MYTH BUSTING: attending other churches

[on_the_hill]

According to the 1917 Code of Canon Laws, it was expressly FORBIDDEN to do so and before that there were other prohibitions on the same.

Has the Code of Canon Laws been amended since then, and if so, has the law changed?

Martyrs were made in England of folks who refused to attend the Queen’s Protestant Services. Catholic Blood was shed over this issue. It is no small matter. Make up you own mind.

Glenda

I agree martyrdom is no small matter. However, it may not be necessary to be martyred over this in 2014.

 

[estesbob]

The Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, in its 1993 Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism, encourages such participation:

In liturgical celebrations taking place in other churches and ecclesial communities, Catholics are encouraged to take part in the psalms, responses, hymns and common actions of the church in which they are guests. If invited by their hosts, they may read a lesson or preach (no. 118).

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_25031993_principles-and-norms-on-ecumenism_en.html

 

[Julianna]

The Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, in its 1993 Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism, encourages such participation:

In liturgical celebrations taking place in other churches and ecclesial communities, Catholics are encouraged to take part in the psalms, responses, hymns and common actions of the church in which they are guests. If invited by their hosts, they may read a lesson or preach (no. 118).

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_25031993_principles-and-norms-on-ecumenism_en.html

Wow! Mind blown. I knew the site Glenda was on is hokum.

 

[glendab]

Hello Runningdude.

That is your prerogative, but that is not the teaching of the church.

So, Fr. Levis from EWTN doesn’t teach according to the Church? But that alas is really only your opinion. And according to you, neither does Michelle Arnold, who happens to be a Catholic Answers Apologist. Okie dokie. Just checking. What church’s teaching were you looking for?

Glenda

 

[POJIUJH]

Comparing another Christian service to satanic service is to follow the will of Satan who promotes division.

I attend Protestant services because my wife is Protestant.

Over the years I have found that worshiping together strengthens the marriage.

Over the years, I have also learned what people can be safely ignored.

It is safe to ignore people who spread division and meet the criteria for a Pharisee noted above.

It is not safe to ignore true religious authority I personally consult. And it is not safe to ignore people who make a real effort to serve the suffering.

Protestantism created division. It divided the body of Christ. If satan promotes division, and to follow this division means promoting his will, then to follow protestantism means to promote satan.

The Pharisees loved the limelight, they loved condemning people unnecessarily, they didn’t live by the truth nor promote orthodoxy, they were the liberals of their day.

I have only mentioned love for God and the truth He gives us, and what I will stand by as an objectively greater way to convince misled souls to return to the true faith than to pretend that the faith doesn’t matter.

You have said that I am doing the will of satan by saying this, that I am a pharisee, by whatever understanding you have of them, that I am best to be ignored, and that I ought to forget this and listen to people who serve the suffering.

Dedo, you’ve already bought into religious indifferentism. Has this been caused by your association with false Christian churches? I can’t pass that call, I want you to think very carefully and honestly about that. The internet is tone deaf, so don’t read me in a snide tone when I say this, I am being sincere and serious, think about this. There is only one truth. Your wife is still not Catholic. For the sake of your soul and hers, get her into the true Church.

This is a quote from Pope Saint Pius X (I am not in any way affiliated with the SSPX, Pope Saint Pius is a Catholic Saint and Pope believe it or not)

“Is it permitted for Christians to be present at, or to take part in, conventions, gatherings, meetings, or societies of non-Catholics which aim to associate together under a single agreement everyone who, in any way, lays claim to the name of Christian? In the negative! …] It is clear, therefore, why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics. There is only one way in which the unity of Christians may be fostered, and that is by furthering the return to the one true Church of Christ for those who are separated from her.”

The Church has no dogmatic rule on this situation. It only has laws that apply for the years that they apply, and for a very long time the law was different than it is now, it actually prohibited these gatherings, so we can’t appeal to authority on matters that are fallible and non-dogmatic, we have to appeal to reason, and we will have to admit, that there was likely a very good reason that inter-faith worship was discouraged for close to 2000 years, and it might have something to say with regards to some of the problems we are facing in the Church today.

Any honest Christian will be more convinced by someone who refuses something out of love for God. If God is really the object of their love then this will convince them. Giving them the possibility of interpreting protestants and Catholics as just people of different subjective opinions would only run the risk of making them worse.

 

[Julianna]

Hello Runningdude.

So, Fr. Levis from EWTN doesn’t teach according to the Church? But that alas is really only your opinion. And according to you, neither does Michelle Arnold, who happens to be a Catholic Answers Apologist. Okie dokie. Just checking. What church’s teaching were you looking for?

Glenda

Here’s the deal…America is a great country…we get to pick and choose… YOU choose not to attend Protestant services and base your reasoning on what the Radio website tells you. With that said, you have been quoted Church teaching that not only says it’s ok (as long as you go to mass first), and adds…it is not a sin.

As an “I can think for myself” kind of person. I embrace the ecumenicism that the Catholic Church actually participates with. Have you ever heard of LARC? Lutheran, Anglican, and Roman Catholic? It is an ecumenical organization. Is that sinning?

The “guilting by fear” days in the Catholic Church have been gone for decades. We don’t live in a fish bowl.

 

[Julianna]

I don’t know why you would want to.

Remember that these aren’t just houses of different opinion, Our Lord’s heart grieves for these people, and all error is abhorrent to Him, even if by chance they didn’t know better.

I mean, allow me to exaggerate, only to prove a point. Would you go to a satanist service to be present when they desecrate a Cosecrated Host?

Would you go because it would be impolite not to? Not at all. Would you go because you aren’t intending to participate, but just be present? I don’t think you would. Would you go so as to ecumenically encourage them to come to a Catholic Church? Surely not, because the lack of care for God’s offence that you would show by being present would not encourage the person to attend Mass, your witness to them would be that you “don’t consider God to be worth caring about”.

Protestants aren’t as bad as satanists, but like satanists, they also began out of disobedience. The speaker may or may not be a convicted heretic (that is, by choice and therefore sinning) but their preaching will still be mostly un-Christian. Even if they teach things that are 90% orthodox, they are still 100% false, just as a 99.9% truth is a 100% lie.

Add into the mix that you will be unlikely to be able to pick out every error that they make, and run the risk of inheriting some of this false teaching.

I think just about any honest Christian will be more convinced by someone who refuses something out of love for God. If God is really the object of their love then this will convince them. Anyone who doesn’t take Christianity seriously won’t be convinced by this, because they won’t be convinced by anything, if they don’t care. Giving them the possibility of interpreting protestants and Catholics as just people of different subjective opinions would only run the risk of making them worse.

Funny thing is, Protestants say that about Catholics as well.

Protestants says that about Catholics too.

are you kidding me?!!!:

Comparing Protestants to satanists? Really? Yep, that’s Christian for sure.

 

[glendab]

Hello EstesBob.

The Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, in its 1993 Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism, encourages such participation:

In liturgical celebrations taking place in other churches and ecclesial communities, Catholics are encouraged to take part in the psalms, responses, hymns and common actions of the church in which they are guests. If invited by their hosts, they may read a lesson or preach (no. 118).

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_25031993_principles-and-norms-on-ecumenism_en.html

First off, I have to say I enjoy many of the things you share here at CAF. Good job.

However, your quotation is way out of context. It is part of a documents expressly for works of Ecumenism UNDER the specific direction of authorized persons for the express purpose of ecumenical efforts and is not to be promoted as a general instruction for laypersons to act on their own. Nice try though. the title says this: DIRECTORY FOR THE APPLICATION OF PRINCIPLES AND NORMS ON ECUMENISM

If anyone thinks they can go to a service in a Protestant Church on Sunday and claim they are acting on behalf of the Church in an ecumenical way, let them walk up to the Pastor there at that Protestant place and shake their hand the tell them that is why they are there. I don’t think they will buy any more than we would buy it here.

There Church actually has many person who are legitimately authorized and educated and given the official sanction to act on behalf of the Church in genuine ecumenical efforts. The hallmark of all ecumenical efforts is to let those we visit with and dialog with know that they are welcome to come home to Rome. It seeks unity between Christians and this isn’t achieved by disguising any Church teaching or truth nor adjusting it to be more palatable to the Protestant tastes.

Oh my. I’ve said enough. Nice chatting with you EstesBob. You sometimes say nice stuff.

Glenda

 

[recentrevert]

Participating in a Protestant service is false worship. Many parish priests are ignorant and unfaithful so Catholics cannot rely on them for the truth. We must investigate these things ourselves. It is permissible to attend funerals, baptisms and, I believe, weddings, at non-Catholic churches and it can be permissible under certain circumstances to attend for ecumenical purposes, but you cannot worship at a Protestant church out of convenience, nor can you allow your children to.

 

[Julianna]

Participating in a Protestant service is false worship. Many parish priests are ignorant and unfaithful so Catholics cannot rely on them for the truth. We must investigate these things ourselves. It is permissible to attend funerals, baptisms and, I believe, weddings, at non-Catholic churches and it can be permissible under certain circumstances to attend for ecumenical purposes, but you cannot worship at a Protestant church out of convenience, nor can you allow your children to.

My siblings and I went to my mom’s church about once a month and this was in the early mid 1960’s. So will you be leading the “investigation” to have my siblings and I drummed out of the Church.?

Really?

 

[runningdude]

Hello Runningdude.

So, Fr. Levis from EWTN doesn’t teach according to the Church? But that alas is really only your opinion. And according to you, neither does Michelle Arnold, who happens to be a Catholic Answers Apologist. Okie dokie. Just checking. What church’s teaching were you looking for?

Glenda

AS I HAVE ALREADY STATED, my position is IDENTICAL to Ms. Arnold’s.

Nothing Fr. Levis said precludes the kind of occasional attendance asked about in the original post to this thread.

 

[MEJPF]

What if the Protestant Denomination is one that openly advocates for, or in fact engages in practices that directly contradict Church teaching such as the re-definition of marriage?

 

[glendab]

Hello Running Dude.

What about the FACT that the Pio-Benedictine Code of 1917 expressly FORBIDS Catholics from attending worship services in other places? Why doesn’t anyone respond to that FACT?

Glenda

 

[glendab]

Hello MEJPF.

What if the Protestant Denomination is one that openly advocates for, or in fact engages in practices that directly contradict Church teaching such as the re-definition of marriage?

Progressive Catholics have a hard time with anything that impedes their interpretation of Church teaching and practices and if they wanted to go to any service even if it were celebrated by a woman pretending to be a Priest or by someone openly and obviously gay or for that matter giving a rousing homily against Church teaching regarding any of these issues, and you tried to dissuade them from going, well then, shame on you! They are Catholic in culture but in belief, NOT. Think Nancy Pelosi.

Glenda

 

[Julianna]

Hello Running Dude.

What about the FACT that the Pio-Benedictine Code of 1917 expressly FORBIDS Catholics from attending worship services in other places? Why doesn’t anyone respond to that FACT?

Glenda

I believe you are right about 1917. Women didn’t have the right to vote or own property. …and African-American were not considered a whole person.

Things have changed. …

 

[on_the_hill]

Hello Running Dude.

What about the FACT that the Pio-Benedictine Code of 1917 expressly FORBIDS Catholics from attending worship services in other places? Why doesn’t anyone respond to that FACT?

Glenda

It may have been a FACT in the 1917 code, but if the code was amended in 1983 then the 1983 code supercedes the 1917 code. Where two codes/laws run counter to each other, the newer one takes precedent. In other words, the old law doesn’t exist anymore.

 

[MEJPF]

Hello MEJPF.

Progressive Catholics have a hard time with anything that impedes their interpretation of Church teaching and practices and if they wanted to go to any service even if it were celebrated by a woman pretending to be a Priest or by someone openly and obviously gay or for that matter giving a rousing homily against Church teaching regarding any of these issues, and you tried to dissuade them from going, well then, shame on you! They are Catholic in culture but in belief, NOT. Think Nancy Pelosi.

Glenda

I am just looking for an answer regarding a service that my sister has invited me to. It is not, to my understanding, going to include “a rousing homily against Church teaching” but I am aware that this particular congregation is redefinition friendly. I want to witness on behalf of the Catholic Church to my sister and her family, but I do not want to give the appearance that I condone some of the positions that this particular congregation has.

 

[Julianna]

​

It may have been a FACT in the 1917 code, but if the code was amended in 1983 then the 1983 code supercedes the 1917 code. Where two codes/laws run counter to each other, the newer one takes precedent. In other words, the old law doesn’t exist anymore.

Thanks…exactly.

 

[runningdude]

Hello Running Dude.

What about the FACT that the Pio-Benedictine Code of 1917 expressly FORBIDS Catholics from attending worship services in other places? Why doesn’t anyone respond to that FACT?

Glenda

Again, as I have already stated, the Code of 1917 has been repealed, and no such ban exists in the current Code.

 

[glendab]

Hello Running Dude.

Again, as I have already stated, the Code of 1917 has been repealed, and no such ban exists in the current Code.

No it hasn’t been “repealed.” That doesn’t happen. Every bit of Church law is not contained in one place. The Church’s laws are many and come from many sources. Taken together they make the whole body of laws. When new Codes are promulgated, if something isn’t specifically mentioned then the old Canons are still in force. If the Church felt the need to revise it, then the new set of Canons would contain the revised Canons and you’d see them. Read up on it.

Glenda