'Narnia represents everything that is most hateful about religion'

[Ryniev]

“After all, 43% of people in Britain in a recent poll couldn’t say what Easter celebrated. Among the young - apart from those in faith schools - that number must be considerably higher. Ask art galleries: they now have to write the story of every religious painting on the label as people no longer know what “agony in the garden”, “deposition”, “transfiguration” or “ascension” mean. This may be regrettable cultural ignorance”

Actually, she said “this may be” and she actually does sound happy that the number is considerably higher, IMO. In regards to me talking to atheists, it’s true I don’t know many IRL but I do have a lot of friends who aren’t religious and I am going to see this movie with my Unitarian who celebrates the Muslim sabbath every Friday night with another friend of ours, does that count.

Oh and bringing a barf bag to the movie sounds rather anti-religious to me.

 

[wisdom_3_5]

• Christ should surely be no lion

Funny, I thought one of his titles was Lion of Judah.

(let alone with the orotund voice of Liam Neeson). He was the lamb, representing the meek of the earth, weak, poor and refusing to fight.

What about the money changers in the temple? What about separating the lambs from the goats? What about Christ coming to judge the world? Jesus went to his death like a lamb to the slaughter, but that’s not all it is to be a Christian. We are called to evangelize and be the salt of the earth.

Philip Pullman - he of the marvellously secular trilogy His Dark Materials - has called Narnia “one of the most ugly, poisonous things I have ever read”.

**Phillip Pullman is an athiest, I’m not surprised she likes his work.

I don’t know how the author feels about the Harry Potter series. I know that Rowling based one of her characters in Chamber of Secrets on Phillip Pullman, he wasn’t a well-liked or very moral character either.

---

 

[gilliam]

* *
***Phillip Pullman is an athiest, I’m not surprised she likes his work. ***

I don’t know how the author feels about the Harry Potter series. I know that Rowling based one of her characters in Chamber of Secrets on Phillip Pullman, he wasn’t a well-liked or very moral character either.
**

Which character?

 

[MikeWM]

Responses to Ms Toynbee in the letters in today’s Guardian:

film.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/Guardian/0,1659023,00.html

Mike

 

[MikeWM]

“After all, 43% of people in Britain in a recent poll couldn’t say what Easter celebrated. Among the young - apart from those in faith schools - that number must be considerably higher. Ask art galleries: they now have to write the story of every religious painting on the label as people no longer know what “agony in the garden”, “deposition”, “transfiguration” or “ascension” mean. This may be regrettable cultural ignorance”

Actually, she said “this may be” and she actually does sound happy that the number is considerably higher, IMO.

I still don’t get that impression, but I can see that it is possible to do so.

In regards to me talking to atheists, it’s true I don’t know many IRL but I do have a lot of friends who aren’t religious and I am going to see this movie with my Unitarian who celebrates the Muslim sabbath every Friday night with another friend of ours, does that count.

It sounds interesting enough

I am qute serious though in that this seemed quite mild to me. I guess I’ve been exposed to more anti-religious rhetoric than some here.

Oh and bringing a barf bag to the movie sounds rather anti-religious to me.

It sounds silly to me but then I’ve always thought ‘barf’ was a stupid word to begin with

Mike

 

[JGheen]

MikeWM:

Hopefully, though probably many will miss the point. I know I did first time around. I only ‘got it’ in the last few pages of The Last Battle, and by that point it couldn’t exactly be made any plainer

Personally, I don’t see how anyone could miss the symbolism . . . after seeing a preview for the movie, my non-practicing hubby said “There’s an original script, where’d they get it from - - the bible?”

I had to explain to him that C.S. Lewis wrote the book which is now a movie.

 

[MikeWM]

JGheen:

Personally, I don’t see how anyone could miss the symbolism . . . after seeing a preview for the movie, my non-practicing hubby said “There’s an original script, where’d they get it from - - the bible?”

No, well I don’t understand how I missed it either, hence the embarassed face

I was only about 8, I suppose, but still…

Mike

 

[JGheen]

MikeWM:

Yes - but an opinion that many share.

Do you really think there are people who say, “who asked God to die for our sins?”

To ask this question, you first have to acknowledge God, the existence of sin as well as God’s love and sacrifice for us. It seems to me that no one (save devil worshipers) could acknowledge this and find fault with God’s plan. Knowing these things almost compels you to believe.

Maybe I’m wrong though. It just seems that American non-religious say there is no God, or find fault with some Church policy. While I don’t agree, at least these arguments make more logical sense to me.

This reminds of me of the song “What if God was One of Us?” by Joan Osbourne which was popular a few years ago. There is a line in the song that says:

“If God had a face what would it look like
And would you want to see
If seeing meant that you would have to believe
In things like heaven and in Jesus and the saints and all the prophets.”

lyricsondemand.com/onehitwonders/ifgodwasoneofuslyrics.html

 

[JGheen]

MikeWM:

No, well I don’t understand how I missed it either, hence the embarassed face

I was only about 8, I suppose, but still…

Mike

Being 8 definately excuses you . . .

 

[Viki59]

Lewis wrote the Narnia series, secondly, to help baptize the imaginations of readers.(First, because it’s a good story) I am one who it worked on very well, as I read *The Silver Chair * as a child and was so impressed with the worldview it conveyed that I read Lewis’ apologetics as an adult, and converted.

It might be better if churches in the US would softpedal the Christian connection to the Narnia movie. It’s supposed to be a subtle connection, not overtly religious, which I understand the director tried to do. People don’t like having their noses rubbed in religiosity.

Us Americans aren’t noted for our subtlety, I guess.

 

[wisdom_3_5]

gilliam:

Which character?

Gilderoy Lockhart.

 

[MikeWM]

JGheen:

Do you really think there are people who say, “who asked God to die for our sins?”

To ask this question, you first have to acknowledge God, the existence of sin as well as God’s love and sacrifice for us. It seems to me that no one (save devil worshipers) could acknowledge this and find fault with God’s plan. Knowing these things almost compels you to believe.

I think basically you are correct in that specific criticism, but it is a question someone who may have been brought up as a Catholic and then rejected it may well say.

I never thought quite that specifically, but obviously when I was away from the Church I was able to ‘justify’ my point of view using my knowledge of Christianity and ‘what is wrong with it’.

The question to me shows that she is knowledgeable of what the Church teaches, and yet rejects it. I don’t know enough of Ms Toynbee to know if she went to a Christian school or was raised in a Christian family, but I’m suspecting it.

This reminds of me of the song “What if God was One of Us?” by Joan Osbourne which was popular a few years ago.

Oh great, thanks, that’ll be in my head for the rest of the night now

Mike

 

[Teen_Catholic]

So the question I’ve been dying to ask is…

Does she need a re-factory period for her venom?

 

[Lissla_Lissar]

Huh. I didn’t know that Rowling was such an admirer of Pullman’s.Oh, and to whomever said they were stuck in the middle of His Dark Materials, the last book is the weakest, in my opinion. Also the most evangelically athiest. God is dead and that’s happy! We’ll all turn into atoms! Yay!

 

[wisdom_3_5]

Lissla Lissar:

Huh. I didn’t know that Rowling was such an admirer of Pullman’s.Oh, and to whomever said they were stuck in the middle of His Dark Materials, the last book is the weakest, in my opinion. Also the most evangelically athiest. God is dead and that’s happy! We’ll all turn into atoms! Yay!

Actually, she’s not an admirer at all. Lockhart is not a very good/nice character at all. He seems harmless but he’s not. And I think that’s what she’s connecting with him.

Look at this site, you have to page down to get to “The significance of Gilderoy Lockhart”
ev90481.dial.pipex.com/harry_potter_granger.htm

 

[JGheen]

MikeWM:

Oh great, thanks, that’ll be in my head for the rest of the night now

Mike

My sincere apologies! :bowdown:

Hang in there, Mike. I’m an American but I lived in England for a while. The environment can be rough on the spiritual life!

 

[MikeWM]

Lissla Lissar:

Oh, and to whomever said they were stuck in the middle of His Dark Materials, the last book is the weakest, in my opinion. Also the most evangelically athiest. God is dead and that’s happy! We’ll all turn into atoms! Yay!

Hmm. Well, I’ll find out if I ever manage to get to reading it again, it’s been about 6 months now since I put it down.

At least it is quite clear it is fiction, whatever Mr Pullman’s beliefs. Unlike a certain other book named partly after a famous artist we could mention…

Mike

 

[MikeWM]

JGheen:

My sincere apologies! :bowdown:

It wasn’t as bad as I feared actually. I remember when that song first came out though, it was on continuous loop in my head for hours every time after I heard it.

Hang in there, Mike. I’m an American but I lived in England for a while. The environment can be rough on the spiritual life!

Thanks but I’m doing ok. I’m an Englishman who lived in the US for a while. Each has plus and minus points. For the most part, I think we have nicer church buildings, for example

Mike

 

[JGheen]

Thanks but I’m doing ok. I’m an Englishman who lived in the US for a while. Each has plus and minus points. For the most part, I think we have nicer church buildings, for example
Mike

The USA is definitely better!

Just kidding. If I really wanted to pick a fight, I’d say that Oxford is much better then Cambridge . . .

I lived in Oxford and the Catholic Church I attended was not as nice as my Church in the States. Some of the Anglican churches were impressive, but the Catholic ones were kind of hidden away.

 

[MikeWM]

JGheen:

The USA is definitely better!

Just kidding. If I really wanted to pick a fight, I’d say that Oxford is much better then Cambridge . . .

You’d be wrong though

Interestingly, I find most Cambridge students are pretty ambivalent about Oxford students, whereas Oxford students are bothered enough about Cambridge students to have a derogatory name for them - ‘tabs’ (after ‘Cantab.’, the abbreviated ancient name for the city).

I lived in Oxford and the Catholic Church I attended was not as nice as my Church in the States. Some of the Anglican churches were impressive, but the Catholic ones were kind of hidden away.

Did you go to St Aloysius? I’ve not been to a service there, but it seems a very nice Church. I don’t know the other Catholic churches in Oxford. Still, Our Lady and the English Martyrs in Cambridge is the church to go to

Mike