Name one or two ways the Roman Catholic Church has been protestantized
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ibkc
Guest
Actually, there are plenty of evangelical varieties of Methodists, Lutherans and Anglicans which do keep liturgical practices, including the use of altar servers (called “acolytes” outside the Catholic Church) and using the term “Eucharist”. These are no longer considered part of so-called “mainline” Protestantism (see the most recent Pew study on religions in America: religions.pewforum.org/affiliations) as their actual beliefs are more in line with evangelicalism.
Non-sequitur. This thread is more about the loss of Catholic identity via the introduction of Protestant innovations.
But neither have the mainline Protestant liturgical churches yet fallen into those kinds of very basic errors. And the non-liturgical evangelicals/Pentecostals/fundamentalists and the evangelical liturgical churches mentioned above follow other extremely heretical beliefs such as once-saved-always-saved and sola scriptura.
I think what you have demonstrated - inadvertently - is that when any part of Catholic identity is jettisoned, then errors will inevitably creep in. Liturgy + Sacred Scripture + Sacred Tradition = Truth. Remove any of these elements then the equation has a different outcome.
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whatevergirl
Guest
Removing kneelers from parishesIn homilies, priests never speak of Purgatory - ever.
greeting each other during Mass…
In homilies, priests also never address how erroneous the once-saved-always-saved doctrine is… or the prosperity doctrine… etc…
Clapping after mass for the music minister or choir (not a huge pet peeve of mine, but still, people clap after a performance…is mass a performance?)
Clapping DURING mass along with the music
Music seeming more performance like, than mass like
Loud sound systems, and microphones
Recently built churches looking like large auditoriums or conference halls, than churches
To name a few …
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Cat
Guest
Boldface mine–oh,my, I do not agree with this at all. Is this really what you wanted to write or is it a mistype?
Just a few months ago I attended a United Methodist Church (mainline)–my parents in law’s church–and I posted on this board the heretical teaching that the pastor presented in her sermon. She actually stated that Jesus was created by God the Father. And that “the Word” spoken of in John 1 means “peace, love, or joy,” not Jesus Christ, God.
You can check out the websites of many of the mainline denominations and read for yourself the sin that these church present as “good.” The United Church of Christ is especially heinous. They teach that the resurrection is “symbolic,” not real.
And many of these mainline churches are hand-in-hand with NARAL, NOW, and other pro-abortion organizations.
I grew up in the evangelical churches (Conference Baptist) and I still have many of my tracts and pamphlets outlining what some of the “mainline” churches teach that is anti-Scriptural and anti-tradition.
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ibkc
Guest
The website for the United Methodists (umc.org/site/c.lwL4KnN1LtH/b.2299859/k.13B7/Our_Christian_Roots.htm) doesn’t teach what you heard that pastor preach. Sounds like she’s gone off on her own path - but that’s not uncommon these days, unfortunately. There are Catholic priests who do the same thing - but in any case, most of the mainline organizations are not preaching these heresies; it’s rogues in the organization. (Note I say “most” here. There are exceptions.)
I totally agree with you about the UCC; they’re nearly as bad as the Unitarian Universalists these days.
K
kage_ar
Guest
Perhaps this is the case for the Masses you attend, I hear Purgatory and Hell preached about in homilies.
You’d have hated going to Mass in the early Church, they exchanged a KISS, not a handshake like now.greeting each other during Mass….
A homily is not time to teach in depth on apologetics and what is taught by protestants, that is why we have classes and lectures and study groups.
K
kermitz06
Guest
having an amateur rock band instead of a professional choir, that is also up front performing. almost no organs, replaced by said band, or piano, or guitars.
padded kneelers, or no kneelers at all also padded seats, not pews.
Lack of real flowers
padded kneelers, or no kneelers at all also padded seats, not pews.
Lack of real flowers
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LilyM
Guest
Funny - I know plenty of non-Catholics who will on occasion interchangeably attend services of other non-Catholic denominations, yet I don’t know a single one (not a SINGLE one) who interchangeably attends Catholic Mass, of even the most modernised variety.
How come the differences are so clear, and so apparently insuperable, if we are in fact so very ‘protestantized’? hmmm?
How come the differences are so clear, and so apparently insuperable, if we are in fact so very ‘protestantized’? hmmm?
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bkovacs
Guest
The Novus Ordo Mass for starts.
Most priests don’t understand any Latin.
Altar Girls
EMHC
Novus Ordo Mass music is mainly contemproary music. No Chant at all.
Hardly any modern day Sisters or Nuns wear their habits.
I could go on and on!.
Most priests don’t understand any Latin.
Altar Girls
EMHC
Novus Ordo Mass music is mainly contemproary music. No Chant at all.
Hardly any modern day Sisters or Nuns wear their habits.
I could go on and on!.
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graceandglory
Guest
That just really reminds me of this:Clapping DURING mass along with the music…
“what a mighty God we serve”
you have to know that chorus in order to smile and clap along.
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Tsuwano
Guest
I don’t know what you mean by “Protestantized.” The Church is and always has been Catholic.
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thunderballs75
Guest
Clapping during/after mass.
Standing during communion (in the hand).
Contemporary music.
DRUMS AND GUITARS! >_<
Liturgical dancing.
“Vibrant” liturgies.
Turning the “pax” into a socialized party.
Standing during communion (in the hand).
Contemporary music.
DRUMS AND GUITARS! >_<
Liturgical dancing.
“Vibrant” liturgies.
Turning the “pax” into a socialized party.
J
Joannm
Guest
The reason is that it is a different vocation. I have worked in diaconcate formation and I would say that 99.9% of the men had no clue they were going to have a call to the diaconate when they were younger. They had a call to marriage and later on discoverd the call to further serve God as a deacon. Perhaps some felt a pull toward the priesthood as a youth but discerened that God wanted them to marry. I have never ever met a deacon who said “No, I am not going to be a priest, I’ll get married and be a deacon.” It doesn’t work that way. The diaconte also is not meant as a solution to the lack of priestly vocations. It is a return to the ancient order of deacons,which was not necessarily a step to the priesthood. Also, in reality, there are very few things that a deacons can to that a lay person cannot do (although some may be only in exceptional cirumstances). So a call to the diaconate is a call to Holy Orders but not to priesthood, as there are many more things a priest can do that a deacon cannot. It is a completely different order.
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maurin
Guest
Excellent!
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CradleCath
Guest
I agree & will add one more thing. I’ve seen too many deacons give erroneous information, especially on the internet, while using their title to lend authority to their statements.
As for the ways that the Catholic Church has become Protestantized:
- Our children now attend the same public schools that Protestant children attend. (Very few of us are willing to make the sacrifices that our parents did… in order to send our children to Catholic schools. After all, we must have that nice home in the suburbs, that second car, the two T.V,'s, etc. )
This results are more Catholic/Protestant marriages, which often results a watered-
down sort of faith. (Not always, but often.) - With our religious orders for women all but gone, there is no place for ladies within the Church to give their whole being to Christ/the Church exclusively. (Perhaps that’s why we’re seeing woman wanting to be priests??? After all, the Protestant sects have female ministers.)
- Our devotions (rosaries, devotion to the saints, litanies, Novenas, Benediction, etc). have been seen as “embarrassments” by many Catholics during these years following Vatican II. It has been many, MANY years since Benediction has been offered in my previous parish.
- Our own Catholic music is all but gone. Tantum Ergo has given way to “Amazing Grace”.
- The very atmosphere in Church is different. Before Mass, people are visiting…after Mass they bolt for the door. Of course, no one really knows where the Tabernacle is…so reverence isn’t demanded. Since it isn’t demanded, it seems to have gone the way of “Church clothes”. (pre-Vatican II people will understand the reference to “Church clothes”.
- One of my Catholic Grandchildren asked me what incense “was”. .
- Confession is just SOOOO Catholic. Get rid of those boxes. Strip from the Church, all of the Altar rails, the kneelers, the Crucifix is to be replaced by the Risen Christ, the statues & for goodness sakes…get rid of those Mass prayers that plead for forgivness, after all…modern man is better than that and why would God need such a Sacrifice as His own Son, He’s like a kindly old Grandfather who says of our sins, as He pats on the head…I “understand”, don’t worry about it.
Thank God & Pope Benedict for beginning to turn this around. But, it’s going to take time. We have, at least, one generation who knows nothing about their heritage or their culture as Catholics & that isn’t their fault. It’s the fault of my generation.
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Chiltepin
Guest
Most of the things I can think of have already been said, so I will offer just this one way.
1.) This move toward “protestantization” has created among the ranks of Catholics a kind of polarized infighting wherein we see official and unofficial spin-offs at both ends. SSPX, Catholic Charismatics and so on.
As traditionalists we think we have it right, and with tradition on our side we how could we be wrong? The trouble is everyone else either believes they are right, or simply cannot see the harm in their preferences/changes. You have to know whats missing to see the damage.
1.) This move toward “protestantization” has created among the ranks of Catholics a kind of polarized infighting wherein we see official and unofficial spin-offs at both ends. SSPX, Catholic Charismatics and so on.
As traditionalists we think we have it right, and with tradition on our side we how could we be wrong? The trouble is everyone else either believes they are right, or simply cannot see the harm in their preferences/changes. You have to know whats missing to see the damage.
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Brenda_V
Guest
Goodness, this indeed turned into a thread about all the errors that have happened in some Catholic Parishes but many of them I see are not even protestant in nature, just humans trying to make Mass about themselves instead of God the Father, God the Son - Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit!
Many Parishes are turning this around, the sign of Peace is not a big production like it used to be, we are singing some Latin and reverence is seen once others enter into the Sanctuary - we are working on that in the Mission Parish’s new building which will eventually be our Parish Hall. Think temporary quarters with chairs and concrete floors, no kneelers but better than half the Mass goers kneel at the appropriate times and the rest of us stand because that is what is called for! We have to conduct CCD in that room, we work with our children in reminding them that Jesus is present in the Tabernacle on the Altar and if we have a snack we go out into the foyer for it. So even in not so ideal conditions if people are taught right they will show the respect and this is where the Parish Priest must step in and remind people, even if he has to make an announcement 15 mins. before every Mass to remind people to be quiet as they are in the Sanctuary. So you see, you can get reverence out of people even in less than ideal circumstances.
You want a protestant innovation? How about the use of Pews! If any of you have been in any of the old Cathedrals and Churches in Europe you will find nary a pew, yes, the Faithful stood and knelt, they did not sit.
Brenda V.
Many Parishes are turning this around, the sign of Peace is not a big production like it used to be, we are singing some Latin and reverence is seen once others enter into the Sanctuary - we are working on that in the Mission Parish’s new building which will eventually be our Parish Hall. Think temporary quarters with chairs and concrete floors, no kneelers but better than half the Mass goers kneel at the appropriate times and the rest of us stand because that is what is called for! We have to conduct CCD in that room, we work with our children in reminding them that Jesus is present in the Tabernacle on the Altar and if we have a snack we go out into the foyer for it. So even in not so ideal conditions if people are taught right they will show the respect and this is where the Parish Priest must step in and remind people, even if he has to make an announcement 15 mins. before every Mass to remind people to be quiet as they are in the Sanctuary. So you see, you can get reverence out of people even in less than ideal circumstances.
You want a protestant innovation? How about the use of Pews! If any of you have been in any of the old Cathedrals and Churches in Europe you will find nary a pew, yes, the Faithful stood and knelt, they did not sit.
Brenda V.
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Faith_at_Large
Guest
Greeting during the Mass, if you are referring to the shaking of hands (peace greeting), this is not a Protestant invention, but an ancient part of the Mass that comes from the earliest Christians. It used to be with a kiss, but later evolved into a handshake - since this is a cultural thing as well as a Christian thing, there is nothing wrong with that change - the intent is the same.In homilies, priests never speak of Purgatory - ever.
greeting each other during Mass…
In homilies, priests also never address how erroneous the once-saved-always-saved doctrine is… or the prosperity doctrine… etc…
If any Masses do not have this greeting as described above, then these are the ones who have “Protestantized” in that area.
As for the rest, I agree that there are many priests who are too uncomfortable with preaching about sin and purgatory and hell. I was lucky to have been in a parish where our Polish priest (now retired) was very upfront about everything. The confessionals were always very busy on Saturdays, and the Masses full all week long.
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