Naked Body Scanners

[karbear]

I do not want to go through the body scanners at the airport or get a pat down with inappropriate touching. I also have a plane ticket and want to go visit my mother for Christmas. Should I submit to this? It makes me want to cry thinking about it, but I don’t know if that is simply a preference or there is a moral question involved. I know that modesty tends to decrease with age and experience, but what about the people who are really, extremely uncomfortable with this? Does the Church teach anything about it? Is it immodest? Is it wrong to feel so upset about it?

 

[Romanova]

I don’t believe it’s wrong to be upset about an invasion of privacy like that. There are plenty of passengers who feel the same way you do, judging by the recent outcry and protests against TSA. I agree with you that the choice between having a naked picture of oneself taken or being groped/sexually assaulted is an upsetting choice, and there are many people who do believe that the new policies are an offense against modesty.

Do you have any other way of traveling to your mother’s? Can you drive or take a train? Even if driving will take you an entire day, IMO it is well worth it to avoid the invasion of privacy.

There are several threads going in World News and Family Life about other aspects of the new policies. One thing that has been mentioned repeatedly is that if you don’t like the new security policies, please write to the airlines and explain why it is so upsetting. The airlines, I think, are going to be passengers’ biggest advocate on these new policies – they may not care much about modesty and virtue, but they do care if passengers’ concern about these things impacts their bottom line. (I’m writing a letter right now, actually.)

 

[runningdude]

I’ve had a battery of X-rays and CT scans this year, and I’m mildly upset that I might have to go through more unnecessary radiation from these scanners if I fly in the next few years. Hopefully the airlines and our congressman will listen!

 

[DebChris]

I work overseas. I have been through the scanner on my way back to the states. It does not show the body in the way that most people fear. It did show the first time I went through that I was wearing my rosary under my clothes.
I would be more concerned about “inappropriate touching.”

 

[Myqyl]

I have canceled an upcoming flight informing the airline that I will no longer fly because of these rules. and told them I will travel by train from now on (I hope I don’t have to go coast to coast too often…). If enough people do this, the airlines will fight to keep their customers and TSA will back down. If people walk through like sheep, TSA will come up with even more bizarre humiliations for us to endure.

Boycott air travel in November and December and the scanners will be gone by January.

God bless

 

[karbear]

Thank you for the replies. They have helped me make the decision. Its a two day trip one way and my car has over 200K miles and probably won’t make it. I can’t get a refund. I’m a poor student. I definitely don’t have the time. But…

I do feel that I owe it to my future children not to give in.

I am interested still in the morality of this thing. I know that new situations in modern life soetimes outpace official answers, but if anyone has any official moral guidance about this I am very interested. I guess if it were just about my convenience, I would probably give in. I’m good at dealing with people and could probably get them to give me a morally neutral pat-down. But I don’t know if that is right (in and of itself…other condsiderations aside).

 

[1ke]

I do not want to go through the body scanners at the airport or get a pat down with inappropriate touching.

If you do not want to go through the scanner at an airport that has one (do you even know if your airport has one, they are only at a few airports) then the alternative is a pat down.

If you refuse both, you will not be able to fly.

It is not a “naked scanner” by the way.

I also have a plane ticket and want to go visit my mother for Christmas. Should I submit to this?

That’s up to you.

It makes me want to cry thinking about it, but I don’t know if that is simply a preference or there is a moral question involved. I know that modesty tends to decrease with age and experience, but what about the people who are really, extremely uncomfortable with this?

How is this a modesty issue?

Does the Church teach anything about it?

No

Is it immodest?

No

Is it wrong to feel so upset about it?

Are you upset about it based on facts or hysteria?

 

[karbear]

Your post was unhelpful because you provided nothing but opinion. I’m interested in what the church teaches. If you have authoritative facts that support the idea that i should submit and let someone see me naked (they do show way too much for my comfort) or touch me (I’ve seen the pictures of where people get touched) then let me know. How jaded must a person be to have no problem with this type of intrusion? I have a suspicion that the modesty thing is relative. But there are people out there who are still innocent and would be genuinely scarred by being treated this way. I am one of them. I’m not even sure that I could go through with it. Please keep your opinions to yourself unless they are informative.

 

[RaymondJensen]

It’s never wrong to be upset about being touched in sensitive areas or going through a scan that takes nude photos of yourself. just remember though that jesus said we would have our own crosses to bear. When he said this he meant that through doing what is morally right (in this case i would say visiting the realitive) will have us have to face turmoil (pad downs and nude screens)

 

[karbear]

It’s never wrong to be upset about being touched in sensitive areas or going through a scan that takes nude photos of yourself. just remember though that jesus said we would have our own crosses to bear. When he said this he meant that through doing what is morally right (in this case i would say visiting the realitive) will have us have to face turmoil (pad downs and nude screens)

Thank you. for the reply. It does make sense. Its so hard putting stuff on the web and risking insult just to get a question answered so double thank you for your sensitive reply.

 

[1ke]

Your post was unhelpful because you provided nothing but opinion. I’m interested in what the church teaches.

I have not provided opinion. I have provided fact. The Church does not have a teaching on this topic.

If you have authoritative facts that support the idea that i should submit and let someone see me naked (they do show way too much for my comfort) or touch me (I’ve seen the pictures of where people get touched) then let me know.

It seems that you have opinions, however. And your mind already made up.

And you are free to have them. If you are not comfortable, do not want to go through a scanner or a manual search, then you can choose not to fly.

And, again, I suggested you check the airport to see if the two airports you will be using even have the scanners, most do not. That too is a fact, not an opinion.

How jaded must a person be to have no problem with this type of intrusion? I have a suspicion that the modesty thing is relative. But there are people out there who are still innocent and would be genuinely scarred by being treated this way. I am one of them. I’m not even sure that I could go through with it. Please keep your opinions to yourself unless they are informative.

It seems you want only opinions that agree with your opinion. Perhaps you should not post on a public forum if that is the case.

I’m really not sure why you posted at all if you already decided that you would be too traumatized to walk through the scanner.

It’s your choice.

 

[archangel04]

I could care less about them looking at my body, but I guess thats because i am young and have no shame I would be more worried about that radition the comes from those things, and inappropriate touching. But I think this method is getting way to close to crossing that line, and should be stopped before it goes further.

 

[karbear]

I did check the airports, of course. That is the first thing I did because I didn’t want to get uspet about nothing.

This is a new thing. Of course there isn’t a teaching on scanners. I alluded to that in a previous post. But there must be something in the richness of tradition to help with this…that might apply.

The only opinions that I have expressed are that it is natural for people who are not used to being naked in front of others to feel violated by that…and that perhaps we might owe it to future generations to stand up to that type of intrusion.

I presented my opinion as opinion. I am asking for facts.

I very much did not intend a debate. I am here for information. All you did was give me yes and no replies…not informative. Please, just let it go.

 

[karbear]

I could care less about them looking at my body, but I guess thats because i am young and have no shame I would be more worried about that radition the comes from those things, and inappropriate touching. But I think this method is getting way to close to crossing that line, and should be stopped before it goes further.

It’s funny, I am more worried about the pictures than the touching…Idon’t know why. I agree…the radiation thing is bad.

 

[pnewton]

I did check the airports, of course. That is the first thing I did because I didn’t want to get uspet about nothing.

This is a new thing. Of course there isn’t a teaching on scanners. I alluded to that in a previous post. But there must be something in the richness of tradition to help with this…that might apply.

I am curious to see if there will be some sort of instruction from the USCCB on this. It is regretable that those with objections of a moral conscience will not be able to fly. I too have made the decision not to fly until this is resolved, not so much for myself, as for the privacy of my wife and children.

I am still waiting for the TSA to release its rate of pedophilia.

 

[archangel04]

You guys can also see the bright side, now more people will ride trains or even road trip!! Talk about bringing back the old days lol. Also perhaps this will force airliners to bring their “sinful” prices down as well lol.

 

[dixieagle]

If you do not want to go through the scanner at an airport that has one (do you even know if your airport has one, they are only at a few airports) then the alternative is a pat down.

If you refuse both, you will not be able to fly.

It is not a “naked scanner” by the way.

That’s up to you.

How is this a modesty issue?

No

No

Are you upset about it based on facts or hysteria?

1ke, your response seems insensitive, naive and out of date. Have you even flown recently?

These scanners are not at just a “few” airports; here is a constantly updated thread on a major frequent flyer board:
flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1138014-complete-list-airports-whole-body-imaging-advanced-imaging-technology-scanner.html

The scanners produce an image that is about as close to “nude” as you can get. Have you even looked at the pictures of the scans?

This has nothing whatever to do with “hysteria”. Perhaps you don’t mind some stranger seeing beneath your clothes, or groping your private parts, but that is my idea of a gross invasion of privacy.

And don’t tell me people have a choice not to fly; that is a thoroughly impractical suggestion. Much of the nation’s business depends upon people traveling frequently, quickly, and efficiently for their jobs, making air travel necessary. Plenty of people live too far from family to travel any other way but by flying, if they are ever to see them.

The OP has valid and widely shared concerns.

OP; first of all, check to see what kind of security is employed at the airports you will use. Check that flyer board I linked to; you can ask detailed questions of those folks, as they are frequent flyers with lots of information. Even if your airports employ these scanners, they may be in only one terminal, and not used in every line. You can come up with information that will answer your specific questions.

 

[karbear]

It is regretable that those with objections of a moral conscience will not be able to fly. I too have made the decision not to fly until this is resolved, not so much for myself, as for the privacy of my wife and children.

I am still waiting for the TSA to release its rate of pedophilia.

There is a local talk radio host here in Detroit who said that, while he respects those with moral objections, that they should really excuse themselves from modern life and live like the amish. As if technology and reigion should not mix.

I can definitely see your moral objection as a husband and father. Seriously, what about the children? What about the young teenagers? I can only remember how traumatized I would have been at that age. I must not be the only one. Is there anyone else out there who had a diferent sense of modesty at a young age? Who would really feel like soemthing is being stolen from them to have that happen?

I pose the question not so much to you specifically, but to anyone who cares to answer. What is the moral catholic objection? One post suggested that putting up with humiliation is a part of christian life. That seems true to me. But do we, as a society, have a moral obligation to the young and innocent?

 

[1ke]

1ke, your response seems insensitive, naive and out of date. Have you even flown recently?

Um, yes. In fact, I’ve flown over 15 trips this year, and have 2 more trips before the end of the year. I fly for work all the time.

These scanners are not at just a “few” airports; here is a constantly updated thread on a major frequent flyer board:
flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1138014-complete-list-airports-whole-body-imaging-advanced-imaging-technology-scanner.html

Even in the airports that have scanners, they are not in all terminals or all checkpoints. For example, Bush in Houston has a scanner, but not in Terminal A. Chicago has them, but I see people going through the regular metal detector and NOT the scanner ALL the time.

They are not in nearly “all” the airports or even in “most” of them. And, are not used in “all” the various security lines.

The scanners produce an image that is about as close to “nude” as you can get. Have you even looked at the pictures of the scans?

Yes.

This has nothing whatever to do with “hysteria”. Perhaps you don’t mind some stranger seeing beneath your clothes, or groping your private parts, but that is my idea of a gross invasion of privacy.

I think that this will all be discussed and a solution will be reached. Someone will sue. TSA will back down. People will boycott. Whatever.

In the meantime, for thow confronted with a scanner the choice remains: go through the scanner, do a pat down, or don’t fly. This is just the reality. It’s not being insensitive. Those are the only three choices.

And don’t tell me people have a choice not to fly; that is a thoroughly impractical suggestion. Much of the nation’s business depends upon people traveling frequently, quickly, and efficiently for their jobs, making air travel necessary. Plenty of people live too far from family to travel any other way but by flying, if they are ever to see them.

The OP has valid and widely shared concerns.

OP; first of all, check to see what kind of security is employed at the airports you will use. Check that flyer board I linked to; you can ask detailed questions of those folks, as they are frequent flyers with lots of information. Even if your airports employ these scanners, they may be in only one terminal, and not used in every line. You can come up with information that will answer your specific questions.

The OP asked if the Church had a teaching on the subject. It doesn’t.

The OP asked if she was being immodest if she went through the scanner. She isn’t.

I don’t necessarily agree with the new policies or scanners. But, having traveled over 1.5 times per month all year, as recently as LAST WEEK, I have not encounted anything like what is being reported. So, yes, there is an element of ginning up the hysteria going on in blogs and such.

 

[royal_archer]

Thank you for the replies. They have helped me make the decision. Its a two day trip one way and my car has over 200K miles and probably won’t make it. I can’t get a refund. I’m a poor student. I definitely don’t have the time. But…

I do feel that I owe it to my future children not to give in.

I am interested still in the morality of this thing. I know that new situations in modern life soetimes outpace official answers, but if anyone has any official moral guidance about this I am very interested. I guess if it were just about my convenience, I would probably give in. I’m good at dealing with people and could probably get them to give me a morally neutral pat-down. But I don’t know if that is right (in and of itself…other condsiderations aside).

You may want to let them know that either of those two options are against your religious beliefs. You may also want to contact the airline about a refund stating religious objections and the violation of your civil rights. Even if you don’t get your money back, you will help make your concerns known.