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JustaServant
Guest
Found out what?
- Status
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rev_kevin
Guest
What I wanted to find out. Read my post, I said in it what I wanted to find out and I found out.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Something though, I happened to be reading a Missal from the Catholic Church in 1961, I have to see if I can get the photo up of the Nativity scene by tommorrow. I’m not home with the book as I speak.
But I have to tell you, everyone here is going to surprized at this photo. Its very close to how it would have actually been. Dark Haired, Olive Skin Mary, Christ in a Troth, the Cow and no Sheep or Wise men.
Anyway it made me think of this post and really just how much “we” as modern society have changed this in the past 50-years is apparent. Never mind in history. I’ll post it here tommorrow.
I’m sure so much of this is marketing by those who more than likely are not even Christian, and could care little except anything but the dollar. Thus we arrive at a distorted image of what sinners think Good looks like?
God Bless, GT
But I have to tell you, everyone here is going to surprized at this photo. Its very close to how it would have actually been. Dark Haired, Olive Skin Mary, Christ in a Troth, the Cow and no Sheep or Wise men.
Anyway it made me think of this post and really just how much “we” as modern society have changed this in the past 50-years is apparent. Never mind in history. I’ll post it here tommorrow.
I’m sure so much of this is marketing by those who more than likely are not even Christian, and could care little except anything but the dollar. Thus we arrive at a distorted image of what sinners think Good looks like?
God Bless, GT
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rev_kevin
Guest
Looking forward to seeing the picture.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Rev Kevin,
Be careful not to get scrupulous…or else Mr. Scrooge starts knocking at the door…
Be careful not to get scrupulous…or else Mr. Scrooge starts knocking at the door…
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rev_kevin
Guest
Thanks I know what you mean.
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BlueShadow123
Guest
Wouldnt it have been funny if Mary had twins?
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PbloPicasso
Guest
It’s funny you guys say this because I was never fooled by it once I became more bible oriented in high school. As I grew, learned more I came to the understanding that the wise men came much later even. The feeding trough is not news for most people. I even went to the point where after reverting to Catholicism myself we started the nativity scene with the wise me even further away and on the Epiphany brought the wise me close. Thought the babe still lay in the manger I portrayed as best an idea as possible.When I was an “independent Baptist minister”
Now, I might be all wet with all this…I mean none of us were there and the Gospels only give us info on a ‘need to know’ basis.
- The ‘Inn’ was a large cave with separate crevices that were the ‘rooms’.
- The animals would have been donkeys, no cudley sheep or cows.
- A ‘manger’ is actually a feeding trough for animals.
- The Wise Men came much later and probably numbered more than three. I think the legend of “three” came from Lew Wallace’s classic book Ben Hur.
But ah…the Navity under my tree ain’t goin’ anywhere soon.
Our traditions of Santa have their roots in a known Saint that lived in a warm climate, not some cold snow and ice place. There are many legends, but the one person portrayed during Christmas as “Good Ole St. Nick” is St. Nicholas. After he became a bishop and they met during one of the Council of Nicaea to discuss the trinity in full, he ended up punching the Arius, considered a heretic. Yeap, Santa cold cocked a heretic. LOL. Now that’s apologetics in the making… Arius was declared a heretic, but later reversed and after his death declared a heretic again.
The interesting part about this heresy in denying Christ as both God and Man, viz., divinity of Christ, is that 2/3rds of the bishops accepted it for some time. It merely is a good example where in the only Christian Church during the time the majority of the bishops were technically heretics by definition. This goes to show me that leaders make mistakes and by themselves are not infallible. So, in spite of all the past media responses to recent sinful behavior, I’m reassured that the Church will continue on with the deposit of faith in tact whether we like it or not. In time, all will be revealed to us. In time, we will come to understand why the nativity was portrayed in the current portrayal… but it may be deemed unimportant in the schema of all things.
But you make a good point that would be interesting to see portrayed more accurately, which I’ve basically seen before, just not in the nativity currently setting in my front lawn.
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KathleenGee
Guest
I went into the nursing home of St. Mary, our Blessed Mother, run by nuns.
Here the Sisters created a 3 dimensional catechetical narrative of the entire Infancia of Our Lord before the presence of Him in His tabernacle…a place of meditation and adoration.
The chapel was dark, but in front of the altar, there was a framed midnight blue cloth with metallic silver stars throughout it. There was a light in the upper right corner, and then bright blue lights strung over the dwelling of the Holy Family…there was the Nativity of Our Lord, His parents, and the animals and shepherds, and extended out where the Three Wise Men in journey coming towards them.
The scene is the completion of the --entire-- event of the Infancia of Our Lord. Here with the Angel Gabriel, his placement called me to recall his original coming to Mary to invite her to become the Mother of the Savior to Our Lord’s birth, to the final part of the 3 Wisemen acknowledging the Infant King, even if the Infant be a toddler.
The Nativity Scene should incorporate the entire narrative of the Infant Narrative of Our Lord’s life…so beautiful and encompassing.
Here the Sisters created a 3 dimensional catechetical narrative of the entire Infancia of Our Lord before the presence of Him in His tabernacle…a place of meditation and adoration.
The chapel was dark, but in front of the altar, there was a framed midnight blue cloth with metallic silver stars throughout it. There was a light in the upper right corner, and then bright blue lights strung over the dwelling of the Holy Family…there was the Nativity of Our Lord, His parents, and the animals and shepherds, and extended out where the Three Wise Men in journey coming towards them.
The scene is the completion of the --entire-- event of the Infancia of Our Lord. Here with the Angel Gabriel, his placement called me to recall his original coming to Mary to invite her to become the Mother of the Savior to Our Lord’s birth, to the final part of the 3 Wisemen acknowledging the Infant King, even if the Infant be a toddler.
The Nativity Scene should incorporate the entire narrative of the Infant Narrative of Our Lord’s life…so beautiful and encompassing.
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rev_kevin
Guest
Wow! this sounds nice. I wish I could see it.
thanks for sharing it with us.
Merry Christmas
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Yes, Rev…the chapel was in total darkness except the sanctuary light, and the lights over the dwelling were not the turquoise blue ones…but the bright lights enclosed in a dark blue color…so the midnight blue tone all went together.
Now outside they have the manger scene…and then across the courtyard are the 3 Wisemen still on their journey.
Now outside they have the manger scene…and then across the courtyard are the 3 Wisemen still on their journey.
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telmab7
Guest
Everyone is over looking the fact that the most learned men of the Magi came because
they were Zoroastrian Pagans and had recognized a major astronomical alteration (notice I said astronomy and not astrological) The piscean age had come and there were new star(s) that had formed centered around something major that had come into existence
They returned to convert masses to the new reality of what God had done
Judaism prophesied the Messiah of the human race would come and now between the two meeting at this nativity scene had acknowledging a miracle was occuring that they could not define
Both religions acknowledged more increasing evil and more closed doors to heaven than open ones
The Exodus story of the blood above the doors in the passover and the consumption of the Lamb as directed by the high priests would save them
The exodus was extended to the gentiles in the last supper and on the table was placed both the blood and the lamb …given to us by a consecrated Priesthood as a sacrifice that would go on “forever” ( 1 Mal)
“He” was born into a feeding trough because this baby was going to become food for us
And to eat the food placed in this feeding trough in the state of grace scripture requires is the reception in the Eucharist There were lamb and sheep there and he was one of them laying there with wolves in the distance The Pascal sacrifice the precursor of Easter !
THIS IS THE MESSAGE OF the nativity
The Body of God that became man is the baby and is the …shoot and stem of Jesse…the key of David …the Lord of Lords …the King Of Kings …the same substance as the Father …Abba …Creator
The baby created YOU
When I see historical systematic analytical word by word line by line scriptural study comparisons by Protestant and quasi - Christian non Orthodox entities my soul cries out
“You cannot see the woods for the trees”
The Book when used in that context can become an object of idolatry
Do not worship the creation of the Book over the creator my friends
For there is One Triune God There is One People There is One Church and there is an guarantor that it will be ensured - and protected to the 2nd coming - an earthly authority system from Moses and David to today
Christmas is a call to have more trust in what cannot completely see- touch and figure out to the infinite degrees
2 Peter 1:20 There is no personal interpretation of scripture
The dead fruit of the culture of death is the living proof of that failed experiment
Like Herod in the scripture (an unbeliever) you are wanting to know the exact time and place of the appearance of the star
All you need to know is that it is true - believe and come gather round the table of the Lamb.
Matt 2 :7-11
Then Herod, privately calling the wise men, learned diligently of them the time of the star which appeared to them; And sending them into Bethlehem, said: Go and diligently inquire after the child, and when you have found him, bring me word again, that I also may come to adore him Who having heard the king, went their way; and behold the star which they had seen in the east, went before them, until it came and stood over where the child was. And seeing the star they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And entering into the house, they found the child with Mary his mother, and falling down they adored him;
they were Zoroastrian Pagans and had recognized a major astronomical alteration (notice I said astronomy and not astrological) The piscean age had come and there were new star(s) that had formed centered around something major that had come into existence
They returned to convert masses to the new reality of what God had done
Judaism prophesied the Messiah of the human race would come and now between the two meeting at this nativity scene had acknowledging a miracle was occuring that they could not define
Both religions acknowledged more increasing evil and more closed doors to heaven than open ones
The Exodus story of the blood above the doors in the passover and the consumption of the Lamb as directed by the high priests would save them
The exodus was extended to the gentiles in the last supper and on the table was placed both the blood and the lamb …given to us by a consecrated Priesthood as a sacrifice that would go on “forever” ( 1 Mal)
“He” was born into a feeding trough because this baby was going to become food for us
And to eat the food placed in this feeding trough in the state of grace scripture requires is the reception in the Eucharist There were lamb and sheep there and he was one of them laying there with wolves in the distance The Pascal sacrifice the precursor of Easter !
THIS IS THE MESSAGE OF the nativity
The Body of God that became man is the baby and is the …shoot and stem of Jesse…the key of David …the Lord of Lords …the King Of Kings …the same substance as the Father …Abba …Creator
The baby created YOU
When I see historical systematic analytical word by word line by line scriptural study comparisons by Protestant and quasi - Christian non Orthodox entities my soul cries out
“You cannot see the woods for the trees”
The Book when used in that context can become an object of idolatry
Do not worship the creation of the Book over the creator my friends
For there is One Triune God There is One People There is One Church and there is an guarantor that it will be ensured - and protected to the 2nd coming - an earthly authority system from Moses and David to today
Christmas is a call to have more trust in what cannot completely see- touch and figure out to the infinite degrees
2 Peter 1:20 There is no personal interpretation of scripture
The dead fruit of the culture of death is the living proof of that failed experiment
Like Herod in the scripture (an unbeliever) you are wanting to know the exact time and place of the appearance of the star
All you need to know is that it is true - believe and come gather round the table of the Lamb.
Matt 2 :7-11
Then Herod, privately calling the wise men, learned diligently of them the time of the star which appeared to them; And sending them into Bethlehem, said: Go and diligently inquire after the child, and when you have found him, bring me word again, that I also may come to adore him Who having heard the king, went their way; and behold the star which they had seen in the east, went before them, until it came and stood over where the child was. And seeing the star they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And entering into the house, they found the child with Mary his mother, and falling down they adored him;
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Telmab…
Thank you for such a beautiful, beautiful post that reflects the many layers of Scripture and the salvation we are all called to…Jesus the Healer is working through you to enable us to see more profoundly this sacred time that touches all mankind!
Thank you for such a beautiful, beautiful post that reflects the many layers of Scripture and the salvation we are all called to…Jesus the Healer is working through you to enable us to see more profoundly this sacred time that touches all mankind!
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rben20
Guest
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Gardenman
Guest
I find this amazing that so much fuss is being made over including or not including magi figurines in a crib scene and when they did or didn’t historically show up. What difference does it make ? I doubt anyone’s faith has been destroyed due to innocently ignorant placement of the magi figurines.
In a similar vein, I vividly remember the Priest coming into our classroom and telling us that that the depictions of Christ on the cross with the nails through the palms of his hands was physically AND historically INNACURATE because the human hand would tear right through when the weight of the body was hanging on it…and that Christ was crucified through his wrists since the bones of the wrists would sustain the weight of the body.
This “revelation” in no way negated the fact that he was in fact crucified and died in any of our minds. It was just an interesting anatomical statement/observation and didn’t cause any of us to doubt the crucifiction or question what we were being taught.
In a similar vein, I vividly remember the Priest coming into our classroom and telling us that that the depictions of Christ on the cross with the nails through the palms of his hands was physically AND historically INNACURATE because the human hand would tear right through when the weight of the body was hanging on it…and that Christ was crucified through his wrists since the bones of the wrists would sustain the weight of the body.
This “revelation” in no way negated the fact that he was in fact crucified and died in any of our minds. It was just an interesting anatomical statement/observation and didn’t cause any of us to doubt the crucifiction or question what we were being taught.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Well, today I came back to the outdoor Nativity scene, today being December 27 and the nuns moved the 3 Wise Men over to the Manger scene with the Holy Family, animals and shepherds, and angels.
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patrick457
Guest
Well actually, aside from the wrists, the fleshier part of the palm closer to the wrist CAN support a human’s weight. Aside from that, the Romans were concerned to keep the victims up on the cross, and so they devised ways such as enlarging the heads of the nails with say, wooden plaques which would make it difficult to break free of the nails (we know this due to the heel bone of a man crucified near the time of Jesus!) or making the victim lean or sit on a sort of ‘seat’ - more likely a peg or block of wood - attached halfway the vertical post which helped the victim be more comfortable - in effect prolonging his life and his suffering. Actually, without this seat or sedile, a person nailed to the front of a cross would lurch forward because of gravity’s pull (those images of Jesus you see where He is able to keep an upright position while crucified to the front of a cross without any footrest or sedile is actually also physically impossible!
)
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telmab7
Guest
Thank you for our fears having been waylaid that the Magi might have been depicted as same day as Christmas as it was starting to concern me as well
The nuns knowing that this could or might confuse people or upset them went to the trouble of “properly” depicting in this manger scene for just such people
I could picture Mother Superior giving the directive “quickly ….move the Magi to the proper distance to the Star ……!”
With modern technology it may be possible to create a nativity scene that adjusts itself via conveyor belt to the proper distance each night
-~ laughs~But seriously Benedict XVI when a Cardinal had this to say
“With the Word of God having become flesh they were following the Star for the knowledge in the search of the existence of the True Word Of God”and where he quotes directly from CCC 528
They saw in the Star of David the one that was destined to be King Of All nations and unite them The Epiphany shows “the full number of nations” now takes it places in the family of patriarchs
(pagans included) and acquires “Israelitica dignitas” (are made worthy of the heritage of Israel –
So what that means for people of the “evangelists” like us We are to share with today’s modern day pagans the pierced, tatoo’d and cursing populace the message of the Magi that they can put down their search for the tattoo parlor that would mar the temple of the Holy Spirit and suspend the search for the ‘psychic reader store front’ for He has been found and “He” will tell you of your past, present, and future through a relationship with Him if you too go pilgrimage to find Him
“ As You Go”…….let your song be heard as ,Come ……let us adore Him ……Oh Come……
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Well,
I was making a pun…we are having stormy weather with possible snow on the way and we people do not know how to deal with snow, ice and hills with our 4 wheel tires and chains…
My chains broke trying to get out of my street.
The nuns got out there and put everybody and the camels under cover where the manger scene is.
What we need to focus on more is our celebration of the Mass, the intent and our use of the liturgical year.
So does Rev Kev…
I was making a pun…we are having stormy weather with possible snow on the way and we people do not know how to deal with snow, ice and hills with our 4 wheel tires and chains…
My chains broke trying to get out of my street.
The nuns got out there and put everybody and the camels under cover where the manger scene is.
What we need to focus on more is our celebration of the Mass, the intent and our use of the liturgical year.
So does Rev Kev…
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rev_kevin
Guest
Thanks KathleeneGee
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