So unless a married couple is constantly engaged in intercourse during the fertile period, they’re sinning?
Because I never said, and the Catholic Church does not teach, that “on principle, we are not to use man made methods of doing things in place of ‘natural’ methods.” This discussion is about the marital act, which (obviously, I think) is something special and sacred, while something like talking on the phone (to use an earlier example) is not.
They are deliberately avoiding sex when the woman is fertile.
…thereby cooperating with God’s design of human sexuality.
No, humans were made to be most likely to have sex when the woman is fertile, not when she is infertile.…thereby cooperating with God’s design of human sexuality.
Yes, desire is typically higher at that time for the woman. But nothing impedes sex the rest of the time.
Right. And doing so does nothing to impede the purpose of the marital act, because if they are not engaging in the marital act, then they cannot be impeding its purpose.
I absolutely agree. But in that case, it is wrong because the intention is morally wrong, not because the method used to achieve that intention is morally wrong.
I am not sure you really know much about how the Amish live. The Amish use many man made things and man made methods in their life. They allow for modern medicines and procedures, many make use of cell phones even. I’m a “taxi driver” for my Amish neighbors. There are so many misconceptions about their way of life and their religious beliefs
Yes, NFP can be used sinfully, but it isn’t always sinful. It also is harder to use NFP sinfully since in His beautiful plan, God has found ways to make it harder to use unless truly needed. ABC is always sinful regardless of why it is chosen.
But doesn’t that demonstrate the true anti humaness of contraception. To deliberately stop fertility or prevent all possibility of conception as a result of sex is to deny a fundamental human reason for existing.
So how many times must a couple have relations during the fertile time, to not be in sin?
That’s fine, and you may be technically correct. Please substitute “with a morally wrong intention” or “in a morally wrong manner” in place of “contraceptively”, and I will be happy to agree with that statement instead.
Well then fill contraceptive with whatever word you think is better. But I know that I have used NFP as my chosen form of birth control as a form of contraceptive. It was wrong of me, I have confessed, and I am not accusing anyone here of using NFP sinfully other than myself. I had no reason to use it besides societal pressure and my own selfishness. Thankfully it failed me miserably. Now, years later, I am facing an indefinite period if abstinence because I know that I can’t use NFP even though I know have a just reason. I have wondered if it’s not my penance for the years I spent misusing NFP.
But absolutely anything can be undertaken by a person experiencing moral deficiency (which is all of us). ie. getting married, going to Mass, praying. That has zero bearing on the nature of the thing itself… marriage, Mass, prayer. When it leads to people saying ‘well marriage can be done wrongly, so why should I get married’ or ‘if Mass can be attended with a wrong intention, why should I even go to Mass?’… it distorts the nature of marriage, of Mass and of NFP. It is a point that doesn’t belong in a conversation on contraception.
Please explain to me exactly what you think the Church’s teaching on this is. Your responses here make it pretty clear you have an inaccurate understanding of Church teaching. Perhaps if we clear up that misunderstanding you will be able to realize that the Church’s teaching is actually extremely logical. You may still disagree with it, because you disagree with one of the premises, but given the premises the Church holds as true Her teaching on contraception is eminently logical and really the only possible conclusion. So first things first, what exactly do you think the Church’s reasoning is for saying contraception is immoral?
This is a critical point to tease out for clarity in the name of correctly understanding Church position on contraception. When you say someone uses NFP contraceptively… do you mean they use their fertility awareness to be able to have sex in the infertile time and to use another means of barrier to have sex in the fertile times. (Condoms or mutual masterbation)?