fantasy:
But now was turning my desire and will,
Even as a wheel that equally is moved,

The Love which moves the sun and the other stars.

Dante
 
Dear friend

Thank you for taking the time to type out that beautiful poem. I think we are saying the same thing here, just using different words.

With reference to the Beatific Vision, it will take all of eternity to fully understand God and worship Him, the mystic glimpses God without actually doing anything themselves, it is pure gift.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
40.png
oriel36:
To be a mystic or a contemplative is not so much in the ability to suffer or go through trials but to forge a more balanced connection between our individual life and the great Eternal Life encompassing it.
It is nothing a person does----Striving for holiness is a wonderful thing, but there is nothing anyone can do to become a Mystic. This is truly a gift from God and only He knows who or why.

There have been many wonderful and holy Saints who were not Mystics–this is solely up to God
 
40.png
Mysty101:
My comments were to emphesize that I was speaking of types of prayer, not evaluating one with the other or making any assessment of the quality of any.
Oh, no, I meant to agree with you. You’re absolutely right. My blathering on was meant in way of expanding on that… and considering how little direct knowledge I have of the subject, I’ve no doubt blathered quite enough!
 
40.png
BLB_Oregon:
Oh, no, I meant to agree with you. You’re absolutely right. My blathering on was meant in way of expanding on that… and considering how little direct knowledge I have of the subject, I’ve no doubt blathered quite enough!
And I am sorry if it apeared that I was doing anything other than explaining myself. None of us know very much about this subject—It is so far above us, and we can only strive for a small glimpse.
 
Dear friends

It would seem that God would choose the most unlikely candidate for His graces and His graces are totally lost on this soul. The soul is usually striving for holiness , yes…but a soul that is most unexpected by those who think they know who should deserve the graces of God, He usually chooses the poor who are happy to be poor, or He chooses those who will happily leave all their riches behind them for Him. why? because they are happy with their lot accorded by God Himself. ‘This is your lot’

He chooses those who He can raise above what is natural, to the supernatural , because those who close their hearts to His ways are those who prefer the comfort of the natural, of obtaining and keeping things…of material things, of approval of the world and their peers, of not seeming to be different and of not rocking the boat.

He chooses the soul that is able to suffer in many ways , in their hearts, in their body and in their spirit, because mysticism requires all of these. Pain of all parts of humanity is required, because in suffering is much glorification in endurance of faith in God. Only in this, in the fresh garden and the desert do we truly experience God, God is in all places, if we allow our hearts to accord with Him, no place is forsaken. Even the place of no consolation is full of God, though we do not feel it, He is there and it is this knowing that is of mysticism…just the ‘knowing’ of God.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Does anyone have any information or knowledge on Margery Kempe? I am in an english class concerning women writers in the middle ages. Margery writes on her visions and claims that God the father proposes a spiritual marriage to her. My class believes she is crazy. I am not sure what I think. Her writings seem rather focused in some cases on herself and not on Christ. For example Jesus tells her that she is His favored daughter, He tells her she will spend no time in purgatory and He seems to spend a lot of time praising her than vice-versa. I’m curious as to what the Catholic Church thinks of Margery. She’s not a saint but are her visions recognized by the Church? Does anyone have any information on her that is based on the Church’s view? I have only found information on her that is secular. Thanks so much!!

Michelle 🙂
 
40.png
Teresa9:
Dear friends

It would seem that God would choose the most unlikely candidate for His graces and His graces are totally lost on this soul. The soul is usually striving for holiness , yes…but a soul that is most unexpected by those who think they know who should deserve the graces of God, He usually chooses the poor who are happy to be poor, or He chooses those who will happily leave all their riches behind them for Him. why? because they are happy with their lot accorded by God Himself. ‘This is your lot’

He chooses those who He can raise above what is natural, to the supernatural , because those who close their hearts to His ways are those who prefer the comfort of the natural, of obtaining and keeping things…of material things, of approval of the world and their peers, of not seeming to be different and of not rocking the boat.

He chooses the soul that is able to suffer in many ways , in their hearts, in their body and in their spirit, because mysticism requires all of these. Pain of all parts of humanity is required, because in suffering is much glorification in endurance of faith in God. Only in this, in the fresh garden and the desert do we truly experience God, God is in all places, if we allow our hearts to accord with Him, no place is forsaken. Even the place of no consolation is full of God, though we do not feel it, He is there and it is this knowing that is of mysticism…just the ‘knowing’ of God.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
Unfortunately even the exquisite Christian Way is packaged in such a way that makes people hesitate to approach the experiences found in the lives of our contemplative heroes.

The Christian experience of St Paul or St Francis is the ability to glory in humiliation and indignity and turn these things to our advantage for only when our human nature suffers do we know what Divine Will is.No doubt that we all know people who know hardship with great grace and little fuss and this is what makes a mystic no less than a saint.

The great spirit of St Francis knew it as a celebration which is why the Peace Prayer takes on a whole knew meaning when considered that it takes away all self-centred concern and loves even when it is hated,understands when it is truly misunderstood and all those things which Christ knew.

O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console,
to be understood as to understand,
to be loved as to love.

For it is in giving that we receive.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned.
It is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
 
40.png
AlanFromWichita:
Teresa,

I loved your answer. It was so right on. I’ve always believed that “mystic” was kind of a quantitative term like “faithful” so it isn’t a matter of who is or isn’t a “mystic,” but where each person is in his/her mystical relationship with God.
 
40.png
oriel36:
Unfortunately even the exquisite Christian Way is packaged in such a way that makes people hesitate to approach the experiences found in the lives of our contemplative heroes.

The Christian experience of St Paul or St Francis is the ability to glory in humiliation and indignity and turn these things to our advantage for only when our human nature suffers do we know what Divine Will is.No doubt that we all know people who know hardship with great grace and little fuss and this is what makes a mystic no less than a saint.

The great spirit of St Francis knew it as a celebration which is why the Peace Prayer takes on a whole knew meaning when considered that it takes away all self-centred concern and loves even when it is hated,understands when it is truly misunderstood and all those things which Christ knew.

O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console,
to be understood as to understand,
to be loved as to love.

For it is in giving that we receive.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned.
It is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
Dear friend

Beautiful and absolutely correct

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Last night I went to a healing mass where there was a modern day mystic named Alan Ames. Just before the healing service I went to confession, repented for my sins, and told the priest that I was pg with my second child. The priest kindly said to me to name my unborn child Joseph Michael if it were to be a boy. Joseph is my father’s name and Michael is my husband’s name. During the service, while waiting for Mr. Ames to approach me and “do his thing”, I felt my baby strongly moving in my womb. The holy spirit touched both me and my unborn child in ways that are unimaginable. It was like receiving the body and blood of Jesus magnified 10 fold. What a wonderous experience…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top