Natural Family Planning Classes- too expensive!

[1ke]

Depending on how you feel about traditional parishs, look for one that is run by the FSSP (Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter) ICTK (Institute of Christ the King) or Saint John Cantius society. If you have been properly formed they will happily marry you and will most definity NOT require you to have NFP classes.

FSSP and ICTK are both independent orders. This just means they don’t report to the local Bishop and hence are not bound these silly NFP rules some diocese are enacting. They report to the superior of their order.

Two things:

(1) According to Canon 1063 and 1064 the Bishops are **obliged **to establish marital preparation process that those seeking marriage go through **prior **to being married, and these canons give a lot of latitude as to what that might be.

(2) Canon 1108 and 1115 **require **the persons being married to be married in the parish in which one of them resides or to have **permission **from the Bishop or the parish priest to marry elsewhere. So, they cannot simply go to an “independent” order to be married.

 

[Leonius]

What is silly about asking engaged couples to learn about a legitimate method of family planning when the vast majority of Catholics contracept?

If all they were doing was asking then there wouldn’t be a problem, likewise if they were providing the course for the couples free there wouldn’t be a problem.

But that’s not what they are doing, they are saying you must have a certificate certifying that you have passed a course in NFP in order to be able to receive the Sacrament of Matrimony.

What they have done is effectively said that you need be qualified with the certificates to prove it to be able to become married in the same was as you might need to be qualified to become a lawyer.

They have added an extra impediment to been married in this diocese on top of those that the Church teaches and in doing so they are in breach of canon law as this is not a lawful reason to deny a Catholic the sacrament.

The fact these mandatory courses also have to be paid for by the couple brings the spectre of simony into the equation as well, don’t pay for the course no sacrament.

It seems very much that NFP “ministries” are a huge money maker given that you can buy a book for $10 that tells you all you need to know and yet some places are charging over $100.

The USCCB’s own document on this acknowledges that these requirements are canonically questionable because couples have a “natural right to marry”.(usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/report_requiring_%20NFP_%2008.pdf)

 

[nodito]

It’s more than silly if they try to make these classes a requirement to receive the sacrament of matrimony. And unless you can find a free course, it violates canon law as well since the Church can’t charge for a sacrament.

I agree that if the Church is going to require classes that she ought to provide instruction for free. But if it is provided for free then I see no problem with making it a requirement, just like most parishes require couples to do Pre Cana or meet with a priest prior to the wedding. Priests have a responsibility to prepare engaged couples for marriage, and one of the best ways to do this, in my opinion, is to make sure they understand a legitimate means of family planning.

It’s also disheartening that the standards and expectations are being lowered for everyone because there exist some selfish Cafeteria Catholics who choose willfullness over obedience. Without knowing anything about us the USCCB is assuming that we’d rather live in sin than obey the Church.

It’s not lowering the standard. Lowering the standard would be if the Church assumed that no one would go to Pre Cana or learn anything from NFP classes and so stopped requiring anything at all. On the contrary, they’re raising the standards. They want couples who get married in the Church to really understand the purpose of sex and marriage and to be prepared to space children legitimately if the need arises.

On a personal note, I would have loved if our parish had required NFP classes before marriage. My husband and I had no intention of contracepting and I already had a pretty good understanding of NFP, so we found it hard to justify the cost. If it had been required we would have done it without blinking.

Also, keep in mind that most Catholics who use ABC don’t do so because they lack sufficient knowledge of NFP. They contracept because they want to, period.

I disagree. I think most people, Catholics included, have no idea how effective or practical NFP can be. Moreover, I don’t think most people realize how different NFP is from contraception. If a couple doesn’t appreciate this difference then why would they choose a more time-consuming and sacrificial method over one that involves taking a pill?

Requiring couples to go to a class where they learn about sexuality, NFP, and marital love accomplishes three things: first, it assists those couples who earnestly desire to live in accordance with Church teaching by giving them the knowledge and resources they need to live their vocation. Second, it makes it more difficult for couples who aren’t serious about marriage to enter into a vocation for which they are not prepared. And third, it presents a unique opportunity for the Church to witness truth and love to couples who have strayed. I find it difficult to understand how any serious Catholic would not want this to be a part of normal marriage prep.

 

[ac_claire]

I think it helps if we know the ages of the engaged couple. If we are speaking of a couple in their 50’s, well, yes it would seem a bit silly to require NFP.

But if we are talking about a couple in their 20’s, well, it’ a different story. I have 2 married daughters in their 20’s and I am so glad they were able to learn NFP. When I was first married, we had no idea what it was. What I like about NFP is that it honors the cycles of a woman, and the husband learns how wonderfully and intricately made his wife really is. The husband and wife learn to respect and love each other on a whole new level. Why wouldn’t anyone want that?

I believe NFP is important enough that if I didn’t have the money, I would take on some babysitting to get the $159 needed. Or if your church will cover the cost for you, that’s good, too.

In any event, congrats on your engagement OP.

Thank you!

As far as age, I’m 31 and my fiance is 27. For what it’s worth lol. My issue with this whole thing isn’t really the inherent worthiness (or lack therof) of NFP. It’s more a financial issue…we can’t afford $318 (the $159 is per person) for a certificate proving that we understand what NFP is. We already do understand it.

 

[maryjk]

Now as far as NFP, we have no objection to it…we just don’t need the classes. We already know (I’ve known for years) what it is, how it works and how we will utilize it if necessary. But we must do the classes to get the certificate because of my parish’s requirement.

We’re not planning on using NFP, but we do know it’s there if/when we ever need it.

Yeah, thanks to the two of you who’ve recommended the Billings Method. If I can find an affordable instructor or online course then I’ll ask our priest if this will fulfill the requirement.

You’re right, it’s not a requirement for the Church, but the USCCB has said that individual parishes can require it now. Even the USCCB ackowledges that this may be against canon law, but that doesn’t seem to bother them lol. So, if we are unable to find a class we can afford we’re definitely going to talk with the priest about it. The Church can never charge for a sacrament, yet this is basically what this NFP requirement amount to.

But if we are talking about a couple in their 20’s, well, it’ a different story. I have 2 married daughters in their 20’s and I am so glad they were able to learn NFP. When I was first married, we had no idea what it was. What I like about NFP is that it honors the cycles of a woman, and the husband learns how wonderfully and intricately made his wife really is. The husband and wife learn to respect and love each other on a whole new level. **Why wouldn’t anyone want that? **

I believe NFP is important enough that if I didn’t have the money, I would take on some babysitting to get the $159 needed. Or if your church will cover the cost for you, that’s good, too.

In any event, congrats on your engagement OP.

newf: Because they already know how NFP works. In addition, they don’t plan to use it. I am guessing that at this time, they have no reason to avoid and have no knowledge that they would need to chart to conceive. They are just letting nature take its course.

ac claire: I would fight this. When the priest or whomever tells you that you need the course, just let them know that you plan to trust in God at this time. And if there comes a time that you need to avoid, you can use the knowledge that you already have.

 

[Leonius]

I agree that if the Church is going to require classes that she ought to provide instruction for free. But if it is provided for free then I see no problem with making it a requirement, just like most parishes require couples to do Pre Cana or meet with a priest prior to the wedding.

The Church does not require it. Only certain Diocese in the US require it and they do not have the right to do that, they are overstepping their authority, the Bishop has the duty to provide marriage preparation, it is his duty not the duty of the couple, what the couple have is a right to be married if there is no lawful impediment, and lack of NFP certification is not a lawful impediment according to Church law.

Also the diocese is insisting both are certified but one of us does not live in that diocese and NFP certificates are not a thing that even exists where I live.

My parents have been happily married Catholics for decades, they have told me about NFP I don’t need to sit a course on it, likewise if I needed marriage advice I would ask them. I don’t need to be buddied up with another couple in the diocese of Austin to learn how to have a successful marriage, I have my parents for that.

 

[1ke]

Ok…I have absolutely no idea what “makes you sick” but I’m sorry you feel that way. Anyhow thanks for the suggestion of Creighton, I put it on the list and will look into it as a possibility.

As I said… bad day.

Now as far as NFP, we have no objection to it…we just don’t need the classes. We already know (I’ve known for years) what it is, how it works and how we will utilize it if necessary. But we must do the classes to get the certificate because of my parish’s requirement.

Let me give you someething else to think about. Many times couples come on here after they are pregnant or have just had a baby and it is only then that they decide they need to use NFP to space before the next child. They are usually quite dismayed because during pregnancy and just after a baby you cannot adequately learn the instructions and become confident in NFP.

Soooo, although you say you “know about it” if you haven’t taken a class then you do not have the type of experience you need to actually employ it should the day come that you do need it. And, as many who come here in the situation of post-partum cycle craziness can attest-- you don’t want to try to *learn *it while already needing to avoid for a serious reason.

So, I think your diocese is quite wise in having all couples go through NFP prior to marriage.

 

[leonie]

Call your instructor and see if you can get a discount if you buy your own text–you can find it pretty cheap on various online stores. Our library carries it.

 

[moon1234]

Two things:

(1) According to Canon 1063 and 1064 the Bishops are **obliged **to establish marital preparation process that those seeking marriage go through **prior **to being married, and these canons give a lot of latitude as to what that might be.

(2) Canon 1108 and 1115 **require **the persons being married to be married in the parish in which one of them resides or to have **permission **from the Bishop or the parish priest to marry elsewhere. So, they cannot simply go to an “independent” order to be married.

In all reality this is NOT the case. An institue of Christ the King church is called an Oratory. The local ordinary grants the institute the right to EXIST in his parsih. However, the priests of the institute (and FSSP) are not bound by the optional laws of the local Ordinary. The Bishop can NOT come in and tell him to do something different from what the priests Superior would advise him to do.

An institute priest is rightly called a Soverign priest (They are all Canon’s now, which is an elevation above priest granted by the pope, but that is outside this point) because he is not a diocesan priest. Meaning he is not under the jurisdiction of the local Ordinary.

To put it another way the local Bishop can NOT reassign the ICTK priest to a different parish, enforce local custom, etc. That is the idea behind an order with a pontifical mandate. The local ordinary has to grant the Institute Priest the right come to his diocese, but once there he is an independent priest.

The whole idea of pushing NFP on newly married couples who DO NOT WANT IT becuase they ALREADY KNOW ABOUT IT is obtuse, insulting and wrong. It’s like saying “We are so happy you want to get married, here is how not to have children or have as few as possible.” The traditional priests will respect your wishes if you do NOT want to subject yourself to NFP classes.

You also do NOT need a dispensation to be married elsewhere. My wife and I were married OUTSIDE of our diocese by an ICTK priest in 1999 before the motu proprio. ICTK and FSSP were indult (valid latin mass authority) parishes. I checked with our local Bishop’s office and he said we did NOT need a dispensation to be married by them. He did say they will be more strict in examing our formation, which they were. We got the 100 question quiz on life issues to make sure we knew our faith.

Don’t let NFP be pushed on you. Charging for a sacrement either directly or indirectly is WRONG. It was one of the MAIN reasons the protestant reformation.

 

[1ke]

Meaning he is not under the jurisdiction of the local Ordinary.

However, that has nothing to do with the couple. They *are *under the jurisdiction of the Ordinary.

The whole idea of pushing NFP on newly married couples who DO NOT WANT IT becuase they ALREADY KNOW ABOUT IT is obtuse, insulting and wrong. It’s like saying “We are so happy you want to get married, here is how not to have children or have as few as possible.” The traditional priests will respect your wishes if you do NOT want to subject yourself to NFP classes.

In your opinion.

 

[catholic79]

To the OP - Have you asked your priest if there is scholarship money available to pay for this course, or if you buy the book and read it (you can get the book for around $40 or free at the library) would there be a couple in the parish that would discus it with you so you could get the certificate you need, and maybe learn a little more (I gather you have an understanding of nfp and how it will fit into your marriage already) about nfp, we can always learn more ??

 

[moon1234]

However, that has nothing to do with the couple. They *are *under the jurisdiction of the Ordinary.
In your opinion.

The point you miss though is that ANYONE can request sacrements from an order with a papal mandate. The papal mandate OVER RIDES the local ordinary. That is why many Bishops are uncomfortable with the traditional orders with papal mandates in their diocese. They lose a certain level of control over those practicing in their diocese. Now if these priests started doing something that violated Church law according to their mandate, then the local ordinary can step in to stop it. (Never heard of this happening)

My point is, if you are getting push back from your local parish priests and they REFUSE to let you get our of paying for this you can do one of three things:

1. Contact the Bishop’s office. Use the word simony in your letter. This will usually obtain the effect you want. If they still insist you can appeal to Rome. Takes a few months, but this will put a stop to the practice when they reply to your local ordinary.
2. Go to an traditional order where this will not be a requirement for marraige. (Probably the easiest option)
3. Find the money from somewhere, pay it, etc. This to me is capitulating and participating in the sin of simony. Just me though.

 

[LJN21]

Let me give you someething else to think about. Many times couples come on here after they are pregnant or have just had a baby and it is only then that they decide they need to use NFP to space before the next child. They are usually quite dismayed because during pregnancy and just after a baby you cannot adequately learn the instructions and become confident in NFP.

Soooo, although you say you “know about it” if you haven’t taken a class then you do not have the type of experience you need to actually employ it should the day come that you do need it. And, as many who come here in the situation of post-partum cycle craziness can attest-- you don’t want to try to *learn *it while already needing to avoid for a serious reason.

So, I think your diocese is quite wise in having all couples go through NFP prior to marriage.

I want to second this. I know plenty of people (my self included) that naturally while breastfeeding fertility comes back in less than 3 months. This makes for some less than healthy natural spacing. Its not a big deal for the first couple kids, but after that after that it can cause emotional stress for Mom and the baby’s - 3 kids under 3 all crying for something at once is … challenging. Its also hard on your body and health, again I’ve had 2 young friends that have had to have hysterectomies both under 30 one with 6 kids the other with 4.

 

[ack]

There are lots of problems in this statement:

The point you miss though is that ANYONE can request sacrements from an order with a papal mandate. The papal mandate OVER RIDES the local ordinary. That is why many Bishops are uncomfortable with the traditional orders with papal mandates in their diocese.

None of the three groups you mentioned are “orders with a papal mandate” (which would be called “religious institutes of pontifical right” under current terminology) The FSSP and ICTK are Socities of Apostolic Life, not Religious Institutes. St. John Cantius is of diocesan right, not pontifical right.

Ignoring the terminology issues, per Canons 738 and 678, the local ordinary still has jurisdiction in matters of public worship (including marriage). The autonomy of pontifical right organizations does NOT extend to matters involving the “laity” (in the colloquial sense) – it only applies to the internal affairs of the organization.

And finally, per Canon 1115, the couple in question cannot marry outside of their own parish anyway! (without permission of their pastor or bishop.)

You are on shaky ground here – please do not give advice like this without a full understanding of the Canonical issues involved. After all, giving bad legal advice is worse than giving none at all.

To the OP: sorry for hijacking your thread – for you, my advice would be to ignore the advice from moon1234.

 

[ack]

The USCCB’s own document on this acknowledges that these requirements are canonically questionable because couples have a “natural right to marry”.(usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/report_requiring_%20NFP_%2008.pdf)

I read the same document as you, but I didn’t come to that conclusion. On the contrary, the USCCB seems to believe that the complementary norms of Canon 1067 permit the NFP requirement.

I am definitely not a fan of them imposing this requirement, but it seems that Canon Law allows it (which was perhaps unintended).

 

[ChristinaM]

Thank you!

As far as age, I’m 31 and my fiance is 27. For what it’s worth lol. My issue with this whole thing isn’t really the inherent worthiness (or lack therof) of NFP. It’s more a financial issue…we can’t afford $318 (the $159 is per person) for a certificate proving that we understand what NFP is. We already do understand it.

That is a per person cost?!?! Yikes! I would balk at that too.

I wonder why it is so expensive. I can understand the instructor needing to be compensated for their time, but over $300 is a sizable chunk of change. Is there some kind of licensing or something through CCLI that has to be paid for?

 

[rayne89]

Your sure this is per person? We had to pay per couple.

 

[bcra]

i am a catholic several of my non catholic friends and relatives believe you have to be weathy to be catholic its true i believe the catholic church i have found thinks all catholics are loaded with money. i canot feed the poor of the world there are way too many mouths to feed. and by giving to catholic charities i can not support my parish as well we are in a recession,people are out of work so where does the church think we are going to get the money, dont they know its impossible to feed the poor without being in sin namely stealing.

 

[msugeotech]

Our class was only $35, for the both of us. I’m surprised it’s that much, but I can’t say if that’s unreasonable. I guess it just depends on where you are?

 

[catholic79]

To the OP - I just googled NFP in Austin and the CCL website for Austin ccl.austin.tx.us/ says they will wave or reduce the fee for hardship. Talk to someone it really sounds like they are willing to work with you.