Nasty PM that was sent to me about the Vatican and Catholicism in general

[thunderbolt94]

Hello,

Recently, I was sent a PM (not this website but a different) in regards to the Vatican and Catholicism after the person went on about how I"m evil and that I’m evil for even considering joining the Catholic church (which is what I plan to do after I go through RCIA in the fall and be confirmed next Easter).

Here is the PM (I do not list the person’s name):

"I really feel you strawmanned me on this, and I feel I’ve accounted for why this is not bigotry, and for people to think of Catholocism as a victim is laughable. If Catholic people are ever victims - of something other than themsselves, eachother and their own religion - such a decedantly rich, obcenely powerful tyrant as the Pope could surely help if he gave two ****s about you? But no, he taxes poor Catholics via the collection plate to fill the Vatican bank even further. More than half the ‘charity’ money raised by Mother Teresa (the fraud) went straight to the Vatican bank; it’s a fact, you can check. Then there’s the twelve million pounds owed to the British taxpayer.

What you are doing, other than falling for a transparent con, is putting your name to suffering and death amounting to a 9/11 on an hourly basis (among the biggest causes of preventable death in the world), caused by the Catholic church, and to the support of criminality and child rapists getting away with it just because people ‘respect’ religion, and you are spitting in the faces of the victims, while the Pope and the other 500 vermin in the Vatican laugh at you for enabling them. If there were a just, loving god with a Heaven I doubt many Catholics would make it there.

This is not bigotry, but prinicipal, and to call the Catholic Church the most evil thing in the world is not an opinion, but a fact. I hope your delusion does not last."

Obviously, I’m brand new to Catholicism, so I’m not 100% how everything works in catholic politics, and how the the church run. If anyone can help understand where this person went wrong, that would be great. I would love to know how to respond to absurd claims that this person makes.

God Bless

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Hello,

Recently, I was sent a PM (not this website but a different) in regards to the Vatican and Catholicism after the person went on about how I"m evil and that I’m evil for even considering joining the Catholic church (which is what I plan to do after I go through RCIA in the fall and be confirmed next Easter).

Here is the PM (I do not list the person’s name):

"I really feel you strawmanned me on this, and I feel I’ve accounted for why this is not bigotry, and for people to think of Catholocism as a victim is laughable. If Catholic people are ever victims - of something other than themsselves, eachother and their own religion - such a decedantly rich, obcenely powerful tyrant as the Pope could surely help if he gave two ****s about you? But no, he taxes poor Catholics via the collection plate to fill the Vatican bank even further. More than half the ‘charity’ money raised by Mother Teresa (the fraud) went straight to the Vatican bank; it’s a fact, you can check. Then there’s the twelve million pounds owed to the British taxpayer.

What you are doing, other than falling for a transparent con, is putting your name to suffering and death amounting to a 9/11 on an hourly basis (among the biggest causes of preventable death in the world), caused by the Catholic church, and to the support of criminality and child rapists getting away with it just because people ‘respect’ religion, and you are spitting in the faces of the victims, while the Pope and the other 500 vermin in the Vatican laugh at you for enabling them. If there were a just, loving god with a Heaven I doubt many Catholics would make it there.

This is not bigotry, but prinicipal, and to call the Catholic Church the most evil thing in the world is not an opinion, but a fact. I hope your delusion does not last."

Obviously, I’m brand new to Catholicism, so I’m not 100% how everything works in catholic politics, and how the the church run. If anyone can help understand where this person went wrong, that would be great. I would love to know how to respond to absurd claims that this person makes.

God Bless

This person went wrong from get go. I would not even begin to debunk them but turn it on them and request for them to provide source for all of their claims. If i would even do that more than likely I would not even bother to respond to this bunch of lies nor any other PM from this person as they would be blocked from contact by me.

 

[smad0142]

Well the whole Vatican Bank one may be true. I know most Religious Orders have money with the Vatican Bank, but that is to prevent losing money to scams and people like Bernie Maddoff. I would bank with the Vatican if I could, they are much more trustworthy.

 

[Iotaunum]

Obviously, I’m brand new to Catholicism, so I’m not 100% how everything works in catholic politics, and how the the church run. If anyone can help understand where this person went wrong, that would be great. I would love to know how to respond to absurd claims that this person makes.

God Bless

My advise, from years of debating with non-Catholics (including a lot of extreme anti-Catholics), is not to respond at all. A person of this mindset is obviously set in their ways and will not be convinced otherwise too easily. Pray for them, and if they are of good will ( which is doubtful given the message they sent you) then God will give them the grace to convert to the True faith. Do not engage in apologetical arguments with people such as this unless you have to. Without sufficient knowledge of the Catholic faith and apologetics in general, particularly Scriptural, you can find yourself worse of, or even believing lies about the truth of the faith and doubting your own faith. Since you are new to Catholicism I suggest you start reading apologetical works even if it is only to increase your own knowledge of the faith. If there is any questions you have I and many other people on this forum will be glad to help.

Regards

 

[Rawb]

And I thought I’d encountered vile people on internet forums!

I agree with oneGODoneCHURCH. Block the person - don’t even try to respond. You could come out with direct facts against any one of the hateful (and yes, bigoted) things s/he has said and it wouldn’t matter. They’ve made up their mind and it won’t change.

But pray for them. Whenever someone upsets us we should pray for them. Not passive agressive “God, please help this person to not be so hateful, may they come to see the light of how they were wrong” prayers but prayers asking for you to love them and that that person may receive all the blessings and Grace God may give them.

 

[Quarles47]

Even swearing up and down that that “PM” wasn’t bigotry, it was.

The sender of that “PM” needs help, and our prayers

 

[josephback]

Here is the PM (I do not list the person’s name):

"I really feel you strawmanned me on this, and I feel I’ve accounted for why this is not bigotry, and for people to think of Catholocism as a victim is laughable.

The person appears to feel misunderstood. Maybe they aren’t consciously trying to be a bigot. They probably really are concerned. That doesn’t mean it’s not a nasty note.

If Catholic people are ever victims - of something other than themsselves, eachother and their own religion - such a decedantly rich, obcenely powerful tyrant as the Pope could surely help if he gave two ****s about you? But no, he taxes poor Catholics via the collection plate to fill the Vatican bank even further. More than half the ‘charity’ money raised by Mother Teresa (the fraud) went straight to the Vatican bank; it’s a fact, you can check. Then there’s the twelve million pounds owed to the British taxpayer.

The Church takes in a lot of money, the Church pays out a lot of money. My local parish can’t raise enough to meet their budget. The Church is not “obscenely rich.”

What you are doing, other than falling for a transparent con, is putting your name to suffering and death amounting to a 9/11 on an hourly basis (among the biggest causes of preventable death in the world), caused by the Catholic church, and to the support of criminality and child rapists getting away with it just because people ‘respect’ religion, and you are spitting in the faces of the victims, while the Pope and the other 500 vermin in the Vatican laugh at you for enabling them. If there were a just, loving god with a Heaven I doubt many Catholics would make it there.

This is not bigotry, but prinicipal, and to call the Catholic Church the most evil thing in the world is not an opinion, but a fact. I hope your delusion does not last."

This person appears to have read some anti-Catholic literature. The only thing that could amount to 9/11 on an hourly basis is the claim of millions killed during the Inquisition. The Inquisition was a nasty thing, but far fewer people died in it than has been reported. The supposed numbers killed would have rivaled the population of Europe at the time. Responsible estimates and scholarship put the number much lower.
Another nasty thing would be the Church’s anti-Semitism, which arguably helped prepare for the Holocaust(!), but the late Pope John Paul 2 apologized for both of these in 2000, on something called “Atonement Day” or whatnot. The current Pope was the Cardinal that apologized for the Inquisition at that time.

Obviously, I’m brand new to Catholicism, so I’m not 100% how everything works in catholic politics, and how the the church run. If anyone can help understand where this person went wrong, that would be great. I would love to know how to respond to absurd claims that this person makes.
God Bless

I would acknowledge that the Catholic Church has a checkered history, but that the problems largely (as witht he priest abuse scandal) came from individuals. The Church until recently did have a nasty teaching about the Jews and “Deicide” though. On the flip side Martin Luther was a pretty big anti-Semite himself. The history around Henry VIII’s seizure of the monasteries and the start of Anglicanism would be truly eye-opening. We all have blots on our records. The Catholic Church itself has both wheat and tares, good and bad within its ranks. Overall as an institution the Catholic Church has done a tremendous amount of good, founding the European university system, etc. Ask this person to look into THAT.

 

[Lintaro]

To things like these, we as Catholics, must answer hate with LOVE. Jesus loved His enemies, even when they were torturing Him and crucifying Him. So, remember to answer the person’s PM as nice, as polite, and as **humble **as possible. And don’t forget to PRAY for this person, as The Holy Spirit will guide him so that he may find the truth by himself. It’s interesting to note that the many devout of Catholics actually start off as anti-Catholics

Now then…

Here is the PM (I do not list the person’s name): "I really feel you strawmanned me on this, and I feel I’ve accounted for why this is not bigotry, and for people to think of Catholocism as a victim is laughable. If Catholic people are ever victims - of something other than themsselves, eachother and their own religion

Catholics in the States are being bullied for their beliefs. Many Protestant denominations mock Catholicism and its followers.

• such a decedantly rich, obcenely powerful tyrant as the Pope could surely help if he gave two ****s about you? But no, he taxes poor Catholics via the collection plate to fill the Vatican bank even further.

Taxes poor Catholics? What does he mean by poor? Poor as in “Poor guy, he seems very sad”, poor as in ‘not economically able’, or poor as in ‘ignorant’?

To my knowledge, people that give offerings in mass usually give coins. Not hundred-dollar bills. And the money gathered from this usually goes to fund the Parish (Church building) to pay for cleaning, repairs, maintenance, etc. Also, I also heard that a small percentage of it is given to charity, but I’m not really sure about this.

More than half the ‘charity’ money raised by Mother Teresa (the fraud) went straight to the Vatican bank; it’s a fact, you can check. Then there’s the twelve million pounds owed to the British taxpayer.

Mother Teresa spent her life helping lepers: people who are sick and are socially rejected. They sleep on the streets and no one wants them. She founded an organization that dedicates themselves to take care of these people, just like Jesus did. The money goes to fund this organization for medical supplies, the construction of buildings etc.

What you are doing, other than falling for a transparent con, is putting your name to suffering and death amounting to a 9/11 on an hourly basis (among the biggest causes of preventable death in the world), caused by the Catholic church,

9/11 was caused by Islamist extremist terrorists from the Middle East that have a personal grudge towards the USA. Why would the Vatican have a grudge against the US?

and to the support of criminality and child rapists getting away with it just because people ‘respect’ religion, and you are spitting in the faces of the victims, while the Pope and the other 500 vermin in the Vatican laugh at you for enabling them.

The Vatican is doing all it can to discipline and replace Bishops and priests who were responsible for the abuses. The Pope is offering financial aid to the families of the abused.

If there were a just, loving god with a Heaven I doubt many Catholics would make it there.

He’s using the conditional form (IF), so he may be atheist or agnostic. Ignore and don’t answer this statement.

This is not bigotry, but prinicipal, and to call the Catholic Church the most evil thing in the world is not an opinion, but a fact. I hope your delusion does not last."

Ask the guy how can the Catholic Church be called evil if it promotes peace, helped millions of people in the world, and is against immoral issues such as euthanasia and abortion?

Remember to stay calm and keep praying, ask for The Holy Spirit’s guidance.

 

[Chris_Etzel]

You’ve just met your first militant anti-Catholic with a peripheral understanding of history and the Church, and no desire to see your point of view at all. He HATES Catholics.

If you prefer to continue the back-and-forth with him he needs to respect your view, understand it’s different than his, and charitably pick a point, state it, and provide sources. It’s the Christian thing to do in any evangelical endeavor.

Personally, unless he’s family or a close friend that you truly care about, I would simply not respond to him any more. You deserve respect in all correspondence, regardless of your views. Send him here if he thinks he can convince us we’re all going to be sent to Hell by his “just and loving God”. Pray for him that the Lord will forgive him of his bigotry, soften his heart and remove the things in his life that feed this hate.

May the Lord, our God, protect your heart and mind from attacks of hate, encourage and strengthen your desire for Truth, and nourish your soul during your walk with Him.

 

[GWright]

Hiya Thunderbolt,
Sorry you received such a nasty message. I have encountered such views as well.

Many people have a poor view of Catholicism. There are many reasons for this e.g. simple bigotry; but often the person genuinely believes the things they say to be true. This is because they have either been raised with / taught, bogus ‘facts’ about the Church, or because they believe everything they read in newspapers.

**
Claims that the Catholic Church hordes wealth for itself:**

It’s a common misconception that the Church is simply a money making machine. People refer to the Vatican bank, Church’s turnover etc & they point to the many beautiful and lavish Churches we possess etc.

However this is not the case. The Church does have a high turnover - and I would not blame an uninformed person for wondering “what do they do with all that cash?”. The Church spends the vast majority of this money on “doing good” in the world.

Brief examples:

The Catholic Church provides free healthcare for 25% of the worlds HIV-AIDs victims. Otherwise these people would be left to suffer with a lower quality - and duration - of life.

The Catholic Church is the largest educational body in the world. In the UK, the Church contributes 10% to the running costs of all Catholics schools, contributed to the building of the Schools and, in most cases, bought the land for the schools to be build on. Many people in the 3rd world would lose their right to education, if the Catholic Church suddenly did not exist.

The Catholic Church has a world wide network of global relief agencies. Eg CAFOD in England and SCIAF in Scotland. This network does immeasurable good to combat famine, disasters etc across the world.

These things cost money - a helluva lot of money - and this is where the Church invests the donations we make. Secular Governments would be shamed, if their charitable spending was compared to that of the Church.

Sometimes, mischevious journalists say things like “The Catholic Church is worth $X Billion”, or whatever. But this ‘worth’ is not in the form of a large bank balance. Rather, it is in the modern commercial value of the land our Churches are built on. It is in the bricks and mortar of our ancient and beautiful Churches. It is in precious artifacts and works of art that have been gathered by the Church over 2,000 years. If some of the greatest artists (eg Michelangelo) the world has ever known paint a Church for you, then over time these things will obviously accrue a price tag, given they are important, historical examples of human culture.

But none of this supposed wealth is accessible, for it is actually the sum total of selling our entire Catholic cultural and religious heritage. And that is obviously never going to happen, because their value to us is utterly priceless in mere financial terms. We would never sell our ancient Churches, our artifacts and heritage, or our Catholic identity. So they might as well be worthless.

Specific quotes:

it’s a fact, you can check.

If someone ever makes such accusations, the onus is on them - not the listener - to provide evidence.

Then there’s the twelve million pounds owed to the British taxpayer.

No money is owed. Catholics contributed the majority of the cost of the recent Papal visit, through donations and selling souveniers etc. The cost to the British taxpayer was in the region of £7 million. Before the visit, hysterial and deceitful critics said it would cost the taxpayer well over £100 million. Abject rubbish.

Im gonna continue in a 2nd post, due to the size limitaion lol!

 

[GWright]

Hi, welcome back to part 2, lol:

putting your name to suffering and death amounting to a 9/11 on an hourly basis (among the biggest causes of preventable death in the world), caused by the Catholic church

The writer does not actually go as far as to name or give any specific facts about this “death” we are causing. We would require embellishment of the accusations - so they were at least coherent - if we were to mount a worthwhile defence against them.

and to the support of criminality and child rapists

Again no details or facts are given regarding this “criminality”, other than a nasty slur.

The child abuse scandal is well known. That some bishops made poor decisions, motivated by the wrong things, is disgraceful. However, it is my belief that, following reforms of how such cases are dealt with, that the Church is now one of the safest organisations in the world for the protection of children.

The media caused quite a scandal, despite the fact that statistics show that the Church is not (or was not) any more “padeophilic” than general society, or indeed other religions. For example, see these links:

insurancejournal.com/news/national/2007/06/18/80877.htm
reformation.com/CSA/HowthescandalsaredifferentforProtestants.htm

The Church has many secular enemies, who made the most of genuine issues - often through exaggeration and duplicity - to attack and shame the Church.

Some have said Benedict himself orchestrated a cover up. It is rubbish. For starters, it was diocean Bishops who had authority on this at the time, not the Vatican. Also, most of the cases occured decades before Benedict was even based in the Vatican, and was still a Lecturer in Germany. It was he who reformed the process, in 2001, by saying every case now had to be referred to the CDF (given some individual Bishops own poor decisions). His critics claim this 2001 order means he must have known about cases which occured up to half a century earlier - its laughable. And it was he who binned Marcel Degollado, soon after becoming Pope. So, Benedict actually has a good record on dealing with abuse.

to call the Catholic Church the most evil thing in the world is not an opinion, but a fact

Again the reader does not substantiate this “fact” with any evidence or links etc. As such it is to be treated as their own opinion, and an obviously very extreme and idiotic one at that.

There are a lot of people out there, who have a really bad view of our faith. There are many reasons for it, eg certain protestants and gay people may feel they have an axe to grind with us. But whenever you hear something bad about the Church, do you own research - check things out, its easy to research and find our the true facts. Make people substantiate what they say - don’t just accept it. Remind people of the good the Church does across the world, for many people, not just Catholics. Remind them that love and charity is our true nature, not the things in the accusations and slurs of our enemies. As a human institution, people within the Church have the capacity to do wrong, but such people area tiny minority and could never be said to reflect the true nature or purpose of Catholicism.

Take care!

 

[losh14]

I would love to know how to respond to absurd claims that this person makes.

I either wouldn’t respond, or I’d send the name of a good counselor. I’ve encountered people like this as well. There are just people who find fault in the Church from a deep-seated emotional standpoint. Maybe they were abused by someone in the Church, maybe they were raised to have this hatred.

If you must respond, do it respectfully but honestly. No one has the right to hold you to task for problems caused by the Church - real or fictitious - and you can even just say that. “The Church you describe has no resemblance to the Church I’m joining. I can see you’re upset, and if your problem is with me, please do not PM me again. I don’t wish to be troubled by your unfortunate misunderstandings.”

I can tell you that this guy is not a Christian, at least not a believer:
If there were a just, loving god with a Heaven I doubt many Catholics would make it there.

I’ll go line by line to help you.

“I really feel you strawmanned me on this, and I feel I’ve accounted for why this is not bigotry, and for people to think of Catholocism as a victim is laughable.”

For it to not be bigotry, there must be a good reason. If I don’t sign off on a home loan for a black couple, it needs to be because their credit is bad, or the house is not a sound collateral for the risk they’re taking out, etc. That’s not offered here.

decedantly rich, obcenely powerful tyrant as the Pope could surely help if he gave two ****s about you?

This is a sentiment common to groups who oppose Church teaching on everything from birth control to gay marriage. The Pope is not a tyrant. Tell me one thing he ordered you personally to do. Tell me one restriction he’s placed on you that does not have a substantially good reason. Your experience as a Catholic with Catholic authority will be primarily your priest and sometimes your bishop. The Pope won’t be involved in your daily life beyond your praying for his guidance and well-being.

But no, he taxes poor Catholics via the collection plate to fill the Vatican bank even further. More than half the ‘charity’ money raised by Mother Teresa (the fraud) went straight to the Vatican bank; it’s a fact, you can check.

This bizarre tale seems to have originated with Kittey Kelley:
medkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/hepatitis-c/3259/Extract-from-Mother-Theresa-Living-Sinner-by-Kittey-Kelley

Why it’s on a thread on hepatitis, I have no flipping idea. But the link (if you care to read it) is obnoxious and bizarre, including conspiracy theories and a lot of garbage. It also says she died in 1978 (it was 1997) and JPII was murdered for opposing the plan (he died in 2005, after beatifying her in 2003).

Then there’s the twelve million pounds owed to the British taxpayer.

The cost, in terms of security, of the Pope’s last trip to the UK, where he met with victims of abuse and apologized. It’s not common for visiting heads of state (which the Pope technically is, since Vatican City is a soveriegn nation) to have to pay for their own security.

What you are doing, other than falling for a transparent con, is putting your name to suffering and death amounting to a 9/11 on an hourly basis (among the biggest causes of preventable death in the world), caused by the Catholic church

I have no idea. He offers no further support - and does he mean that 9/11 was the biggest cause of preventable death (heart attacks would be easier to prevent and among a larger group), or that somehow the Church kills 3,500 people each hour?

, and to the support of criminality and child rapists getting away with it just because people ‘respect’ religion

Where priests who are accused of pedophilia do not end up in prison, it’s most often because the state can’t get enough evidence to bring to trial. As terrible as child abuse is, when it is reported decades after the fact (as it often has been), prosecutors are reluctant to move forward. If you’ve any doubt about the Church’s compliance, look at the John Jay report (you can wiki it and find a link to the actual report).

, and you are spitting in the faces of the victims, while the Pope and the other 500 vermin in the Vatican laugh at you for enabling them.

Consider the scandals of teachers abusing children (we seem to see one once a month in St. Louis). If you send your child to a public school, or attend one yourself, are you spitting in the faces of those victims? Neither is your attendance at Mass, or working with a priest who had nothing to do with such crimes any sort of offense against a victim of sexual abuse. Critics of the Church, and the media, always assume that priests know more about each than they really do.

This is not bigotry, but prinicipal, and to call the Catholic Church the most evil thing in the world is not an opinion, but a fact. I hope your delusion does not last."

A rhetorical device called “proof by assertion”. His accusations are baseless. He claims the Church kills 3,500 people each hour (or does the equivalent by another means, somehow) but offers no grounds. He suggests the Church does nothing but hoard wealth, though the majority of donations to your parish stay within your parish or diocese. What little makes it to the Vatican (and mind you, the Vatican as a nation has a GDP smaller than that of Rhode Island) goes to care for the clergy and provide for charitable efforts. There’s nothing of substance here.

All we can say is that your correspondent has a major bone with the Church and is holding you to account for his poor conceptions. Not fair to you or to the Church. I don’t think it’s worth pursuing with this guy. Some people are just hate.

 

[losh14]

Well the whole Vatican Bank one may be true. I know most Religious Orders have money with the Vatican Bank, but that is to prevent losing money to scams and people like Bernie Maddoff. I would bank with the Vatican if I could, they are much more trustworthy.

Also bear in mind that large institutions have their own banks in order to save costs on financial processing. I hate to use the example, but it’s probably the most well-known, of Wal-Mart, which has it’s own bank for the express purpose of not having to pay a processing fee for vendor payments or paychecks. This is much more common in the so-called “German” style banking, where corporations and banks carry almost a partnership, as opposed to the English system where the financial sector is it’s own animal.

 

[5Loaves]

Hello,

Recently, I was sent a PM (not this website but a different)

If it’s a moderated site I would report the person to the moderator. One should never be harassed and bullied via Private Message.

Love your faith and continue to grow in it. Haters will continue to hate. On the other hand my experience with RCIA has shown me that many people come into the Church when they see something displayed in the lives of a faithful Catholic that they want in their own lives.

 

[losh14]

If it’s a moderated site I would report the person to the moderator. One should never be harassed and bullied via Private Message.

Agreed. Sometimes the best approach is to take a step back, ask what harm this person has really caused you, since that is their intent, and perhaps even chuckle at them. I had a good laugh at a message that purported proof that Catholicism was really satanic. She pointedly gave the KJV for 2 Pt 1:19:

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

And noted the “day star” was Jesus (of course). She then pointed the Latin Vulgate:

Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem: cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris:

Then “translated” it:

And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and Lucifer arise in your hearts

Some people … and by the way, if you hadn’t guessed, “lucifer” was once used to describe Jesus. It was a kingly title and it was fit to bestow upon a King. It wasn’t until the 17th century (Milton’s “Paradise Lost”) that it gained it’s current satanic meaning.

 

[laszlo]

Take of from the message the loud statements like pope don’t give …, it is not opinion buf fact without any proof or at least documented examples and nothing will remain.

 

[jesuspsr]

Well the way I see it is, Welcome to catholicism. This won’t be the last time you’ll get this behavior from people. Reading and seeing behavior like this straighten’s my faith all the more. Pray for them.
God bless

jesus g

 

[wild_thing]

Chalk it up to being persecuted as a Christian. If you wish, you can pm this person back with a very polite, humble, “I’m sorry you feel that way about the community I am joining, but I ask you to respect my decision” and leave off the debate. I don’t think it would be at all worthwhile for you to get into a discussion with this person, especially as you are new to the faith and this person obviously has well entrenched, bitter views on Catholicism. Pray for them and move on.