Native Peace Pipe after Consecration

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Bernard_Sudbury

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At the Chrism mass in Sudbury, Ontario, a native women came onto the alter after the consecration with a peace pipe and passed it around. The Bishop and all priests on the alter smoked from the peace pipe, and then they proceeded to the “Peace of Christ” prior to communion.
Is this Liturgically correct?
 
Bernard_Sudbury said:
At the Chrism mass in Sudbury, Ontario, a native women came onto the alter after the consecration with a peace pipe and passed it around. The Bishop and all priests on the alter smoked from the peace pipe, and then they proceeded to the “Peace of Christ” prior to communion.
Is this Liturgically correct?
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I have no doubt this will engender vast amounts of consternation. But - the GIRM is pretty vague here:
As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner.
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So - it is not necessarily wrong, in an area with a population for whom the peace pipe is still recognized or valued, that this might be “in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples”

However, you don’t mention the Lord’s Prayer, which should have preceded the Sing of Peace and should not be omitted.
 
NHInsider said:
I have no doubt this will engender vast amounts of consternation. But - the GIRM is pretty vague here:

So - it is not necessarily wrong, in an area with a population for whom the peace pipe is still recognized or valued, that this might be “in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples”

However, you don’t mention the Lord’s Prayer, which should have preceded the Sing of Peace and should not be omitted.
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I would agree ONLY on the condition that it has indeed been “established by the conference of bisops” That part I highly doubt.

Perhaps the Holy See granted an indult for this to be done? I don’t know one way or the other, but I would say that the burden of proof lies with showing that it can be done.

Unless either of those have been met, then it was illicit.

The term “peace pipe” is realy a European way of describing the pipe. It is along the lines of the old hollywood movies showing “generic” Indians with stripes painted on their faces (looking more like a college fraternity) and whooping like a bunch of schoolboys. In other words, it’s more of an unfortunate stereotype than an accurate portrayal of the many cultures. Smoke and smoking were indeed an important part of all native American cultures, but the “peace pipe” is an oversimplified (and many would even say oversimplified to the point of insult) description of a ritual which had many layers of meaning, and many different uses.

I fear that someone has been watching too many reruns of “F-Troop”
 
FrDavid96 said:
The term “peace pipe” is realy a European way of describing the pipe. It is along the lines of the old hollywood movies showing “generic” Indians with stripes painted on their faces (looking more like a college fraternity) and whooping like a bunch of schoolboys. In other words, it’s more of an unfortunate stereotype than an accurate portrayal of the many cultures. Smoke and smoking were indeed an important part of all native American cultures, but the “peace pipe” is an oversimplified (and many would even say oversimplified to the point of insult) description of a ritual which had many layers of meaning, and many different uses.

I fear that someone has been watching too many reruns of “F-Troop”
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Reminds me of the Community Carol Service that saw our pastor do a smudging ceremony in spite of the fact that there was nobody in the congregation who belonged to a native community that does smudging.
 
Peacepipe…!

:eek:

Isn’t that what weed goes in?

In that case I think it’s quite against the rubrics, as they don’t go against civil laws. 😦
 
Matariel said:
Peacepipe…!

:eek:

Isn’t that what weed goes in?

In that case I think it’s quite against the rubrics, as they don’t go against civil laws. 😦
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no, thats a bong. im sure the bishop and the priests weren’t doing bong hits with cheech and chong at the altar.
 
FrDavid96 said:
I would agree ONLY on the condition that it has indeed been “established by the conference of bisops” That part I highly doubt.

Perhaps the Holy See granted an indult for this to be done? I don’t know one way or the other, but I would say that the burden of proof lies with showing that it can be done.

Unless either of those have been met, then it was illicit.
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Would it need to be the Holy See? It sounds from the GIRM as if this is an episcopal call. As the CCCB maintains an Aboriginal Council which is established to, among other things: “promote Aboriginal People’s culture and traditional celebrations within the context of the Catholic faith,” it seems at least plausible that this was done with appropriate oversight.
The term “peace pipe” is realy a European way of describing the pipe. It is along the lines of the old hollywood movies showing “generic” Indians with stripes painted on their faces (looking more like a college fraternity) and whooping like a bunch of schoolboys. In other words, it’s more of an unfortunate stereotype than an accurate portrayal of the many cultures. Smoke and smoking were indeed an important part of all native American cultures, but the “peace pipe” is an oversimplified (and many would even say oversimplified to the point of insult) description of a ritual which had many layers of meaning, and many different uses.
Click to expand...
Absolutely true! I also get a bit crazy when people act as if all the First Nations peoples had the same cultures - just as reasonable as it would be to assume that there was no difference between the English, the French and the Italians in Medieval times because they were all European.
 
Thank you for your comments, regarding the “in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples” we do have several native people in the area, and a parishes serving native people. The congregation would have less than 5% native (or even less than 1%). The Mass was not held in the native parish, but since it was a Chrism Mass, I guess the Bishop may have thought it appropriate to be inclusive.
 
Regarding the term Peace Pipe, that would have been my own, I appologize for any misapplicaiton of this term. The fact is simply that the native women came onto the alter with a pipe that the priests and bishop partook of. No explaination was given, to my knowledge. Interesting to know that this practice has variations between native communities. Thanks again.
 
I’m glad I have returned to an Eastern Rite Parish and don’t have to witness this type of nonsense anymore.
 
Recently, I was talking with a close friend at work. He is a Hindu from India. I asked him what his reaction would be if at the temple he attends, the guru (celebrant) read some Christian scriptures during a Hindu ceremony and then draped a crucifix around the statue of Krishna.

The look of his face was one of utter confusion and not a little horror. He said, “I suppose we would think he had lost his mind and some of us would try to move him away from the altar before he could further profane both faiths. If he was in his right mind, why would he try to mingle two totally different religions?”

I wonder if we could get him to speak to the US conference of bishops? 😉

Paul
 
Bernard_Sudbury said:
At the Chrism mass in Sudbury, Ontario, a native women came onto the alter after the consecration with a peace pipe and passed it around. The Bishop and all priests on the alter smoked from the peace pipe, and then they proceeded to the “Peace of Christ” prior to communion.
Is this Liturgically correct?
Click to expand...

It sounds very odd to have a peace that was not extended to all the faithful present, if that did not happen; to be consistent, the pipe should, one would think, have been smoked by all present. If it was not, what happened STM like an abuse.​

 
Bernard_Sudbury said:
Thank you for your comments, regarding the “in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples” we do have several native people in the area, and a parishes serving native people. The congregation would have less than 5% native (or even less than 1%). The Mass was not held in the native parish, but since it was a Chrism Mass, I guess the Bishop may have thought it appropriate to be inclusive.
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In fact the Chrism Mass is for the whole diocese, I believe.
 
Bernard_Sudbury said:
Regarding the term Peace Pipe, that would have been my own, I appologize for any misapplicaiton of this term. The fact is simply that the native women came onto the alter with a pipe that the priests and bishop partook of. No explaination was given, to my knowledge. Interesting to know that this practice has variations between native communities. Thanks again.
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Bernard,
It’s not your choice of words which causes me concern, but what was happening. I’m not trying to say that you misunderstand the “peace pipe” or used the wrong words, but I am concerned that someone had a “bright idea” to introduce something into the Mass which is neither consistent with Catholic liturgy, nor consistent with the true (and very diverse) symbolism/usage of the so-called “peace pipe.” The pipe varries not only from one native culture to another, but also within the cultures themselves. It’s not just a “peace” pipe (though it might be in a certain context), but has other meaning beyond only that of a symbol of reconcilliation between arguing parties.

I’m concerned that someone watched too many old movies where the “Indians” make a treaty and say “uuggh we smokum peace pipe” and thought “gee, that’s just what we do in Mass when we make the sign of peace, wouldn’t that be cute.”

The whole idea of smoking and “visible breath” is present in one way or another in “every” Native American culture. It’s a fascinating subject and makes for some great reading.

Do an internet search for the following:
“with visible breath I am walking”
Black Elk (name of a real person)
White Buffalo Maiden/Woman (mythical person)
Here’s a good start
firstpeople.us/articles/Black-Elk-Speaks/Black-Elk-Speaks-The-Offering-of-the-Pipe.html

PS with regard to “with visible breath I am walking” the most famous version of this is Black Elk’s story, so searches will send you there first. But check-out the less popular links and you’ll see how varried and widespread that concept is. I can’t recall the source, but there’s one version of someone stranded on an iceberg (or was it on a boat afloat among the ice?)
 
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