Myths about Traditionalists

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And, you can document this?
The FSSP cannot and do not open independent churches within the diocese of other Bishops. The FSSP is invited into the diocese by the Bishop in control of that area. They operate in a similar fashion to the Dominicans and Franciscans.
 
And, you can document this? :rolleyes:
Hey i know this happened in Boston. O’Malley had offers from the FSSP that he turned down. Learned this from one of the parishes that is being closed, Holy Trinity.

I’ve heard of this elsewhere as well but don’t know the specifics off hand.
 
Hey i know this happened in Boston. O’Malley had offers from the FSSP that he turned down. Learned this from one of the parishes that is being closed, Holy Trinity.
I’ve heard of this elsewhere as well but don’t know the specifics off hand.
This further supports my view that the FSSP are more than willing to enter into parishes in order to meet the needs of traditionalist Catholics.

There is no need for unwilling diocesian priests to learn the Tridentine Mass when the FSSP would be happy enter into the diocese and do this for them.
 
Hey i know this happened in Boston. O’Malley had offers from the FSSP that he turned down. Learned this from one of the parishes that is being closed, Holy Trinity.

I’ve heard of this elsewhere as well but don’t know the specifics off hand.
Heresay or documented?
 
This further supports my view that the FSSP are more than willing to enter into parishes in order to meet the needs of traditionalist Catholics.

There is no need for unwilling diocesian priests to learn the Tridentine Mass when the FSSP would be happy enter into the diocese and do this for them.
I find this difficult to believe. We have priests doubling and even tripling up with parishes as it is now. A bishop would REFUSE a priest because of thier preference for the TLM?
 
I find this difficult to believe. We have priests doubling and even tripling up with parishes as it is now. A bishop would REFUSE a priest because of thier preference for the TLM?
I never said a Bishop would “REFUSE” any FSSP priest. I said that the FSSP would be willing to enter into a diocese if invited.

However, I wouldn’t be suprised if a Bishop refused the FSSP, but not because of their preference for the Tridentine Mass. A Bishop may refuse them because he would need to give the FSSP their own Church; the FSSP do more than simply offer the Mass. The FSSP offer all of the Tridentine Sacraments and follow a distictly traditional way of life. Some Bishops may not be able to give them a Church, and there may not be enough people who desire the traditional Sacraments to warrant this.
 
I never said a Bishop would “REFUSE” any FSSP priest. I said that the FSSP would be willing to enter into a diocese if invited.

However, I wouldn’t be suprised if a Bishop refused the FSSP, but not because of their preference for the Tridentine Mass. A Bishop may refuse them because he would need to give the FSSP their own Church; the FSSP do more than simply offer the Mass. The FSSP offer all of the Tridentine Sacraments and follow a distictly traditional way of life. Some Bishops may not be able to give them a Church, and there may not be enough people who desire the traditional Sacraments to warrant this.
I would think that perhaps, in the larger metropolitan areas, the must be surely ONE parish available that could be FSSP-staffed, much like the parishes that are staffed by other orders?

Certainly in the large metro areas, the relief for other priests would be welcome, not to mention an opportunity to honestly gauge growth and interest in the TLM?
 
I find this difficult to believe. We have priests doubling and even tripling up with parishes as it is now. A bishop would REFUSE a priest because of thier preference for the TLM?
My bishop merely “acknowledged” the Motu Proprio (his exact word). This announcement was followed by a scathing article by the diocesan chancellor in the diocesan newspaper saying “nobody wants this Mass”.

I also keep track of what’s going on back home in New Orleans. Nary a mention about the FSSP yet the archdiocese is closing 100+ year old parishes to the great dismay of people (like myself) whose ancestors where baptized, confirmed, married and buried from these historic churches.

I still maintain that there are sizeable numbers of those of us who are old enough to have experienced HMC before Vatican II and who would be perfectly comfortable with an FSSP parish. The “myth” that is being promulgated is that “nobody wants this Mass”.
 
I also keep track of what’s going on back home in New Orleans. Nary a mention about the FSSP yet the archdiocese is closing 100+ year old parishes to the great dismay of people (like myself) whose ancestors where baptized, confirmed, married and buried from these historic churches.
Are these parishes being closed because of a lack of priests, or lack of financial support from the congregation?

Dismay doesn’t pay the bills.
 
Are these parishes being closed because of a lack of priests, or lack of financial support from the congregation?

Dismay doesn’t pay the bills.
The historic parishes I have in mind did not flood nor did the homes surrounding them. Their populations are basically the same as they were before Katrina. The parishoners demonstrated financial soundness for the archbishop. In spite of that he closed them. To great dismay I might add.

Of course, there were many parishes where the church went under water and the neighborhood was decimated. That you can understand. But he also closed a parish in the middle of a thriving suburb (the parish next door to my childhood parish). So, I think you can safely say it was a lack of priests and the fall-out (in terms of money) from the abuse crisis.

I know that here in my own diocese, we have been forced to cluster parishes because of a lack of priests. We only have one priest at my cathedral parish and several of the Orders (priests, nuns, and brothers) have left the diocese because of lack of vocations.

I don’t know if the FSSP offered their services to either the archbishop or our bishop but I do believe that in either city they would find a solid base of support. The myth that “nobody wants it” is just that - a myth.
 
The historic parishes I have in mind did not flood nor did the homes surrounding them. Their populations are basically the same as they were before Katrina. The parishoners demonstrated financial soundness for the archbishop. In spite of that he closed them. To great dismay I might add.

Of course, there were many parishes where the church went under water and the neighborhood was decimated. That you can understand. But he also closed a parish in the middle of a thriving suburb (the parish next door to my childhood parish). So, I think you can safely say it was a lack of priests and the fall-out (in terms of money) from the abuse crisis.

I know that here in my own diocese, we have been forced to cluster parishes because of a lack of priests. We only have one priest at my cathedral parish and several of the Orders (priests, nuns, and brothers) have left the diocese because of lack of vocations.

I don’t know if the FSSP offered their services to either the archbishop or our bishop but I do believe that in either city they would find a solid base of support. The myth that “nobody wants it” is just that - a myth.
Thanks for your answer. That is what I am getting at. Do we actually know WHY the churches were closed? If it was a lack of priests, do we know for certain that various orders, including the FSSP, were approached with a request to staff said parishes?

As Tony Randall would say, we all know what happens when we “assume”.
 
The historic parishes I have in mind did not flood nor did the homes surrounding them. Their populations are basically the same as they were before Katrina. The parishoners demonstrated financial soundness for the archbishop. In spite of that he closed them. To great dismay I might add.

Of course, there were many parishes where the church went under water and the neighborhood was decimated. That you can understand. But he also closed a parish in the middle of a thriving suburb (the parish next door to my childhood parish). So, I think you can safely say it was a lack of priests and the fall-out (in terms of money) from the abuse crisis.

I know that here in my own diocese, we have been forced to cluster parishes because of a lack of priests. We only have one priest at my cathedral parish and several of the Orders (priests, nuns, and brothers) have left the diocese because of lack of vocations.

I don’t know if the FSSP offered their services to either the archbishop or our bishop but I do believe that in either city they would find a solid base of support. The myth that “nobody wants it” is just that - a myth.
Lets talk about one Parish., St Henrys

Even though St Henrys is totally self supporting and has been for many many years with a stable committed growing congregation, and no problems with a Priest, it is still on the closure list. True, St Stephens is only two blocks away is a larger church and when St Henrys was founded it was technically a parish within St Stephens Parish. . St Stephens suffers from smaller attendance and smaller collections but does have a school, which St Henrys no longer has.

BUT

The whole St Henrys complex covers about a block and a half of prime uptown real estate which is worth millions, More than a few million, quite a lot actually, which I have no doubt the Archdiocese plans to sell ASAP

I think the real reason is obvious. I hate to say that, but it does appear to be true.

Why else would you close down a Church that is growing, committed and totally self sufficient?
 
Lets talk about one Parish., St Henrys

Even though St Henrys is totally self supporting and has been for many many years with a stable committed growing congregation, and no problems with a Priest, it is still on the closure list. True, St Stephens is only two blocks away is a larger church and when St Henrys was founded it was technically a parish within St Stephens Parish. . St Stephens suffers from smaller attendance and smaller collections but does have a school, which St Henrys no longer has.

BUT

The whole St Henrys complex covers about a block and a half of prime uptown real estate which is worth millions, More than a few million, quite a lot actually, which I have no doubt the Archdiocese plans to sell ASAP

I think the real reason is obvious. I hate to say that, but it does appear to be true.

Why else would you close down a Church that is growing, committed and totally self sufficient?
If you have a larger church just two blocks away, it DOES make sense to combine, and free up that priest for service elsewhere, no? Sounds like that neighborhood might be one of those old throw-back areas where there were multiple ethnic parishes back in the early 1900’s.
 
If you have a larger church just two blocks away, it DOES make sense to combine, and free up that priest for service elsewhere, no? Sounds like that neighborhood might be one of those old throw-back areas where there were multiple ethnic parishes back in the early 1900’s.
So what you are saying is that a parish with a smaller congregation and a larger building should be sustained while the parish with the larger congregation but a smaller building should be shut down.

I agree that perhaps they should be combined but why shut down the thriving parish and leave the struggling parish open? As I said the real reason is pretty obvious.,
 
Lets talk about one Parish., St Henrys

The whole St Henrys complex covers about a block and a half of prime uptown real estate which is worth millions, More than a few million, quite a lot actually, which I have no doubt the Archdiocese plans to sell ASAP
This is the same story I heard about Holy Trinity in Boston. Although it was healthy, the Diocese over the years denied certain activities at the parish which made it look like it was dying - even taking money out of the healthy parish accounts [that parishioners had raised personally] and giving it to support OTHER parishes. This parish also is in a block of valuable prime real estate identified for development.

This was all spelled out by parishioners of Holy Trinity and those on parish closing commissions in a discussion on Fr Z’s WDTPRS blog.

Another detail of interest is that in Boston, not one Irish-based parish has been closed, only those of other ethnic origin.
 
Just want to add that an the FSSP offered to come to my diocese (which has a rapidly growing TLM community) and the Archbishop met with them, then nothing.

I am a little conflicted over that because I love the FSSP, but we have a great priest who comes every other week, for some reason we can’t have him every week. He is a diocesian priest. He is very committed to traditional catholism and has promoted reading of the church fathers, saints, frequent confession (he is adamant about that), devotions, dignity of human life and good solid catechesis which is taught from the pulpit.

I know that through the EF and the emphasis on living our catholic faith outside of mass, I have grown tremenduosly in my faith, way more than when I attended an OF. Now, I realize that is a personal story and many who attend the OF have great experiences too, but for *me *, I have found that with the EF Mass, comes the catechesis and the guidance from a good priest that I lacked in several parishes all over the country.

I have friends who attend the OF and they ask me for guidance on moral or church issues. I always give them the same advice, talk to a good priest and then I offer them my priest’s card (which he gives away freely).

Long post, but I kinda get tired of the whole discussion being about the Mass and ignoring what else can come of attending the TLM. I don’t think anyone has to attend this Mass at all times, but I wish that more people would see it as a precious piece of our Catholic history and culture that should be treated as such.
 
I remember after the first Traditional Mass I went to, I was talking to some nuns from the Daughters of St. Paul about how it incredible it was. As I was walking away, I saw the nuns huddled together whispering about me, “concerned” about something. This was the first time that discovered that something was “wrong” for feeling the way I was feeling about the Traditional Mass. And what made it worse----these nuns were “Conservative”.
This was also the first time I realized that Traditonalists had more than the Progressives as enemies—we had the “Conservatives” too.:confused: I wonder what “myth” they were entertaining? Was it perhaps that because I loved the Traditional Mass, I was a “schismatic”?
Since they are conservative, I’m guessing that they’re not in a hurry to add the wimple back to their habits, nor the old rules that kept them from visiting their families before someone had actually died. Do not be certain that others who attend the TLM have not told them that those “good old days” are devoutly to be wished for.

Or maybe they were only debating whether it was charitable at that point to let you know that you had your skirt tucked into the back of your pantyhose. 😉
 
Since they are conservative, I’m guessing that they’re not in a hurry to add the wimple back to their habits, nor the old rules that kept them from visiting their families before someone had actually died. Do not be certain that others who attend the TLM have not told them that those “good old days” are devoutly to be wished for.

Or maybe they were only debating whether it was charitable at that point to let you know that you had your skirt tucked into the back of your pantyhose. 😉
I’m not sure exactly what you are saying. Are you saying that I am effeminate somehow beacuse of my love for the Traditional Mass??:confused: 🤷 I dunno
 
I’m not sure exactly what you are saying. Are you saying that I am effeminate somehow beacuse of my love for the Traditional Mass??:confused: 🤷 I dunno
You are too rich…no! 😃 I was saying that when people sort of whisper and look at you with a concerned expression, sometimes you have unknowingly had something embarrassing happen to you, and they’re trying to decide if it is nice to say something or not. You know, like toilet paper dragging from your shoe, or spinach in your teeth, or when a woman rubs her eye, smears her makeup, and then looks like the make-up department did a bad job of approximating a black eye. I’m sorry I didn’t realize you were a guy. I was putting myself in your place, that’s all.

I’m just saying that the sisters’ expression might have nothing to do with the TLM. 😉

Anyway, the best thing you can do is to be your normal, loving, Christian self. If they have the wrong idea about “what kind of person” is edified by the TLM, why, they just haven’t spent enough time with you!! 👍

If you’d like to see the return of the wimple, though, I’d keep that under your hat. :rolleyes:
 
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