Myth of the Pre-Tribulational Rapture

[Ozzie]

MaggieOH:

The big BIBLICAL event that happened when all of these things were written is **the sacking of Jerusalem by the pagan Romans. **The wrath of God was prophesied by Jesus when He gave the Olivet discourse. That coming wrath was fulfilled when the Temple was destroyed.

And yet, as I pointed out before, Paul wrote to the Gentile believing Thessalonians that God has not destined us for wrath (1 Thess. 1:10; 5:9). What would the “sacking of Jerusalem” have to do with those Gentile Thessalonian believers?

Also, the great tribulation Jesus describes in Matt. 24 has to do, IN CONTEXT, with “the end of the age” (Matt. 24:3). And He specifically states that:

MAT 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days (see vs. 21) the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken,

MAT 24:30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory."

Please tell me what day or even what month in 70 A.D. the whole world saw the Son of Man coming in the clouds of the sky in great glory.

See my post #s 178-179

The problem with you people who want to interpret all prophecy as historically fulfilled is that you have as many interpretations as you have interpreters. Sorry, that just won’t cut it.

 

[Benadam]

No, you have not yet answered my question regarding Matt. 24:29-30. Please answer it…

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:

The Son of Man’s sign is of course the cross. Note where it appears. Just as before when Stephen was being stoned to death the sign appeared in that Christ’s cross was being revealed . This appearance is refered to as in heaven because martyrdom involves the beatific vision of God. " I see the Son of Man"

and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.

All the families on earth are blessed in Abraham. These are the tribes that mourn and follow the Church as she endures the purifying fires of the cross of martyrdom accompanied by the vision of the Son of Man. This is the conversion of the Jews that trigger the resurrection of the dead. This is what purgatory is as well. It is the proximity of the Lord without the blinders of the body to distort the experience of truth.

This speaks volumes to those who dismember the proper order of family bonds.

The interpretation I offer of the scriptures you use to support your pre-trib view is consistent and offers a more comprehensive understanding that forms a construct of the spiritual realm. It explains it in a way that conceptualizes it from what was, gives substance to what is, and offers understanding to what will be.

 

[dennisknapp]

Ozzie:

Is Roman Catholicism a “Western phenomenon?” The difference is the true Church is world wide and when the Rapture occurs (and it will) believers living all over the world will be taken up. You can’t regionalize it.

Actually, it’s spiritually healthful to live every day knowing that Christ could come for His true Church at any time. That we could see Him face to face at any moment. It would be depressing to wake up every morning thinking or hoping that today I am going to die, but it is not depressing to live with the expectation of Christ coming for His true Church. The Apostle John says:

1JO 3:1 See how great a love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

1JO 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be. We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is.

1JO 3:3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

And the Apostle says to the Thessalonians after informing them of the future rapture of the Church (1 Thess. 4:15-18), *“Therefore comfort one another with these words.” *

Consider this also, the doctrine of “Purgatory” is not in the Bible (despite what your apologists tell you), yet the rapture of the true Church most definitely is. The two doctrines cannot co-exist, they’re in opposition one to another. I will opt for the Biblical one, the one based on God’s immutable Word. How about you?

I have no doubt that indeed the Lord will return one day. My comment dealt with the fact that it is useless to speculate. It is in God’s hand and that should be enough for the both of us.

My comment about all of us having an End time is true for we are all mortal. So, you can spend all the time you want on this subject but God will do things as He sees fit. You worry about the End times and I will worry about Matt. 25.

Peace

 

[Ozzie]

dennisknapp:

I have no doubt that indeed the Lord will return one day. My comment dealt with the fact that it is useless to speculate. It is in God’s hand and that should be enough for the both of us.

My comment about all of us having an End time is true for we are all mortal. So, you can spend all the time you want on this subject but God will do things as He sees fit. You worry about the End times and I will worry about Matt. 25.

Peace

I don’t “worry” about end times at all. I think it’s very important to know the truth about it. But why do you “worry” about Matt. 25? It has nothing to do with the true Church, so why worry? Unless you’re not part of the true Church, that is.

 

[Ozzie]

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:

The Son of Man’s sign is of course the cross. Note where it appears. Just as before when Stephen was being stoned to death the sign appeared in that Christ’s cross was being revealed . This appearance is refered to as in heaven because martyrdom involves the beatific vision of God. " I see the Son of Man"

(1)The text says absolutely nothing about the “sign” being the cross. But Chist Himself coming in the clouds and EVEYONE sees him. (2) Stephen did not see a cross but Jesus STANDING at the right hand of God (Acts 7:55). Don’t read something into the text that is not there. You corrupt it!!

and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.

All the families on earth are blessed in Abraham. These are the tribes that mourn and follow the Church as she endures the purifying fires of the cross of martyrdom accompanied by the vision of the Son of Man. This is the conversion of the Jews that trigger the resurrection of the dead. This is what purgatory is as well. It is the proximity of the Lord without the blinders of the body to distort the experience of truth.

The text says NOTHING of the sort. It says nothing about any resurrection of the dead or the unbiblical doctrine of “Purgatory.”

This is always the danger of those who come up with their own doctrines (doctrines of men) and then force Scripture to conform them, i.e., spiritualizing.

The interpretation I offer of the scriptures you use to support your pre-trib view is consistent and offers a more comprehensive understanding that forms a construct of the spiritual realm. It explains it in a way that conceptualizes it from what was, gives substance to what is, and offers understanding to what will be.

In truth, the interpretation you offer totally corrupts the text, and so badly that what is actually being communicated there no one could understand.

**How would you like it if someone did that to something you wrote? **People think because the Bible is a spiritual Book, i.e., it reveals spiritual truths, they have the right to “spiritualize” it whenever they wish, conforming it to their own presuppositions. But it’s God’s written Word, we are to learn FROM it, not impose UPON it.

 

[Cubsfan]

Ozzie:

Is Roman Catholicism a “Western phenomenon?” The difference is the true Church is world wide and when the Rapture occurs (and it will) believers living all over the world will be taken up. You can’t regionalize it.

Consider this also, the doctrine of “Purgatory” is not in the Bible (despite what your apologists tell you), yet the rapture of the true Church most definitely is. The two doctrines cannot co-exist, they’re in opposition one to another. I will opt for the Biblical one, the one based on God’s immutable Word. How about you?

FIrst the CATHOLIC CHURCH is universal. Roman Catholicism is the latin rite of the church. The beauty of catholicism is that at anytime of the day or night the holy sacrament of the mass is occuring. This is a truly awesome thought.

As for purgatory, sure it is in scripture you just like to ignore the fact that Martin Luther liked to eliminate those parts of scripture that didn’t fit his theology. What of Maccabbes, I am not a Bible scholar but it speaks of praying for the dead.:tsktsk:

 

[Benadam]

(1

)The text says absolutely nothing about the “sign” being the cross. But Chist Himself coming in the clouds and EVEYONE sees him. (2) Stephen did not see a cross but Jesus STANDING at the right hand of God (Acts 7:55). Don’t read something into the text that is not there. You corrupt it!!The text says NOTHING of the sort. It says nothing about any resurrection of the dead or the unbiblical doctrine of “Purgatory.”

Stephen saw the Son of Man not the sign of the Son of Man. The sign appears in heaven. This is what the text say’s. A sign is a material manifestation of a spiritual reality. If one see’s the spiritual reality it is not the sign they see but the reality. We will see Him as He is because we will be ‘like’ Him. Stephen becomes the material manifestation of a spiritual reality because the cross is the sign which partakes in the reality of the vision of God which is the transforming power in heaven and the power of the cross on earth. The power of the cross shares the transforming power of the vision of God of which it is a sign.

This is always the danger of those who come up with their own doctrines

(doctrines of men) and then force Scripture to conform them, i.e., spiritualizing.In truth, the interpretation you offer totally corrupts the text, and so badly that what is actually being communicated there no one could understand.

I believe the source of authenticity of your doctrin is unstated. On the other hand the Church teaches that the sign mentioned in the Gospel of Matthew is the Cross of Christ who is the Son of Man.
**

**How would you like it if someone did that to something you wrote? **

**People think because the Bible is a spiritual Book, i.e., it reveals spiritual truths, they have the right to “spiritualize” it whenever they wish, conforming it to their own presuppositions. **But it’s God’s written Word, we are to learn FROM it, not impose UPON it.**Unless you authenticate the enterpretation you present the only imposition upon the Holy Scriptures is what you wrote. This in fact is an attempt to transform a spiritual reality into an earthly one. But I don’t blame you for that because that isn’t your intention.

 

[embertx]

Ozzie:

I don’t “worry” about end times at all. I think it’s very important to know the truth about it. But why do you “worry” about Matt. 25? It has nothing to do with the true Church, so why worry? Unless you’re not part of the true Church, that is.

What? Matt 25 has nothing to do with the true Church? Just part of the bible but not of the true Church?

God bless

 

[Benadam]

I’ve already offered evidence to the contrary. Stating a belief without offering evidence more substantial than the evidence I’ve presented does nothing to support a reason to agree with what you believe.

 

[Ozzie]

Cubsfan:

As for purgatory, sure it is in scripture you just like to ignore the fact that Martin Luther liked to eliminate those parts of scripture that didn’t fit his theology. What of Maccabbes, I am not a Bible scholar but it speaks of praying for the dead

Well, not to get into a debate about “Purgatory,” since that is not what this thread is about, but have you actually read 2 Macc. 12:39-45? 1. It’s impossible to extrapolate Rome’s fully developed doctrine of “Purgatory” from that passage. It’s not even remotely close. 2. The passage itself is not didactic, it simply records their actions. And just because they something doesn’t mean its doctrinally correct. They were Jews under the Law of Moses. Can you show me where in the Law of Moses it is instructed for sacrifices to be made for the dead? 3. The sin of these men was idolatry, which is a “mortal sin” (in the eyes of RC’ism). Hence, based on Roman theology, the men would not be in “Purgatory” but Hell.

But to get back to my original statement, the Biblical doctrine of the Rapture of the true Church and Rome’s extrabiblical doctrine of Purgatory cannot co-exist.

1THES. 4:17 “Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.”

Based on Roman doctrine the only way all who are alive and are caught up together with those who are bodily resurrected would have to be canonized by the Pope as “saints.” But to canonize men as “saints” takes a long time and great investigation. We’re talking millions of people here. Plus, these people are ALIVE, and when has the Pope ever canonized a living person a “saint.”

Conclusion: If the Biblical doctrine of the Rapture of the true Church is true (and it is), it negates Rome’s doctrine of Purgatory as well as its practice of canonizing “saints.”

 

[Ozzie]

Embertx:

What? Matt 25 has nothing to do with the true Church? Just part of the bible but not of the true Church?

That’s right. Can you show me where the Church is mentioned in Matt. 25? All Scripture is written FOR you, but not all Scripture is written ABOUT you.

 

[dennisknapp]

Ozzie:

1THES. 4:17 “Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.”

Based on Roman doctrine the only way all who are alive and are caught up together with those who are bodily resurrected would have to be canonized by the Pope as “saints.” But to canonize men as “saints” takes a long time and great investigation. We’re talking millions of people here. Plus, these people are ALIVE, and when has the Pope ever canonized a living person a “saint.”

Conclusion: If the Biblical doctrine of the Rapture of the true Church is true (and it is), it negates Rome’s doctrine of Purgatory as well as its practice of canonizing “saints.”

Why do you continue to use 1 Thes. 4:17 out of context? All that verse can prove is the Second Coming, not the rapture. There is only one Second Coming, not two. Where in the world to you get from Scripture the idea that Christ comes to grab His “true” church and then later comes yet again to set up His earthy kingdom? This does not make sense?

Peace

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

COnclusion, Fundamentalism’s extrabiblical hypothesis of the “Rapture” is unfounded, and the Catholic position of Purgatory is true. The Catholic position of Purgatory is not bases solely on one verse of scripture, as is the Rapture. It is a comination of multiple passages of scripture, combined with the Church constant understanding that a person can be “saved”, but not gain immediate entry to heaven, as “Nothing unclean can stand before the Lord.” Which part of “nothing unclean” are you having trouble with. It means that if our soul is infused with the saving grace of our Lord, by still possesses the blemishes of our daily infractions, we have to have those blemishes removed before we can stand in the presence of God. God will NOT ignore it. One must be perfect to stand in the presence of God.

Ozzie:

Well, not to get into a debate about “Purgatory,” since that is not what this thread is about, but have you actually read 2 Macc. 12:39-45? 1. It’s impossible to extrapolate Rome’s fully developed doctrine of “Purgatory” from that passage. It’s not even remotely close. 2. The passage itself is not didactic, it simply records their actions. And just because they something doesn’t mean its doctrinally correct. They were Jews under the Law of Moses. Can you show me where in the Law of Moses it is instructed for sacrifices to be made for the dead? 3. The sin of these men was idolatry, which is a “mortal sin” (in the eyes of RC’ism). Hence, based on Roman theology, the men would not be in “Purgatory” but Hell.

But to get back to my original statement, the Biblical doctrine of the Rapture of the true Church and Rome’s extrabiblical doctrine of Purgatory cannot co-exist.

1THES. 4:17 “Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.”

Based on Roman doctrine the only way all who are alive and are caught up together with those who are bodily resurrected would have to be canonized by the Pope as “saints.” But to canonize men as “saints” takes a long time and great investigation. We’re talking millions of people here. Plus, these people are ALIVE, and when has the Pope ever canonized a living person a “saint.”

Conclusion: If the Biblical doctrine of the Rapture of the true Church is true (and it is), it negates Rome’s doctrine of Purgatory as well as its practice of canonizing “saints.”

 

[dennisknapp]

Ozzie:

That’s right. Can you show me where the Church is mentioned in Matt. 25? All Scripture is written FOR you, but not all Scripture is written ABOUT you.

How is not about the Church?

Matt. 25:31-46.
**The Sheep and the Goats **

31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, **‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ **

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40**“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’**

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Peace

 

[Benadam]

Scott_Lafrance:

COnclusion, Fundamentalism’s extrabiblical hypothesis of the “Rapture” is unfounded, and the Catholic position of Purgatory is true. The Catholic position of Purgatory is not bases solely on one verse of scripture, as is the Rapture. It is a comination of multiple passages of scripture, combined with the Church constant understanding that a person can be “saved”, but not gain immediate entry to heaven, as “Nothing unclean can stand before the Lord.” Which part of “nothing unclean” are you having trouble with. It means that if our soul is infused with the saving grace of our Lord, by still possesses the blemishes of our daily infractions, we have to have those blemishes removed before we can stand in the presence of God. God will NOT ignore it. One must be perfect to stand in the presence of God.

Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and **perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. **

Faith is for this life only. It doesn’t exist in the afterlife in heaven or hell. Faith, Holiness, Virtue, Christlikeness, they are all perfected when our faith is perfected.

We are transformed into perfection thru the way Christ has marked for us. The Cross that leads to the vision of God through our fellow human the Son of Man perfect man’s soul.

This process can also be conceptualized as a purging of sin. The Church wisely adopts this way of wording it in order to keep our sin before us in humility rather than risk the temptation to boast in seeing our perfection increasing.

Countless Christians have experienced the transforming power of the cross in this life. This shows that purgatory exists, and not only in the afterlife but as taught in the above passage, Christ expects it to happen to us right here on earth.

The purging experience that accompanies redemptive suffering is the most perfect witness to the Gospel possible. There is no denying it’s power to those who participate in the events surrounding it. No one remains uneffected.

St Stephen is the example par exellance in that the chief of sinners was among those who participated in his redemptive suffering. When Stephen perfectly imitated his Master and asked the Father to not hold this sin against those killing him, the prayer was heard and granted. St Stephen at that moment was beholding the transforming vision of God and was in the very process of beatification. As a blessed in heaven he interceded on behalf of Saul who was granted the vision before ever carrying his cross. The reason for the chains he so humbly endured.

It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where " ‘their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’e] 49****Everyone **will be salted with fire. **

50"Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with each other."

his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be **revealed **with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work.

I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, **so you can see. **

12Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the** cross** of Christ. 13Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh.

 

[Ozzie]

Traditional Ang:

I also believe that you won’t find anything in the texts you’re citing that state that there will be a Pre-Tribulational Rapture. They do, however support the Doctrine of the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, which doesn’t require the modern notion of a Pre-Tribulational Rapture in order for it to occur.

You’re absolutely right, but my comments were restricted to the Matt. 24:14 passage and the future preaching of the “gospel of the KINGDOM” in contrast to the gospel of GRACE which is being herald to the world during this Church age. Did you not follow my Scriptural logic?

Ozzie, try reading Hal Lindsey’s Late, Great, Planet Earth. In that book, he says he believes the world’s going to end very soon, within a matter of a few years, and that some of those who witnessed at the founding of the Nation of Israel (as adults) would still be alive when Our Lord returned. It was published in 1973.
That sounds like a prediction to me.

I read his book, albeit, some years ago. He expressed his* belief*, but made no prediction as to when it would actually happen. I agree that no man should make such statements based on one’s own personal beliefs, but his beliefs were not a “prediction.”

The Fathers of the Church all spoke about the Second coming of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. None spoke about a “Pre-Tribulation Rapture”. Why? Why is this Doctrine NOT mentioned in any of the Church’s Creeds, but the Second Coming is is mentioned in them ALL?

I addressed this in my message to Dennis. See post # 200, last message on page 2.

Ozzie, If this doctrine is so important to the Faith of the people of God, why was it discloesed to a Protestant churchman by the name of Darby only 150 years ago? Why not to all of those Doctors of the church both East and West?

This all has to do with doctrinal development. And doctrinal development (promoted or hindered) is closely connected to the historical events that took place in Church history. Even the doctrine of the Trinity took time to develop and be settled. And even after it was settled not all believed. Like I said, see my post # 200.

I don’t put this doctrine at the top of the list of importance in respect to one’s faith, like Soteriological doctrines. But a large percentage of the Bible is dedicated to prophetic writings so I must conclude it’s an important subject in God’s eyes. Hence, why should it not be important to believers? And it does immediately effect other doctrines, as I’ve expressed in my other posts.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Quote by Ozzie "Yes, according to Scripture we KNOW that it WILL happen. And based on the verses above we do know HOW it will happen. But you’re absolutely right, we don’t know WHEN it will happen. The Rapture of the true Church is imminent, it could happen any time. "

Well Ozzie if it is as imminent as you say then you better hurry your butt over to the true church!

I still don’t see where your version of the “Rapture” comes from. Nor do I see the word Rapture. For a person who believes in Sola Scriptura you are certainly making a few leaps and bounds. Well maybe you don’t believe in scripture alone. If that is the case hey then maybe you are on your way to the true church after all.

God Bless
:tiphat: h

 

[Ozzie]

ProdigalSun:

Quote by Ozzie "Yes, according to Scripture we KNOW that it WILL happen. And based on the verses above we do know HOW it will happen. But you’re absolutely right, we don’t know WHEN it will happen. The Rapture of the true Church is imminent, it could happen any time. "

Well Ozzie if it is as imminent as you say then you better hurry your butt over to the true church!

The "true Church" is made up of all true believers, those who have put their personal faith in all that Christ has accomplished for them through His death, burial and resurrection. Not just baptized. There are many Catholics and “Protestants” who are not ture believers, simply religious. “Imminent” means it could happen any time, not immediately.

I still don’t see where your version of the “Rapture” comes from.

You don’t want to.

Nor do I see the word Rapture. For a person who believes in Sola Scriptura you are certainly making a few leaps and bounds. Well maybe you don’t believe in scripture alone. If that is the case hey then maybe you are on your way to the true church after all.

The word Rapture is from the Latin. Being a Catholic you should know this. A good Catholic should know Latin. I am in the true Church, the Church which Christ has been building since Pentecost, made up of all who trust in Christ alone, to the glory of God.

 

[Mickey]

Ozzie:

The word Rapture is from the Latin.

What does this have to do with the price of oranges in Brazil?

 

[Ozzie]

dennisknapp:

Why do you continue to use 1 Thes. 4:17 out of context? All that verse can prove is the Second Coming, not the rapture. There is only one Second Coming, not two. Where in the world to you get from Scripture the idea that Christ comes to grab His “true” church and then later comes yet again to set up His earthy kingdom? This does not make sense?

If you allow the Scriptures to speak for themselves, if you allow for a literal delineation of the prophetic Scriptures, you come to realize that the Church Christ is building today, made up of individual believing Jews and Gentiles, is presented in Scripture as a totally separate divine program, totally distinct from that of God’s prophetic program and covenant relationship with national Israel, revealed in the O.T. prophetic writing.

This whole Church age is considered a “mystery;” and in respect to God’s prophetic program with national Israel - parenthetical. In other words, it was not revealed in the O.T. prophets. The Apostle speaks clearly on this. In Eph. 2:20-22 he describes the (true) Church as being built upon the foundation of the Apostles and N.T. prophets, Christ Himself being the corner stone. Even Jesus referred to the building of His Church as yet future to His earthly ministry (Matt. 16:18). He didn’t say “I am building my Church,” but “I will build My Church.”

Paul goes on in Eph. 3 to say that “by revelation” there was made known to him this “mystery” He was given insight into the “mystery” of the Christ "which in other generations was not made know to the sons of men (O.T. prophets), as it has NOW been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit To be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow-heirs and fellow-members of THE BODY, and fellow-partakers of the promise IN CHRIST JESUS THROUGH THE GOSPEL" (Eph. 3:4-6). Paul was given the privilege of bringing "to light was is the administration of the mystery which for ages HAS BEEN HIDDEN in God, which is NOW made known through the Church and which is in accordance with His eternal purpose carried out in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 3:8-11).

Previously in chapter two Paul, speaking to Gentile believers in Ephesus, says that they were brought near to God through the blood of Christ (2:13). The Church didn’t become the new Israel, but God has, during this administration of the “mystery” (3:9), made the two (individual believing Jews and Gentiles) into “one NEW man, reconciling them both in ONE BODY to God THROUGH THE CROSS” (Eph. 2:15-16). This “one new man,” this “one body” is the Church, the “Body/Bride” of Christ which was not revealed in the Old Testament.

The thought of equality of Jew and Gentile was never mentioned in the great Kingdom passages revealed to the ancient Hebrew prophets. The Jews were absolutely correct by interpreting such passages such as Is. 61:5-6 as indicating Israel’s supremacy in the Kingdom yet to come. Is. 2:1-4 teaches this same truth revealing that the seat government will be in Jerusalem and from Zion the law will go forth. Certainly the Gentiles are promised salvation at that time, material blessings, peace, tranquility and a share in the glory of that coming era. But none of these blessings are extended to Gentiles in these Kingdom passages on the ground of equality with national Israel (see Zech. 8:1-8; 20-23). And this is the point of the “mystery” of this Church age, *i.e., *that individual believing Jews and Gentiles, during this unforeseen Church age, are being brought into relationship with God and His Messiah through a whole new entity, based on equality between Jew and Gentile, called the Body/Bride of Christ.

When the last individual Gentile is brought into the Body/Bride of Christ through the preaching of the gospel message of grace through faith in Christ called “the fulness of the Gentiles” in Rom. 11:25), Christ will come for her as promised (Jn. 14:3). The whole Church/Body (both dead and alive) is taken up to meet the Lord in the air at that moment, graphically illustrated in 1 Thess. 4:15-18 (cf. 1 Cor. 15:51). 1 Thess. 4:15-18 is not stated in the context of Christ’s 2nd Advent TO EARTH. There is only one return of Christ TO EARTH, but He returns “in the air” to receive His Bride before that. I have shown in previous posts that the Church is not destined for the “wrath” to come and she is taken up before this event occurs.

Rome does a great disservice to its devotees by presenting the Church merely as an organization, rather than an organism bought, cleansed and sanctified by the blood of Christ.