Narrow road vs wide road

[Soutane]

If Christ stated that the road to heaven is narrow and difficult and the road to hell is wide and easy,how does that square with the affirmation that one is “saved” by repeating a prayer that does not appear anywhere in Holy Scripture or by simply acknowledging that Christ died for our sins?This belief seems to contradict Christ’s words.

 

[Soutane]

Bump

 

[sandusky]

If Christ stated that the road to heaven is narrow and difficult and the road to hell is wide and easy,how does that square with the affirmation that one is “saved” by repeating a prayer that does not appear anywhere in Holy Scripture or by simply acknowledging that Christ died for our sins?

Do you mean the “Hail Mary???”

 

[Trishie]

Do you mean the “Hail Mary???”

If so, the first half is scriptural…but who claims one is ‘saved’ by saying it? We’re saved by Christ! I think we need some clarification from Soutane In any case not merely faith is required of us, but faith and good works! Supporting scripture texts pending if needed!!!

 

[Eucharisted]

Faith without works is dead.

 

[Soutane]

Do you mean the “Hail Mary???”

One is not saved by the Hail Mary,and no Catholic is obligated to recite it.

But you know that.

 

[Soutane]

If so, the first half is scriptural…but who claims one is ‘saved’ by saying it? We’re saved by Christ! I think we need some clarification from Soutane In any case not merely faith is required of us, but faith and good works! Supporting scripture texts pending if needed!!!

I guess what I am saying is that ,is it sufficient to only acknowledge that Christ died for one’s sins in order to be saved-That doesn’t sound very difficult to me.In fact it sounds easy but it also appears to contradict Christ’s admonition that the road to heaven is narrow and difficult.What did Christ MEAN by this.To my mind it means that one must live one’s faith especially with regard to Love or Charity which necessitates works.You know,as in James wherein we are advised that Faith without works is dead.

Catholics are often accused of believing in a works-based salvation which is bogus.We are saved by Grace which we must co-operate with.Works will not save us but we will not be saved without works-our faith lived.Make any sense?

 

[sandusky]

Soutane:

I guess what I am saying is that ,is it sufficient to only acknowledge that Christ died for one’s sins in order to be saved-That doesn’t sound very difficult to me.

In fact it sounds easy but it also appears to contradict Christ’s admonition that the road to heaven is narrow and difficult.What did Christ MEAN by this.To my mind it means that one must live one’s faith especially with regard to Love or Charity which necessitates works.You know,as in James wherein we are advised that Faith without works is dead.

And don’t forget the difficulty of going to Mass every week and partaking of the sacraments.

Soutane:

Catholics are often accused of believing in a works-based salvation which is bogus.We are saved by Grace which we must co-operate with.Works will not save us but we will not be saved without works-our faith lived.Make any sense?

And unconfessed mortal-sin-bad-works will condemn you to hell; therefore, your idea of salvation is works-based.

Soutane:

We are saved by Grace which we must co-operate with.

The Catholic ***“merits grace”—***An oxymoron.

One of the purposes of the oxymoronic meriting of grace is clear:

From the CCC para 2010:

"we can then merit…graces…for the attainment of eternal life."We…merit…grace…for the attainment of eternal life.

 

[Soutane]

And don’t forget the difficulty of going to Mass every week and partaking of the sacraments.

And unconfessed mortal-sin-bad-works will condemn you to hell; therefore, your idea of salvation is works-based.

The Catholic ***“merits grace”—***An oxymoron.

One of the purposes of the oxymoronic meriting of grace is clear:

From the CCC para 2010:

"we can then merit…graces…for the attainment of eternal life."We…merit…grace…for the attainment of eternal life.

(sigh)We really DO speak different languages.My question was about Christ’s admonition that the way to heaven was difficult which seems to conflict with for example recitation of the sinner’s prayer and poof you’re saved and that that presumptive salvation can never be lost…

 

[emarc]

And don’t forget the difficulty of going to Mass every week and partaking of the sacraments.

And unconfessed mortal-sin-bad-works will condemn you to hell; therefore, your idea of salvation is works-based.

The Catholic ***“merits grace”—***An oxymoron.

One of the purposes of the oxymoronic meriting of grace is clear:

From the CCC para 2010:

"we can then merit…graces…for the attainment of eternal life."We…merit…grace…for the attainment of eternal life.

did you deliberately misquoted the CCC? 2010 says:
Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.

there’s a big difference from what you quoted.
God bless.

 

[sandusky]

(sigh)We really DO speak different languages.

We certainly do.

Soutane:

My question was about Christ’s admonition that the way to heaven was difficult which seems to conflict with for example recitation of the sinner’s prayer and poof you’re saved and that that presumptive salvation can never be lost…

You assume, without support, that the sinner’s prayer saves, and that belief in the testimony of scripture that salvation cannot be lost is presumptive.

 

[Soutane]

We certainly do. You assume, without support, that the sinner’s prayer saves, and that belief in the testimony of scripture that salvation cannot be lost is presumptive.

I think that many non-Catholic Christians DO believe that it saves.

Scripture does NOT testify that salvation cannot be lost.I’ll trust the teaching of Holy Mother Church on this issue rather than a fallible Reader of selected verses.

 

[sandusky]

I think that many non-Catholic Christians DO believe that it saves.

I know that many Catholics DO believe that keeping the commandments and being a good person saves.

Soutane:

Scripture does NOT testify that salvation cannot be lost.I’ll trust the teaching of Holy Mother Church on this issue rather than a fallible Reader of selected verses.

Believe what you will.

 

[1edyson]

I know that many Catholics DO believe that keeping the commandments and being a good person saves.

Believe what you will.

I wonder why? Matt 19 16-17

Now someone approached him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?” He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. 13 If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

[Soutane]

I know that many Catholics DO believe that keeping the commandments and being a good person saves.

Believe what you will.

I believe that I will not get to heaven EXCEPT through Christ.I also believe in a Faith in Christ that is lived and not just an acknowledgement.Good works will NOT get you into heaven but a lack of them MAY keep you out.

Believe what YOU will.I’ll trust in the Church Christ founded and trusted with the TRUTH.Matt 9 16-17.