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Mrchatsworth
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I’ll trade you ANY day!
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CTBcin
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I’ve always been conflicted about patriotic songs during Mass. On one hand, for the 4th, I see nothing wrong with giving thanks for your nation. On the other hand, it smacks of civil religion to me, and I’m uncomfortable with that.
I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m okay with something patriotic “God Bless America”/ “America the Beautiful” etc. is okay for the recessional, but that’s about it.
Once, I was at a 4th of July Mass and the cantor said: “Our communion meditation will be America the Beautiful.” I was not okay with that.
On the other hand, Independence Day is an optional memorial, I believe, so maybe it is appropriate?
I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m okay with something patriotic “God Bless America”/ “America the Beautiful” etc. is okay for the recessional, but that’s about it.
Once, I was at a 4th of July Mass and the cantor said: “Our communion meditation will be America the Beautiful.” I was not okay with that.
On the other hand, Independence Day is an optional memorial, I believe, so maybe it is appropriate?
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Cor_ad_Cor
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On another thread, we’ve been discussing…it’s a votive Mass only (not even an optional memorial, no particular Mass for July 4th as an American holiday, just prayers that could be used to fit the occasion; no reference at all in LOTH), so it’s still borderline at best (and in my opinion, inappropriate).
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otjm
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So is America the Beautiful.
The entrance hymn is not part of Mass; Mass starts after the priest gets to the altar and begins Mass.
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paperwight
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No
In Anglican services - Scout/Guide Church Parade perhaps – but never at Mass.
i am in the UK, and have never heard the National Anthem at Mass,. I would be shocked if i did! In fact, I’d probably complain.
In Anglican services - Scout/Guide Church Parade perhaps – but never at Mass.
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JSRG
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No, I wouldn’t like it either. They didn’t do that at the mass I went to on July 4 but they did play “America the Beautiful” as the recessional hymn, which I still didn’t care for.
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FiveLinden
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So would it be ok to play other national anthems in a spirit of inclusivity? I like the Russian anthem which is now purely musical. And the Croatian one is pretty good, though I think they could, given their history, dispense with the references to sabres.
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TheLittleLady
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I don’t recall suggesting ATB for mass. I suggest God of Our Fathers, the US National Hymn as fitting.
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new-kirishitan
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Back in 2017, when I was a postgraduate student in London, a special Mass was said at Westminster Cathedral for Her Majesty’s sapphire jubilee. It was the most striking Mass I’ve ever been to outside of Christmas. At the end of the Mass, Cardinal Vincent Nichols gave a short speech and publicly instructed the organist to change the closing hymn to God Save the Queen to celebrate Her Majesty’s 65th anniversary. It was the BEST national anthem played on a church organ that I’ve ever heard.
LONG LIVE THE QUEEN!! :uk:
LONG LIVE THE QUEEN!! :uk:
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Cor_ad_Cor
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I think this might be arguable; the rubrics do call for a procession at the beginning of Mass. (There is no such reference for the end of Mass, however.)
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TomH1
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I believe that is entirely inappropriate to play a national anthem or other secular music at mass or otherwise during the Church’s liturgy. Fortunately, I live where this is unlikely to be an issue. I think it is possible as a Catholic to show your loyalty and patriotism towards to country by means other than during the liturgy.
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Reverent_Howler
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Seldom hear anything remotely patriotic at Mass on holidays anymore. Usually, The Battle Hymn of The Republic–inclusive language version–renders as “Mine Eyes Have Seen The Glory”. More often as not “Let There Be Peace On Earth” of which there have been several revisions since it first appeared a half-century ago.
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dochawk
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I’m not sure I’ve ever cringed harder at a song (in place of a hymn) than the “de-militarized” Battle Hymn of the Republic . . .
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phil19034
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This was 100% inappropriate.
It’s inappropriate from BOTH a liturgical standpoint & from a patriotic standpoint.
Unlike America the Beautiful, the Star Spangled Banner does not mention God at all. It’s about a battle during the War of 1812 and who the people knew the Americans had not lost because the flag was still waving.
American should be standing at attention when the National Anthem is being played, not processing or marching.
This is a lack of liturgical edict and a lack of flag edict.
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phil19034
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Yours is different. God Save the Queen (King) is totally appropriate. And in the Latin Mass, there are post Mass prayers for the Queen prayed after every Low Mass.
But aren’t you supposed to stand at attending during God Save the Queen? I can’t understand how a processional or recessional can be taking place during any National Anthem. Everyone should be standing at attention.
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phil19034
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As a processional or recessional, no.
When a national anthem (If any country) is playing, everyone should be standing at attention (often saluting or with a hand over the heart).
Priests should not be walking during the playing of any national anthem.
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FiveLinden
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Is this a universal thing? I think the hand-over-heart bit is purely American.
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phil19034
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I didn’t say it’s universal. But standing at attention is.phil19034:
Is this a universal thing? I think the hand-over-heart bit is purely American.
However, I have seen people in the Olympics from other nations place their hand on the heart during their national anthem.
If you visit this site, and scroll down to Civilian Salutes, you will see some mentions.
The hand over the heart salute basically replaced the Roman Salute which was given a bad name since the Nazi’s used a variant of the Roman Salute. So some countries, like the US, replaced the Roman Salute with the hand over the heart, while other counties replaced the Roman Salute with simply standing at attention.
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