T
twinc
Guest
surely you mean - could you please,please,use punctuation.It would,help,make your meaning clear - twincTwinc, can you please use punctuation? It would help make your meaning clear.
surely you mean - could you please,please,use punctuation.It would,help,make your meaning clear - twincTwinc, can you please use punctuation? It would help make your meaning clear.
If the deposit of faith is just a bunch of nonsense dreamed up by an ancient, nomadic tribal group - why do you believe it? (or do you?)But in the end it matters not one whit what they think. The world’s biologists are not about to jettison 150 years of research and testing of evolution; the world’s geologists are not likely to replace 200 years of research in geology with a nomadic tale of a worldwide flood, and the world’s physicists and astronomers are not about to exchange what we know about the cosmos for the ancient cosmogonic myth of one tribal group. And educated Catholics are not about to jettison their faith and stop going to Mass just because some people tell them modern science is incompatible with their literal reading of scripture!
StAnastasia
What do you mean by “just a bunch of nonsense”? Is that all sacred story means to you? You construct a false dichotomy in contrasting a literal interpretation of sacred story with “just a bunch of nonsense.”If the deposit of faith is just a bunch of nonsense dreamed up by an ancient, nomadic tribal group - why do you believe it? (or do you?)
come now how can what is incompatible possibly be compatible - this is non science and nonsense - btw no Pope has or could possibly accept Atheist Evolution and request Catholics accept it and teach it as fact - twincJuliamajor, I think part of the problem is the low level of science education in the United States. I gave a talk at a conference on Evolution at Notre Dame University last autumn, and had a nice conversation with Josef Zycinski, Archbishop of Lublin in Poland. He was a professional scientist before he was ordained priest and then bishop. He has written a great book entitled God and Evolution (2006) (I highly recommend this), and expressed surprise to me at the huge amount of scientific ignorance in the US, especially with respect to evolutionary biology. It seems to make no difference with people on CAF that the two most recent popes and most educated Catholics accept evolution.
But in the end it matters not one whit what they think. The world’s biologists are not about to jettison 150 years of research and testing of evolution; the world’s geologists are not likely to replace 200 years of research in geology with a nomadic tale of a worldwide flood, and the world’s physicists and astronomers are not about to exchange what we know about the cosmos for the ancient cosmogonic myth of one tribal group. And educated Catholics are not about to jettison their faith and stop going to Mass just because some people tell them modern science is incompatible with their literal reading of scripture!
StAnastasia
You’re quite right, Twinc – no pope could request Catholics to accept atheist evolution!no Pope has or could possibly accept Atheist Evolution and request Catholics accept it and teach it as fact - twinc
In your post, you referred to the inspired word of God as “a nomadic tale” and “the ancient cosmogonic myth of one tribal group” - clearly implying that it is not credible. I did not “construct a false dichotomy.” Dei Verbum asserts that “the books of both the Old and New Testaments in their entirety, with all their parts, are sacred and canonical because written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author and have been handed on as such to the Church herself.”What do you mean by “just a bunch of nonsense”? Is that all sacred story means to you? You construct a false dichotomy in contrasting a literal interpretation of sacred story with “just a bunch of nonsense.”
Good!By the way, I never said anything about a literal interpretation of anything. … that doesn’t mean that I think they should be read from a literalist, fundamentalist perspective either.
of course we must not be too quick to accept either what you or mea culpa or even I intrepet but exac tly what the Church says re interpretation via Augustine and Pope Leo XIII which has not and cannot be rescinded or updated to suit the modernists mentioned by Pope Pius X and XII - twincGood!
You’d better tell that to Pope Benedict. Not only did he authorize the evolutionary statement in Communion and Stewardship, but the Vatican authorized a conference last March on Evolution and Catholic thought at the Pontifical Gregorian University. I participated in the conference, and it was excellent, provocative, and prayerful.of course we must not be too quick to accept either what you or mea culpa or even I intrepet but exac tly what the Church says re interpretation via Augustine and Pope Leo XIII which has not and cannot be rescinded or updated to suit the modernists mentioned by Pope Pius X and XII - twinc
so why not publish it accurately and in full and also the creation conference against Evolution - these can all and much more can be found on the Ignis Ardens website under a special forum as Creation and science - twincYou’d better tell that to Pope Benedict. Not only did he authorize the evolutionary statement in Communion and Stewardship, but the Vatican authorized a conference last March on Evolution and Catholic thought at the Pontifical Gregorian University. I participated in the conference, and it was excellent, provocative, and prayerful.
StAnastasia
— [from Gen. Rabbah 19:1]John oxios;6280180:
Hi Julia,You really fail to understand my point.Satan as serpent was not part of Judaic thinking of Genesis until post-exilic as were the plentitude of demons.what the author of the article has put down involves Apocrypha -written post exilic.It is an evolved concept-not one that was there from the beginning.
Show me the reference for this statement, I’d like to see it. What article? I must have missed the reference? Who wrote it?
The serpent knows (A) that if they eat of the fruit they will be like angels How?
Chumash: Gen 3: 5. For God knows that on the day that you eat thereof, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like angels, knowing good and evil."
Sorry but the serpent is a fallen Angel:
Commentary,
Now the serpent was cunning:
What is the connection of this matter here? Scripture should have juxtaposed (below verse 21): “And He made for Adam and for his wife shirts of skin, and He dressed them.” **But it teaches you as a result of what plan the serpent thrust himself upon them. **He saw them naked and engaging in intercourse before everyone’s eyes, and he desired her. — [from Gen. Rabbah 18:6 cunning, more than all: **Commensurate with its cunning and its greatness, was its downfall- [it was] cunning, more than all, [and it was] cursed, more than all.
(Some branches of Judaism I’m sure does.Just like reincarnation is acceptable to Hasidim and not to other branches)juliamajor;6285913:
knowing good and evil."Hi Julia,
Show me the reference for this statement, I’d like to see it. What article? I must have missed the reference? Who wrote it?
The serpent knows (A) that if they eat of the fruit they will be like angels How?
Chumash: Gen 3: 5. For God knows that on the day that you eat thereof, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like angels,
Sorry but the serpent is a fallen Angelthat is your interpretation.I’ve quoted my sources.Jewish Enclopedia, JPS Torah commentary-it says be like angels- not fallen angels.)
Commentary,
Now the serpent was cunning:
What is the connection of this matter here? Scripture should have juxtaposed (below verse 21): “And He made for Adam and for his wife shirts of skin, and He dressed them.” **But it teaches you as a result of what plan the serpent thrust himself upon them. **He saw them naked and engaging in intercourse before everyone’s eyes, and he desired her. — [from Gen. Rabbah 18:6 cunning, more than all: **Commensurate with its cunning and its greatness, was its downfall- [it was] cunning, more than all, [and it was] cursed, more than all. — [from Gen. Rabbah 19:1](Rabbinic -post biblical age.post exilic,post Temple)
ה. כִּי יֹדֵעַ אֱ־לֹהִים כִּי בְּיוֹם אֲכָלְכֶם מִמֶּנּוּ וְנִפְקְחוּ עֵינֵיכֶם וִהְיִיתֶם כֵּאלֹהִים יֹדְעֵי טוֹב וָרָע:
For God knows: Every craftsman hates his fellow craftsmen. He [God] ate of the tree and created the world (Gen. Rabbah 19:4).(You keep proving my point- these are all post exilic writings-look at the text itself)
** and you will be like angels:
Creators of worlds**. — [from Pirkei d’Rabbi Eliezer , ch. 13]
The serpent knows what will happen if they disobey God, in Jewish literature, Satan is an influencing party, St Michael Battles the prince of persia for what 24 days?
Dan 10:13
And the prince of the kingdom of Persia has been standing against me for twenty-one days, and behold Michael, one of the first princes, has come to help, and I remained there beside the kings of Persia.(Post Exilic)
commentary:
has been standing against me: **to battle with me in heaven **by requesting an extension for the kingdom for Persia to enable them to subjugate you (Israel). Behold twenty-one days that he has been standing against me.
the first princes: those counted first among those who enter.
and I remained there: to silence the princes of Persia in heaven.
God’s Chosen people know about the accuser, adversary, satan, the serpent as forces opposed to God’s will.