Natural disasters and God

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I got in “trouble” in another thread for saying that I believe that sometimes nature just happens and God doesn’t always cause things like natural disasters (one person even questioned my faith in God). 😦 I believe that God certainly can cause natural disasters and diseases, but that most of the time these bad things are just the course of nature. Basically, I don’t believe God micromanages the universe (well, unless He feels like it on any given day. I attribute all good things to Him, but think that some things, like the earthquake in Haiti, is not the “work” of God (although I concede that God can cause natural disasters if he wants to). Is it official Catholic teaching that God is ALWAYS directing every bad event on Earth?

Also, doesn’t God sometimes allow Satan to make bad things happen?
 
Christ answered this question in Luke13:4,5, using the collapse of the tower in Siloam killing 18 people, as an example. Christ said, ‘Think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?’ (vs 4), 'I tell you, Nay…" (vs 5).

This suggests that the collapse of the Tower was not planned for any purpose, it simply happened. Of course God would have known it was going to happen because God knows everything but it wasn’t a disaster sent for any purpose.
 
I got in “trouble” in another thread for saying that I believe that sometimes nature just happens and God doesn’t always cause things like natural disasters (one person even questioned my faith in God). 😦 I believe that God certainly can cause natural disasters and diseases, but that most of the time these bad things are just the course of nature. Basically, I don’t believe God micromanages the universe (well, unless He feels like it on any given day. I attribute all good things to Him, but think that some things, like the earthquake in Haiti, is not the “work” of God (although I concede that God can cause natural disasters if he wants to). Is it official Catholic teaching that God is ALWAYS directing every bad event on Earth?

Also, doesn’t God sometimes allow Satan to make bad things happen?
Ultimately He’s responsible since He designed the whole thing. If a flood happens in Pakistan such as we’ve just seen, or there is a tsumani which kills 300,000 people in a few hours, then in the long run He is responsible. In that respect, it is an “Act of God”.

We may be responsible to some extent for “global warming” due to enormously wasteful burning of fossil fuel. But at the same time He has so directed history that we now live in a super industrial age (in the West anyway).

I also think He uses or predestines some natural disasters to serve a purpose. Was the storm which destroyed the Spanish Armada an “Act of God” with a purpose, or was it a merely lucky coincidence from the British point of view? Some of the areas hit by the tsumani were subject to endemic warfare and terrorism - Aceh, sri Lanka for example (yet others were not eg. Thailand). it was noticeable that the terror waned for a while, and in Aceh seemed to leave a salutary effect. Was God teaching all parties a lesson?

In Victoria in Australia, legislation was passed basically allowing open slather for abortion in October 2008 (I thnk) and at the end of 2008, only a few weeks later, they had the worst bushfires in their history, killing nearly 200 people? Co-incidence or a warning?

I think God can be pretty ruthless at times. For example at Akita, on the anniversary of the completion of the apparitions at Fatima, Our Lady once again spoke to Agnes with these prophetic words, “As I told you , if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible chastisement on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one has never seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead.”

Let’s assume that’s a real warning. If so, how is God going to carry out such a punishment? Will it be self inflicted by us through, for example, climate change, economic collapse and the inevitable wars which follow, nuclear war? Or will it be a very widespread natural disaster? And it’s Biblical - it is the Father who is going to send these things. it was the Father to whom Christ appealed to forgive his persecuters.

Ultimately, since God set up the system, He’s responsible. Unfortunately the poor usually suffer the most, since the rich find a way to insulate themselves to some extent. In a flood prone area, they’ll buy the high land. In earthquake areas, they’ll ensure their own structures are firmly anchored. If a mid Western town is subject to tornadoes, the absentee farm landlords will live miles away, while others actually do the work.

Most of the time the disasters are the result of natural forces, simply set up by Him, But sometimes I think He schedules such events as a warning or judgment. By the sound of it He’s got something up His sleeve even now. I remember my old Protesant pastor saying (and he was not given to Last Days stuff much), that he thought “I think He’s doing something to the sun.” The sun has gone very quiet lately, and some scientists are expecting an ultra violent sun storm sometime in 2012. Whether that will be part of it, or just a stronger than usual solar flare, I don’t know. But I do know the old pastor was usually right in what he said. If he “thought” something was going to happen, it usually did. Basically he wasn’t really “thinking” it. I believe God was actually telling him, in a subtle spiritual way. And he was holy enough that he usually got it right.
 
I got in “trouble” in another thread for saying that I believe that sometimes nature just happens and God doesn’t always cause things like natural disasters (one person even questioned my faith in God). 😦 I believe that God certainly can cause natural disasters and diseases, but that most of the time these bad things are just the course of nature. Basically, I don’t believe God micromanages the universe (well, unless He feels like it on any given day. I attribute all good things to Him, but think that some things, like the earthquake in Haiti, is not the “work” of God (although I concede that God can cause natural disasters if he wants to). Is it official Catholic teaching that God is ALWAYS directing every bad event on Earth?

Also, doesn’t God sometimes allow Satan to make bad things happen?
It’s in God’s Providence - His plan. Robert Sock (below) is right - read the Book of Job. God doesn’t cause bad things but permits them. It’s in God’s Permissive Will. We see in Job 1:6-12 says God allowed Satan to have his way with Job to test him.
 
Thanks for these thought-provoiking answers. Thanks to Roveau for the scripture. Always good to see the words of Jesus…

I’ve read the book of Job-- I guess I wonder if it’s in Catholic teaching that S.(I don’t even like typing the name) can sometimes cause natural disasters. I always think of S. as being out to destroy families and souls, but not as having the power to cause earthquakes and such.
 
I got in “trouble” in another thread for saying that I believe that sometimes nature just happens and God doesn’t always cause things like natural disasters (one person even questioned my faith in God). 😦 I believe that God certainly can cause natural disasters and diseases, but that most of the time these bad things are just the course of nature. Basically, I don’t believe God micromanages the universe (well, unless He feels like it on any given day. I attribute all good things to Him, but think that some things, like the earthquake in Haiti, is not the “work” of God (although I concede that God can cause natural disasters if he wants to). Is it official Catholic teaching that God is ALWAYS directing every bad event on Earth?

Also, doesn’t God sometimes allow Satan to make bad things happen?
Kitchendiva, clearly there is a distinction between God’s good, pleasing, and perfect Will versus His permissive will.

You are absolutely right - it is at times a matter of cause and effect, with the first cause being humanities ‘Original Sin’. I heard Mother Angelica say it more eloquently than I, but I once heard her say that the earth if revolting from the affects of sin. She is right, even at the death of Christ there was an earthquake. The planet has a lot to say about the way we are abusing it, and there is a natural (built in) price to pay for sins against the very thing that God gave us to protect. :eek:
 
Thanks for these thought-provoiking answers. Thanks to Roveau for the scripture. Always good to see the words of Jesus…

I’ve read the book of Job-- I guess I wonder if it’s in Catholic teaching that S.(I don’t even like typing the name) can sometimes cause natural disasters. I always think of S. as being out to destroy families and souls, but not as having the power to cause earthquakes and such.
I think Satan has more power than we like to admit. I think he can do things on a local natural scale at times. However his main grip, and the one he is mostly concerned about, is the hold he has in relation to sin. He wants souls, and natural disasters, war and so on are only useful to him in causing the death of souls he can claim. In war there may be a great deal of cruelty, but there is also the fact that people have it forced upon them that they are not immortal, and may seek God.

CCC 407 “The doctrine of original sin, closely connected to that of redemption by Christ, provides lucid discernment of man’s situation and activity in the world. By our first parents’ sin, the devil has acquired a certain domination over man, even though man remains free. Original sin entails “captivity under the power of him who thenceforth had the power of death, that is, the devil.” (Council of Trent 1546). Ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action, and morals.”
 
Most of the time the disasters are the result of natural forces, simply set up by Him, But sometimes I think He schedules such events as a warning or judgment. By the sound of it He’s got something up His sleeve even now. I remember my old Protesant pastor saying (and he was not given to Last Days stuff much), that he thought “I think He’s doing something to the sun.” The sun has gone very quiet lately, and some scientists are expecting an ultra violent sun storm sometime in 2012. Whether that will be part of it, or just a stronger than usual solar flare, I don’t know. But I do know the old pastor was usually right in what he said. If he “thought” something was going to happen, it usually did. Basically he wasn’t really “thinking” it. I believe God was actually telling him, in a subtle spiritual way. And he was holy enough that he usually got it right.
Interesting. . .🙂

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
 
Kitchendiva, clearly there is a distinction between God’s good, pleasing, and perfect Will versus His permissive will.

You are absolutely right - it is at times a matter of cause and effect, with the first cause being humanities ‘Original Sin’. I heard Mother Angelica say it more eloquently than I, but I once heard her say that the earth if revolting from the affects of sin. She is right, even at the death of Christ there was an earthquake. The planet has a lot to say about the way we are abusing it, and there is a natural (built in) price to pay for sins against the very thing that God gave us to protect. :eek:
This makes a lot of sense to me.

Thanks to everyone for answering my question-- I really learned something from your responses.
 
To me, Natural disasters are just that, Natural and are no different than “natural death”. Neither particulalry effects our soul or our destination ater their occurance.

As to natural disasters, most are less about what actually occurred than about what humanity takes away from them. Yes, great destruction and death can occur, but great good can also come from them. Each individual takes away from the trial something different, for the good or the ill of their soul.
Christ said somewhere, do not fear those who can kill the body but then can do no more. Rather, fear him who, after killing the body, can cast the soul into the fires of Gehenna…

God causes… God allows… God knows… etc. are all interesting theological and intellectual aspects, but ultimately, understanding the nuances of these things does not effect our faith walk.

Peace
James
 
I got in “trouble” in another thread for saying that I believe that sometimes nature just happens and God doesn’t always cause things like natural disasters (one person even questioned my faith in God).
He was right to question it. As our Lord said, not one sparrow falls to the ground, not one hair falls from anyone’s head, without God willing it to happen. Catholics (and the vast majority of other Christian churches and groups) plainly do NOT believe in the “watchmaker God” concept invented by the “Deists” of the late 18th century. which holds that God merely “set up” the universe like winding a clock, the set back and “let it run its course”. God’s creation transcends time, for time is part of His creation. God is always creating until the end of time.
( I believe that God certainly can cause natural disasters and diseases, but that most of the time these bad things are just the course of nature. Basically, I don’t believe God micromanages the universe (well, unless He feels like it on any given day.
Wrong. God is eternal and unchangeable. He never changes His mind or changes His “feelings” about anything.
I attribute all good things to Him, but think that some things, like the earthquake in Haiti, is not the “work” of God (although I concede that God can cause natural disasters if he wants to). Is it official Catholic teaching that God is ALWAYS directing every bad event on Earth?
Also, doesn’t God sometimes allow Satan to make bad things happen?
Earthquakes, cyclones, volcanic eruptions etc are not in themselves either bad or good. They are merely movements of the earth and its constituent parts. By “bad” you mean the suffering that these events may cause. Nearly all of this suffering can be seen to be the direct result of human sin. e.g. building, or allowing the building of, unsafe buildings in an earthquake zone, allowing a town to be built in a zone prone to flooding etc. In a few cases innocents suffer through no apparent fault or sin of themselves or anybody else. But even this suffering is caused by man’s sin, or, as you mentioned, the direct action of Satan and his cohorts. God has given both men and angels free will, and sometimes they make bad choices which cause suffering.
 
God is always creating until the end of time.
I don’t want to change the subject matter, but could you briefly explain how please? Hasn’t God finished creating since the Creation epoch?

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
 
This isn’t about natural disasters, it’s about 9/11 and difficult questions arising from it. However, I do think that what is said in this article would be applicable to the question of natural disasters as well.

ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe.asp

Oh, to get to the article, click on “General Questions (Not Covered Elsewhere)” and go to the bottom of the page. It is the second article from the bottom. 🙂
 
I don’t want to change the subject matter, but could you briefly explain how please? Hasn’t God finished creating since the Creation epoch?

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
God transcends time. There is no “yesterday” or “tomorrow” to God. Time is merely one aspect of the universe which God created. God is not part of that universe. His Creation and everything else He does are always “now” not “back then” or “sometime in the future”.

However we often talk about God and thiings beyond the universe in temporal terms to make them easer for us to understand, as our minds, being finite, can never completely comprehend the infinite.

To give one obvious example of God’s ongoing Creation activity, at the moment of conception of every human being, God creates a unique immortal rational soul and imbues it in the human embryo. The soul does not come from the mother and father, they use their material bodies to pro-create another material body but they cannot create a soul, only God can do that.
 
I got in “trouble” in another thread for saying that I believe that sometimes nature just happens and God doesn’t always cause things like natural disasters (one person even questioned my faith in God). 😦 I believe that God certainly can cause natural disasters and diseases, but that most of the time these bad things are just the course of nature. Basically, I don’t believe God micromanages the universe (well, unless He feels like it on any given day. I attribute all good things to Him, but think that some things, like the earthquake in Haiti, is not the “work” of God (although I concede that God can cause natural disasters if he wants to). Is it official Catholic teaching that God is ALWAYS directing every bad event on Earth?

Also, doesn’t God sometimes allow Satan to make bad things happen?
… my dear friend …

… as i see it briefly : had man not sinned there would be no natural disasters that effect man as god would miraculously intervene to help man in that event , this is part of the paradise we lost , but more specifically it is the equilibrium that causes these problems , when man sins he upsets the equilibrium and this gives way to an automatic reaction we call the punishment of god , i have said what the equilibrium is elsewhere , sin is the only and most destructive force in our world and effects all humanity and not the guilty party / ies only , all people are in this together , we are our brothers keeper , its ashame man gained the knowledge of good and evil in the fall — had this not happened there could be no sin , even if man made a mistake , that is a long story though , disruptions to the equilibrium attract the demons too — but god is always in total control , its automatic though as said — this mess will be like it never happened eventually though , as said we are in " now " and in " now " all is present at once and no time really exists at all , we start in the garden of eden and i think wind up back there for a stint after this and its like collapsing them together and this mess inbetween disappears as if it never happened , and on we go into eternity and our happiness increases in perpetuity — instead of thinkig we have a time span that is horizontal we should see ourselves in " now " with no time and a happiness line that just increases upwards with no horizontal time span , almost like we never move , but we do move , in " now " we can change as much as we like , as can god , but in reality there is never any change because - all is present at once — this is not just true for god , us too , – we just don’t understand it , but it is , natural disasters are natural but not meant to effect us — a bit like having omnipotent prayer — as with mary – no natural disasters would have ever effected us without original sin , there is a lot more to this - but that’s it in brief as i see it , hope it helps dear friend …

… god bless you 👍🙂 …

… john …
 
… my dear friend …

… as i see it briefly : had man not sinned there would be no natural disasters that effect man as god would miraculously intervene to help man in that event , this is part of the paradise we lost , but more specifically it is the equilibrium that causes these problems , when man sins he upsets the equilibrium and this gives way to an automatic reaction we call the punishment of god , i have said what the equilibrium is elsewhere , sin is the only and most destructive force in our world and effects all humanity and not the guilty party / ies only , all people are in this together , we are our brothers keeper , its ashame man gained the knowledge of good and evil in the fall — had this not happened there could be no sin , even if man made a mistake , that is a long story though , disruptions to the equilibrium attract the demons too — but god is always in total control , its automatic though as said — this mess will be like it never happened eventually though , as said we are in " now " and in " now " all is present at once and no time really exists at all , we start in the garden of eden and i think wind up back there for a stint after this and its like collapsing them together and this mess inbetween disappears as if it never happened , and on we go into eternity and our happiness increases in perpetuity — instead of thinkig we have a time span that is horizontal we should see ourselves in " now " with no time and a happiness line that just increases upwards with no horizontal time span , almost like we never move , but we do move , in " now " we can change as much as we like , as can god , but in reality there is never any change because - all is present at once — this is not just true for god , us too , – we just don’t understand it , but it is , natural disasters are natural but not meant to effect us — a bit like having omnipotent prayer — as with mary – no natural disasters would have ever effected us without original sin , there is a lot more to this - but that’s it in brief as i see it , hope it helps dear friend …

… god bless you 👍🙂 …

… john …
I appreciate the information, and especially the kind way you delivered the information. God bless you, too!
 
Christ answered this question in Luke13:4,5, using the collapse of the tower in Siloam killing 18 people, as an example. Christ said, ‘Think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?’ (vs 4), 'I tell you, Nay…" (vs 5).

This suggests that the collapse of the Tower was not planned for any purpose, it simply happened. Of course God would have known it was going to happen because God knows everything but it wasn’t a disaster sent for any purpose.
One of my favorite verses because I think Jesus was basically saying, “Stuff happens. To the good and the bad alike.”

So live your life well and be prepared because you never know when or how the end will come.
 
I appreciate the information, and especially the kind way you delivered the information. God bless you, too!
… your welcome dear friend , glad you liked it …

… blessings and peace to you 👍🙂 …

… john …
 
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