National Catholic Church

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thistle said:
The Orthodox Church is in schism.
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Again, one can not be born into schism.

Some members who leave the Catholic Church for Orthodoxy are guilty of schism.

The best that can be said is that the Orthodox Church is materially in schism but it is not guilty of schism which the Church does not really speak about is a creation of theologians who seem to like to apply this label.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (a document that seems to be disliked in this sub-forum).
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

**

Paragraph 818 is drawn from paragraph 3 of Unitatis Redintegratio, the Vatican II Decree on Ecumenism. (I know, this council is also frowned upon on this sub-forum)

Answer this question. In the eyes of the Church schismatics are guilty of a serious mortal sin. So how do you explain the Church’s allowance for members of the Orthodox Church to receive communion in the Catholic Church?**
 
ByzCath said:
Again, one can not be born into schism.

Some members who leave the Catholic Church for Orthodoxy are guilty of schism.

The best that can be said is that the Orthodox Church is materially in schism but it is not guilty of schism which the Church does not really speak about is a creation of theologians who seem to like to apply this label.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (a document that seems to be disliked in this sub-forum).
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

**

Paragraph 818 is drawn from paragraph 3 of Unitatis Redintegratio**, the Vatican II Decree on Ecumenism. (I know, this council is also frowned upon on this sub-forum)

Answer this question. In the eyes of the Church schismatics are guilty of a serious mortal sin. So how do you explain the Church’s allowance for members of the Orthodox Church to receive communion in the Catholic Church?

In the same way that Protestantism contains objective heresies even if most Protestants are not personally guilty of the canonical crime of heresy, so too the Orthodox churches are objectively schismatic even though most Orthodox faithful are not personally guilty of the canonical crime of schism.
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MarkThompson said:
In the same way that Protestantism contains objective heresies even if most Protestants are not personally guilty of the canonical crime of heresy, so too the Orthodox churches are objectively schismatic even though most Orthodox faithful are not personally guilty of the canonical crime of schism.
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I do not think that the two are comparable.

One can not be in objective heresy without being in heresy.

To be in heresy one has to deny a truth which must be believed with faith. One can not disbelieve in such and not be in heresy.

Some theologians say that one can be quilty of material schism while not being schismatic. If this is true then every single person born outside of the Catholic faith is guilty of material schism.

I also see that you ignored the posters question about communion.
 
ByzCath said:
Again, one can not be born into schism.

Some members who leave the Catholic Church for Orthodoxy are guilty of schism.

The best that can be said is that the Orthodox Church is materially in schism but it is not guilty of schism which the Church does not really speak about is a creation of theologians who seem to like to apply this label.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (a document that seems to be disliked in this sub-forum).
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

**

Paragraph 818 is drawn from paragraph 3 of Unitatis Redintegratio**, the Vatican II Decree on Ecumenism. (I know, this council is also frowned upon on this sub-forum)

Answer this question. In the eyes of the Church schismatics are guilty of a serious mortal sin. So how do you explain the Church’s allowance for members of the Orthodox Church to receive communion in the Catholic Church?

Nicely written… But from experience, just because WE consider them brothers, a lot do not think the same of us. Also, they could careless what ROME says about them. They believe we are corrupt. For example: Sometimes with my Calvinist counterparts, I could tell them, show them why the Catholic Church has authority or where it gets her traditions. They will believe other Calvinist on what the Catholic Church believe over what the Catholic Church say she believes. Thats why we have all these schisms. I think a lot of them are educated on their faith. They know and deny the truth of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church needs to stop being so neave on what goes on in other Churches. The caticism is written by catholics for catholics. I think we need to becareful claim the other faiths are not guilty. I have seen some really sick things written about the Church. Sometimes you can present the the truth until your blue in the face. They don’t care.
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JillianRose said:
Nicely written… But from experience, just because WE consider them brothers, a lot do not think the same of us. Also, they could careless what ROME says about them. They believe we are corrupt. For example: Sometimes with my Calvinist counterparts, I could tell them, show them why the Catholic Church has authority or where it gets her traditions. They will believe other Calvinist on what the Catholic Church believe over what the Catholic Church say she believes. Thats why we have all these schisms. I think a lot of them are educated on their faith. They know and deny the truth of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church needs to stop being so neave on what goes on in other Churches. The caticism is written by catholics for catholics. I think we need to becareful claim the other faiths are not guilty. I have seen some really sick things written about the Church. Sometimes you can present the the truth until your blue in the face. They don’t care.
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I have learned this after a long struggle.

It matters not what others think or say about us, that is beyond our control, but we can and should control what we think and say about others.

I strive to be charitable to all, especially the most difficult. This is a struggle and one that I often do fail to achieve, but I keep and it and pray for it.
 
😃
ByzCath said:
I have learned this after a long struggle.

It matters not what others think or say about us, that is beyond our control, but we can and should control what we think and say about others.

I strive to be charitable to all, especially the most difficult. This is a struggle and one that I often do fail to achieve, but I keep and it and pray for it.
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Cool thought. YOU are right. I never thought of it that way!! 😛

This is what brought me home after 7 years at the Calvinist, Dutch Reformed Church.!!!

I am young and am proud that by the grace of God I was born Catholic and made all my sacrements. Even though I got a little side tracked. I feel less stressed believe it or not. I will keep what you said in mind. I am human. I just wish the Catholic Church would be more evangelical. So many false teachings about our faith. It make me MAD!! lol 😛

Also, thanks for your kindness to my post.
 
ByzCath said:
Again, one can not be born into schism.

Some members who leave the Catholic Church for Orthodoxy are guilty of schism.

The best that can be said is that the Orthodox Church is materially in schism but it is not guilty of schism which the Church does not really speak about is a creation of theologians who seem to like to apply this label.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (a document that seems to be disliked in this sub-forum).
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

**

Paragraph 818 is drawn from paragraph 3 of Unitatis Redintegratio**, the Vatican II Decree on Ecumenism. (I know, this council is also frowned upon on this sub-forum)

Answer this question. In the eyes of the Church schismatics are guilty of a serious mortal sin. So how do you explain the Church’s allowance for members of the Orthodox Church to receive communion in the Catholic Church?

Can’t you read? I said the Orthodox Church is in schism. I did not say its born and brought up members are in a state of mortal sin.
As for Catholics who turn away from the Church to the schismatic part of the Church (i.e. the Orthodox Church) they commit a mortal sin by their schismatic act.
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thistle said:
Can’t you read? I said the Orthodox Church is in schism. I did not say its born and brought up members are in a state of mortal sin.
As for Catholics who turn away from the Church to the schismatic part of the Church (i.e. the Orthodox Church) **they commit a mortal sin **by their schismatic act.
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But that’s being judgemental, isn’t it?
 
ByzCathCantor said:
That’s truly uncalled for … 😦
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Yes it is but it is what I have come to expect of those out there when you disagree with their particular opinion.

That is why I find the ignore feature here at CAF so useful.
 
Okay…I just wanted to know what it was. I will use google next time. I know you all are passionate about our faith. Please lets keep our focus on Christ and His church. God bless all of u. Lets not get our underoos in a bunch. Lets not stoop to levels of rudeness that is typical of social media. Peace pals.😛
 
ProVobis said:
But that’s being judgemental, isn’t it?
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What is judgemental about that? That is the teaching of the Church.
Anyone who commits a schismatic act not only commits a mortal sin but is automatically excommunicated.
 
thistle said:
What is judgemental about that? That is the teaching of the Church.
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The mutual excommunications between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches were lifted in 1965.

This represents current teaching of the Church:
CCC838 “The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.” Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.” With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."
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ByzCathCantor said:
The mutual excommunications between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches were lifted in 1965.

This represents current teaching of the Church:
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That teaching is not about Catholics who reject Rome and move to the Orthodox Church. Rejecting Rome to become Orthodox constitutes a schismatic act and is a mortal sin. All schismatic acts result in automatic excommunication.
 
thistle said:
That teaching is not about Catholics who reject Rome and move to the Orthodox Church. Rejecting Rome to become Orthodox constitutes a schismatic act and is a mortal sin. All schismatic acts result in automatic excommunication.
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but you expressly stated above …
thistle said:
Can’t you read? I said the Orthodox Church is in schism.
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… and in response to another post, referencing this post in its entirety, you replied:
thistle said:
What is judgemental about that? That is the teaching of the Church.
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So, is it the teaching of the Catholic Church at present that the Orthodox Church is in schism?
 
nationalcatholicchurch.org/NCC/Apostolic_Succession.html
National Catholic Church of North America bishops are consecrated with what is known as the Duarte-Costa lineage; a valid, easily-traceable line of succession named after Roman Catholic Archbishop Carlos Duarte-Costa of Botucatu, Brazil, from whom the line originated in 1949.
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They claim to have valid apostolic succession.
NON-JUDGMENTAL
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Our clergy members are free to marry, as was the case in the Church throughout the first millennium.
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Gee I wonder how far they’ll take this. “Here’s Father Adam and Steve…”

nationalcatholicchurch.org/NCC-2/Doctrine.html
Relations with other churches
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We welcome to the Lord’s Table all baptized Christians who approach it reverently, regardless of their current ecclesiastical affiliation.
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Open communion!

nationalcatholicchurch.org/NCC/Clergy.html

Only two clergy are listed, and they are both bishops.
 
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