NamGuy69's Real Relationship?

[JoeyWarren]

Originally Posted by namguy69
Oh boy, I have a ’ real realstionship ’ with my Savior. Is it because or through the Holy Eucharest, absoultely not. I know where I’m going when I die…do you?

You really know with 100% certitude where you are going?

The Apostle Paul did not seem to think so. He was always hoping.

A note about scripture. The words “Shall” and “Will” are contingency words and futuritve in nature.

Now if scripture actually say “Are Saved” instead of “Will be Saved” or “Shall be saved” then you would have 100% certitude of knowing where you going, even then I would not be so certain.

Do you meet all the Biblical Requirements for admission into Heaven?

There are over a hundered requirements that mus be met.

Here are some of the more common ones:

Proper Tithing
Feeding the Hungry
Quenching the Thirsty
Visiting the Imprisoned ( this is on that most Protestant churches I have questioned don’t have, They don’t have a Prison Ministry )
Visiting the Sick
Cloting the Naked.
Loving your Enemies…
Confess your sins to each other…
etc, etc, etc

My mom and stepdad and dad and stepmon are living in a state of petual sin. Mom and Dad both had valid baptisms before their very valid marriage and they ended up divoricing and remarrying.

A good percentage of ex-catholics turned protestant fall under this category because of modernism.

My bible tells me some may not be going to heaven:**Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.**If some have no life, how can some possibly make it heaven?

 

[mom2three]

You really know with 100% certitude where you are going?

The Apostle Paul did not seem to think so. He was always hoping.

A note about scripture. The words “Shall” and “Will” are contingency words and futuritve in nature.

Now if scripture actually say “Are Saved” instead of “Will be Saved” or “Shall be saved” then you would have 100% certitude of knowing where you going, even then I would not be so certain.

Do you meet all the Biblical Requirements for admission into Heaven?

There are over a hundered requirements that mus be met.

Here are some of the more common ones:

Proper Tithing
Feeding the Hungry
Quenching the Thirsty
Visiting the Imprisoned ( this is on that most Protestant churches I have questioned don’t have, They don’t have a Prison Ministry )
Visiting the Sick
Cloting the Naked.
Loving your Enemies…
Confess your sins to each other…
etc, etc, etc

My mom and stepdad and dad and stepmon are living in a state of petual sin. Mom and Dad both had valid baptisms before their very valid marriage and they ended up divoricing and remarrying.

A good percentage of ex-catholics turned protestant fall under this category because of modernism.

My bible tells me some may not be going to heaven:**Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.**If some have no life, how can some possibly make it heaven?

In addition:

Matthew 7:21-23
21"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Matthew 24:12-13
12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Romans 11:22
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

1 Cor 10:11-12
11These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!

We can be sure of salvation if we walk in faith and keep the commandments…

Galatians 5:6
6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

We should not limit our salvation to a one time event… The Bible clearly tells us we have been saved, are being saved and will be saved… we must “endure to the end” (Mt 10:22, Mt 24:1)!

 

[Santos]

Matthew 7:21-23
21"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

NamGuy69’s Real Relationship? WOW NamGuy69, you got your own Thread… Congratulations :clapping:

JoeyWarren gave you some great scriptual truths which reflects a judgment according to deeds, and not a simple profession to faith. Remember even the demonds new Christ as Lord, they to are believers (Mt 8:29) “What is there between us, Son of God? Have you come to torment us before our time?”

mom2three gave you some great bible references. You should research the information given to you. Read Mt 19:16-17 Christ tells the rich young man that he must keep the commandments in order to gain eternal life.

Christ teachings of Salvation have been taught in this way for 2000 years. The assurance of salvation by faith alone is a very new docrine which was never heard of by Christians before the 1500’s.

So my question to you is are you going to put your faith in a new doctrine not taught by Christ or any other Christian prior to 1500, or are you going to take St. Paul’s advice and: “work out your salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12)?

I personally chose to work out my salvation with fear and trembling, and I am not assured of my salvation, like St. Paul (1 Cor 9:27) “I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified”.

Now go get your Catholic Book “the Bible” (The New Testament was written, copied, and collected by Catholic Christians in the fourth century) and start studying the Gospels which the Catholics gave to you also.

Martin Luther himself admits, “We are obliged to yield many things to the Catholics, that they posses the Word of God which we received from them, otherwise we should have known nothing at all about it”

God Bless

 

[Damascus]

I have read most of nameguy’s posts here. :banghead:

There is no talking to him.

 

[Melchior]

Now go get your Catholic Book “the Bible” (The New Testament was written, copied, and collected by Catholic Christians in the fourth century) and start studying the Gospels which the Catholics gave to you also.

One quibble - the New Testament was written by the apostles and their close associates in the first century. The rest is true enough.

Mel

 

[Santos]

One quibble - the New Testament was written by the apostles and their close associates in the first century. The rest is true enough.

Mel

:bible1: You are absolutely right. The first words of the New Testament was written around 50 AD (1 Thess), the last word between 90-100 AD (Rev). Yet I present the facts that these early Christians were well recognized as Catholic Christians. St. Ignatius of Antioch (110 AD) uses the word Catholic to distinguish Christ’s Church from heretical groups.

By 110 AD St. Ignatius’ letter proves that the original Christians were already well known as Catholic Christians. Thus establishing that the Apostles themselves were considered Catholic Christians, as we have our first pope, St. Peter (Kepha) Rock.

I guess it could be debatable but I have to persist that the New Testament was written, copied and collected by Catholic Christians.

St. Ignatius (110 AD): “wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”

St. Athanasius (360 AD): “let us note that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded; and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian…”

 

[noma]

My bible tells me some may not be going to heaven:**Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.**If some have no life, how can some possibly make it heaven?

“As Augustine says, explaining John 6:54, this food and this drink, namely of His flesh and blood: He would have us understand the fellowship of His body and members, which is the Church in His predestined, and called, and justified, and glorified, His holy and believing ones. Hence he says in his Epistle to Boniface: 'No one should entertain the slightest doubt, that then every one of the faithful becomes a partaker in the body and blood of Christ, when in Baptism he is made a member of Christ’s body; nor is he deprived of his share in that body and chalice even though he depart from this world in the unity of Christ’s body, before he eats that bread and drinks that chalice.” - St Thomas Aquinas (Rep. Obj. 1, Q. 73, Art. 3, from Part III)

 

[Safe_Eagle]

A great man once said “To know history is to cease to be Protestant” I think it was cardinal Newman. Anyhow one thing I have found with Protestants for the most part is they avoid talking history. History supports the Catholic church. It’s very difficult for them to understand that christian devotion is so much more than making the alter profession and listening to a very animated speaker and reading the bible.

 

[wildleafblower]

Joh 6:53 B]

*15. The sacramental re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice, crowned by the resurrection, in the Mass involves a most special presence which – in the words of Paul VI – “is called ‘real’ not as a way of excluding all other types of presence as if they were ‘not real’, but because it is a presence in the fullest sense: a substantial presence whereby Christ, the God-Man, is wholly and entirely present”.22 This sets forth once more the perennially valid teaching of the Council of Trent: “the consecration of the bread and wine effects the change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord, and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. And the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called this change transubstantiation”.23 Truly the Eucharist is a mysterium fidei, a mystery which surpasses our understanding and can only be received in faith, as is often brought out in the catechesis of the Church Fathers regarding this divine sacrament: “Do not see – Saint Cyril of Jerusalem exhorts – in the bread and wine merely natural elements, because the Lord has expressly said that they are his body and his blood: faith assures you of this, though your senses suggest otherwise”.24

Adoro te devote, latens Deitas, we shall continue to sing with the Angelic Doctor. Before this mystery of love, human reason fully experiences its limitations. One understands how, down the centuries, this truth has stimulated theology to strive to understand it ever more deeply.

These are praiseworthy efforts, which are all the more helpful and insightful to the extent that they are able to join critical thinking to the “living faith” of the Church, as grasped especially by the Magisterium’s “sure charism of truth” and the “intimate sense of spiritual realities”25 which is attained above all by the saints. There remains the boundary indicated by Paul VI: “Every theological explanation which seeks some understanding of this mystery, in order to be in accord with Catholic faith, must firmly maintain that in objective reality, independently of our mind, the bread and wine have ceased to exist after the consecration, so that the adorable body and blood of the Lord Jesus from that moment on are really before us under the sacramental species of bread and wine”.26

1. The saving efficacy of the sacrifice is fully realized when the Lord’s body and blood are received in communion. The Eucharistic Sacrifice is intrinsically directed to the inward union of the faithful with Christ through communion; we receive the very One who offered himself for us, we receive his body which he gave up for us on the Cross and his blood which he “poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins” (Mt 26:28). We are reminded of his words: “As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me” (Jn 6:57). Jesus himself reassures us that this union, which he compares to that of the life of the Trinity, is truly realized. The Eucharist is a true banquet, in which Christ offers himself as our nourishment. When for the first time Jesus spoke of this food, his listeners were astonished and bewildered, which forced the Master to emphasize the objective truth of his words: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life within you” (Jn 6:53). This is no metaphorical food: “My flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed” (Jn 6:55).
2. Through our communion in his body and blood, Christ also grants us his Spirit. Saint Ephrem writes: “He called the bread his living body and he filled it with himself and his Spirit…

He who eats it with faith, eats Fire and Spirit… Take and eat this, all of you, and eat with it the Holy Spirit. For it is truly my body and whoever eats it will have eternal life”.27 The Church implores this divine Gift, the source of every other gift, in the Eucharistic epiclesis. In the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom, for example, we find the prayer: “We beseech, implore and beg you: send your Holy Spirit upon us all and upon these gifts… that those who partake of them may be purified in soul, receive the forgiveness of their sins, and share in the Holy Spirit”.28 And in the Roman Missal the celebrant prays: “grant that we who are nourished by his body and blood may be filled with his Holy Spirit, and become one body, one spirit in Christ”.29 Thus by the gift of his body and blood Christ increases within us the gift of his Spirit, already poured out in Baptism and bestowed as a “seal” in the sacrament of Confirmation. * (ENCYCLICAL LETTER ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA OF HIS HOLINESS POPE JOHN PAUL II TO THE BISHOPS PRIESTS AND DEACONS MEN AND WOMEN IN THE CONSECRATED LIFE AND ALL THE LAY FAITHFUL ON THE EUCHARIST IN ITS RELATIONSHIP TO THE CHURCH, excerpt from CHAPTER ONE, THE MYSTERY OF FAITH)

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_17042003_ecclesia-de-eucharistia_en.html

 

[JoeyWarren]

The Protestants also are not able to distinguish between “Works of the Law” and “Works of Faith” or sometimes called “Works of the Righteous”.

NamGuy69, I would direct your attention to the last book of the Bible. Revelations. Here Jesus is speaking to us again directly. Jesus appears not to put too much stock in faith as he does with works.

Take note of the following verses concerning works.

Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:9** I know thy works**, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Rev 2:19** I know thy works**, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars;** I know thy works**, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for** I have not found thy works perfect before God.**

Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

TAKE HEED, WITH THE FINAL STATEMENT OF JUDGEMENT AND REWARD. WE ARE JUDGED BY OUR WORKS. NO MENTION IS THERE OF BEING JUDGED AND REWARDED BY ONE’S FAITH.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Every person probably has a book in heaven that has recorded his works good and evil.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.