Native Americans

[Hastrman]

Okay, let me say up front I am not Native; I’m White. But I live just south of the Navajo Nation, the biggest Indian rez in America–with more people than Iceland. Also there are the Hopi.

But what I was wondering was, why do whites think they can just make up any garbage they like about Native religions?

There was an episode, for instance, of the newer Outer Limits, with a pregnant Native woman on a spaceship. And she starts having visions and things, about the universe being alive. At one point, she sees her grandmother’s ghost, which offers her comforting advice.

There’s just a little problem: they said the woman was Navajo. Navajos are not allowed to even look at corpses, and ghosts (chiidii, the first syllable is nasalized, so it sounds like it ends in N) are to the Navajo what devils are to Christians. There’s a four day purification ritual for looking at or touching a corpse, or being in a house where someone dies (which would have to be abandoned, that’s why Navajos are taken outside if they’re deathly ill). The exception to the taboo is if one dies peacefully of old age, but in that case they never return to the earth. It would terrify her to discover her grandmother back here–like discovering someone you thought was holy was actually damned.

Another thing is, a lot of white people seem to have the attitude that ghosts and taboos and “medicine” aren’t real religion, and if I, who actually know something about Navajo religion, talk about it, they think I’m being racist. There’s a sort of assumption (you meet it also in discussions of Buddhism) that all practices are corrupt externals, and the real religion is a combination of ethics and meditation (although Buddhist meditation has more in common with a Navajo ceremonial than what Westerners mean by meditation). Now I think that assumption comes from the understanding of a very decadent Protestantism–ritual is a late accretion…gee, who does it sound like they’re talking about?–and I think it poisons Westerners’ ability to understand other religions too, like Taoism and Shinto. Shinto, after all, is mostly “medicine”.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Who knows why people do that. But they do the same with all indiginous peoples. TV and Movie land has thousands of mystics who happen to be Native American, Maori, Australian Aborigine, Inuit or Eskimo, or ‘African’ (because they’re usually too lazy to identify a particular area or such a huge continent). And a resurfacing trend I’ve noticed is Irish and Scottish people (and their American descendants) on TV supposedly being endowed with secret knowledge of Celtic witchcraft from the old country.

They don’t understand the culture so they take artistic lisence and make of it what they like.

 

[Claudius]

I have often seen it said that racism against southerners is the last acceptable prejudice. I have seen the same said about Catholicism but the fact remains, there is still a lot of racism and closed minded bigots in the United States. This of course is due to the United States being a mostly protestant country. This is why we need to pray for the people that commit these error, tell them that they are wrong and show them the correct path by example.

I am Houma myself and that leads a lot of people to ask me about our Native religion and Language. It is really tough to respond because the Houma, unlike the Navajo, did not retain our Native Muscogee language but adopted French which we still speak and adopted Catholicism which we still practice. When I tell that to someone, especially a protestant, they tell me that something like: Wasn’t it terrible how those filthy Catholic forced their religion and culture on you. I always respond with No it wasn’t. The Houma Tribe became French speaking and Catholic naturally over many years as individuals choose French culture. Nothing was forced on us and there were other tribes in the area that did not choose as we did and are still today not French speaking and never were nor have they ever been forced to be Catholic.

I am a Latin Catholic. I speak English, Cajun French and Latin. I don’t know how to speak Muskogee outside of the words that we continue to use in our French. I could not even tell you what kind of religion we had before Christianity arrived. What I hear is that when the message of Christ arrived, it was so compelling and seemed as the fulfillment of all of our original beliefs that it was really the only natural thing for my ancestors to do, become Catholic.

I am very interested in traditional Catholicism and Eastern Catholicism because I see there very pure expressions of the faith of my people. It was a good thing that we were given the freedom to become Catholic. It is a bad thing today that American Culture is trying to tell us that somehow we are not American enough because we are not white, or speak a different language then English or are a different religion from protestant. Protestants will actually tell us that it is ok for us to not be christians and go back to our native religion as long as we are no longer Catholic. English and Muskogee are ok but we are not allowed to teach French to our children. This is exactly the kind of evil imperialism that the protestants accuse the French of doing but never did.

I myself no longer live in the United States and that has caused some protestants to label me as a traitor, apostate, and again Not American. Of course as one of the few people who can read the Constitution and actually understands what it means I really don’t see how I am the one not being American but if I have to choose to be what I am, what I was at my birth, and the Identity of my people (Houma, Latin, Catholic, Francaphone) or being American (protestant, racist, anglophone) then I think I will choose to be what God made me and will happilly hand over my passport and renounce my citizenship if they pass a law requiring that. (and if Romney gets elected such a law just might be in the works)

 

[Booklover]

I have often seen it said that racism against southerners is the last acceptable prejudice. I have seen the same said about Catholicism but the fact remains, there is still a lot of racism and closed minded bigots in the United States. This of course is due to the United States being a mostly protestant country. This is why we need to pray for the people that commit these error, tell them that they are wrong and show them the correct path by example.

I am Houma myself and that leads a lot of people to ask me about our Native religion and Language. It is really tough to respond because the Houma, unlike the Navajo, did not retain our Native Muscogee language but adopted French which we still speak and adopted Catholicism which we still practice. When I tell that to someone, especially a protestant, they tell me that something like: Wasn’t it terrible how those filthy Catholic forced their religion and culture on you. I always respond with No it wasn’t. The Houma Tribe became French speaking and Catholic naturally over many years as individuals choose French culture. Nothing was forced on us and there were other tribes in the area that did not choose as we did and are still today not French speaking and never were nor have they ever been forced to be Catholic.

I am a Latin Catholic. I speak English, Cajun French and Latin. I don’t know how to speak Muskogee outside of the words that we continue to use in our French. I could not even tell you what kind of religion we had before Christianity arrived. What I hear is that when the message of Christ arrived, it was so compelling and seemed as the fulfillment of all of our original beliefs that it was really the only natural thing for my ancestors to do, become Catholic.

I am very interested in traditional Catholicism and Eastern Catholicism because I see there very pure expressions of the faith of my people. It was a good thing that we were given the freedom to become Catholic. It is a bad thing today that American Culture is trying to tell us that somehow we are not American enough because we are not white, or speak a different language then English or are a different religion from protestant. Protestants will actually tell us that it is ok for us to not be christians and go back to our native religion as long as we are no longer Catholic. English and Muskogee are ok but we are not allowed to teach French to our children. This is exactly the kind of evil imperialism that the protestants accuse the French of doing but never did.

I myself no longer live in the United States and that has caused some protestants to label me as a traitor, apostate, and again Not American. Of course as one of the few people who can read the Constitution and actually understands what it means I really don’t see how I am the one not being American but if I have to choose to be what I am, what I was at my birth, and the Identity of my people (Houma, Latin, Catholic, Francaphone) or being American (protestant, racist, anglophone) then I think I will choose to be what God made me and will happilly hand over my passport and renounce my citizenship if they pass a law requiring that. (and if Romney gets elected such a law just might be in the works)

Hi, Claudius, welcome to the forums! I enjoyed reading your post very much. It was very interesting and informative. Thanks for your defense of Catholicism!

I’m not familiar with the Houma tribe. What part of the country do they come from?

And you’re right, there’s a lot of bigotry about our Church, and yes, we do need to pray for those who persecute it. Our Lord was persecuted his entire life, so it’s not surprising that the Church he founded would be as well.

Vickie

 

[Claudius]

We currently live in south Louisiana (where Katrina kicked us around for a bit) but were originally from just north of the Baton Rouge area. The tribe moved south to avoid war with other tribes and anglo invaders. We originally adopted French as we came into contact with the Creole French around New Orleans but after the arival of the Acadians from Canada the dialect changed to that of Cajun French. The Houma tribe is significant in its history as a tribe that adopted Christianity by itself and after adopting it has never engaged in war with any of the surrounding peoples, not with anglos because we move away and not with the French because they were peacefull twards us.

Terrebonne Parish is where most of us live; The town of Dulac in particular. I as I mentioned, no longer live in the United States having moved to Japan following Katrina.

 

[Booklover]

We currently live in south Louisiana (where Katrina kicked us around for a bit) but were originally from just north of the Baton Rouge area. The tribe moved south to avoid war with other tribes and anglo invaders. We originally adopted French as we came into contact with the Creole French around New Orleans but after the arival of the Acadians from Canada the dialect changed to that of Cajun French. The Houma tribe is significant in its history as a tribe that adopted Christianity by itself and after adopting it has never engaged in war with any of the surrounding peoples, not with anglos because we move away and not with the French because they were peacefull twards us.

Terrebonne Parish is where most of us live; The town of Dulac in particular. I as I mentioned, no longer live in the United States having moved to Japan following Katrina.

Thanks for your reply! I’m originally from Cuba myself and left to get away from communism. I’m sorry that you had to move so far. Do you think you’ll ever come back?

I’m having my own little war with a Choctaw Muslim poster right now! We’re having a lot of fun! I wish he’d read your posts.

Glad you’re on the forum! Is Claudius your real name? My middle one is Claudia.

Vickie

 

[deb1]

I think that a lot of people in the media admire what they think is Native American culture. The irony is that often they are just perpetuating stereotypes.

 

[Hastrman]

The Houma Tribe became French speaking and Catholic naturally over many years as individuals choose French culture. Nothing was forced on us and there were other tribes in the area that did not choose as we did and are still today not French speaking and never were nor have they ever been forced to be Catholic.

This reminds me of something in Chesterton, about the difference between French and English colonies in Africa. Everyone in Egypt, he said, regarded tea-shops as an English thing, because the English ran their colonies as second-class outposts of the homeland. The Moroccans regarded cafes, on the other hand, simply as a human thing, because the French tried to run their colonies simply as well-run states. At least in North Africa–their record further south isn’t so great.

Incidentally, what Muscogean words would be involved in your French? I know a little about Cajun (I can sort of pronounce it, it being a bit easier than European French, and I know some of the vocab/grammar differences between the two), so this is very interesting to me.

 

[Claudius]

Thanks for the welcome everyone. Actually, Claude is my Saint name and my wife had a baby yesterday morning and we are going to name him Claude. A priest by that name instructed me in Catholicism so I wanted to honor him. That also made me gravitate to the writtings of St. Claude, which isn’t much but also those of Claudius. I know people who read Latin love to read Cicero but Claudius actually had a better style in my opinion, it was far more human and much less blood thirsty. I perticularly like how Claudius was able to get informaiton out of people without the use of torture of death treats by getting people to open up in underestimation from his physicall appearance. (the word Claud means “lame” and Claudius was shockingly so) He also invented a lot of stuff that seemed to be really usefull to the Romans and invented the interogation by omission. When looking for something that he knew was in one of a finite number of places, he would simply ask his enemies to name all of the “possible” places. The enemy would then list them all, as many as they could think of thinking that Claudius would go looking in everyone. Instead, Claudius would try to find the ONE place that was not listed and look there and would usually find what he was looking for. He had a lot going on for someone that most poeple took for an invalid. Kind of reminds me of Stephan Hawking.

I would eventualy like to go back to Louisiana but Japan is ok for now.

Most of the words from Muskogee that we still use are words for certain important plants and animals as well as food and some colors. I know that we still use the Muskogee word for RED which is Houma. The word OKLAHOUMA means RED PEOPLE. We say Sokcia Houma to say Red Crawfish which is our tribal symbol. However, if someone is bleeding we say SanRu for Red Blood. People who hang out around us long enough eventually pick up our little changes here and there and it isn’t long before the two kinds of French become mutually intelligable again.

 

[GKC]

This reminds me of something in Chesterton, about the difference between French and English colonies in Africa. Everyone in Egypt, he said, regarded tea-shops as an English thing, because the English ran their colonies as second-class outposts of the homeland. The Moroccans regarded cafes, on the other hand, simply as a human thing, because the French tried to run their colonies simply as well-run states. At least in North Africa–their record further south isn’t so great.

THE NEW JERUSALEM is getting around.

GKC

Incidentally, what Muscogean words would be involved in your French? I know a little about Cajun (I can sort of pronounce it, it being a bit easier than European French, and I know some of the vocab/grammar differences between the two), so this is very interesting to me.

 

[Booklover]

We currently live in south Louisiana (where Katrina kicked us around for a bit) but were originally from just north of the Baton Rouge area. The tribe moved south to avoid war with other tribes and anglo invaders. We originally adopted French as we came into contact with the Creole French around New Orleans but after the arival of the Acadians from Canada the dialect changed to that of Cajun French. **The Houma tribe is significant in its history as a tribe that adopted Christianity by itself and after adopting it has never engaged in war with any of the surrounding peoples, not with anglos because we move away and not with the French because they were peacefull twards us. **

Terrebonne Parish is where most of us live; The town of Dulac in particular. I as I mentioned, no longer live in the United States having moved to Japan following Katrina.

Katrina was certainly horrible! We had about three hurricanes one after the other in Florida shortly before it, I believe, but nothing anywhere near as devastating.

Vickie