Natural Family Planning for "Serious" Reasons

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I would not condemn a desire for “free time” of any individual, without having a clear idea of what their life looks like. It may be that they are holding on by a thread as it is and have virtually or literally no free time.

Also, it’s quite typical of new mothers to be glued to their babies in an unhealthy way, to the exclusion of appropriate self-care, to say nothing of appropriate husband-care. Somebody like that who needs to spend some time away from her baby in order to recover their sanity doesn’t necessarily understand that that’s what she needs, so it’s really important to avoid accidentally give her the message that “good mothers don’t need any down time.” Again, this is literally a life and death issue.

nydailynews.com/new-york/mother-dies-infant-injured-8-story-fall-article-1.1287649

I think daddies often don’t realize how CRAZY new mothers can be and how susceptible to crazy ideas.

A lot of times, women don’t really know that they had postpartum depression until they are safely recovered.

Another thing that daddies may not quite understand is that there is a culture of female machismo that exists in both the liberal urban version and in a conservative religious version. The liberal version is a subject for another day, but it’s very important to know about the conservative religious version. Here’s a rough sketch of what that looks like:

–good mothers always have vaginal births
–good mothers always breastfeed
–they always do things the hardest way possible
–they don’t need any time away from children
–they don’t have any social needs outside of their nuclear families
–they don’t have any needs, period
–they never complain and always have a smile on their face.

The really destructive thing about that ideology is that it’s so air-tight–once a woman buys into that, it becomes very difficult to get her out until she finally collapses. Meanwhile, until she does collapse, her husband will be living in a fool’s paradise…
 
Thank you for your posts, Xantippe and Ubi. You describe everything to a T. This is a big reason I hope to move to Denver when we finally escape Mordor on the Potomac. Living near relatives who aren’t workaholics would make a huge difference.
 
AClaire11 said:
Thank you for your posts, Xantippe and Ubi. You describe everything to a T. This is a big reason I hope to move to Denver when we finally escape Mordor on the Potomac. Living near relatives who aren’t workaholics would make a huge difference.
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Thank you!

I hope your escape is successful and comes real soon.

We live in TX and Texans LOVE Colorado.
 
Speaking of travel, a (non-Catholic) recently went on a cruise. The reason for the cruise was that her father is dying of cancer and he asked all of his children and their families to join him on this cruise.

I don’t think we should assume that travel is always selfish.
 
Thank you also for your post. I still, respectfully, disagree that examples can be made because a lot of what makes a reason “serious” or “just” lies in something behind the scenes that we can’t see and are only known to a particular couple and God.

The list you mentioned:
  1. Loss of free time - free time is not exactly a luxury. Everyone needs a bit of time away from others to recharge. I know I am a better parent to my three-year-old after he has been at preschool for the morning. The days when I am with him from morning until bedtime are the days when I am more likely to get frustrated with him and his normal “three-year-old ness”. If having another baby means absolutely no free time for the parents, the whole family will likely suffer in one way or another.
  2. Sense of loss of youth - if a couple feels this way, there’s a decent chance they are not mentally prepared to raise children. One or both of them could have unresolved issues from childhood that need to be worked out with a professional before they are in a good position to raise children.
  3. Cramped social life - like free time, a healthy amount of adult interaction is essential to a parent’s mental health and overall well-being. Having time to interact with just adults can refresh the mind and make a person a better parent.
  4. Changes in sex life - if pregnancy inhibits sex, and both spouses feel that would put a significant strain on their relationship, that can cause problems for the kids if the parents’ relationship is strained. Honestly, though, trying for a baby and pregnancy itself (provided it is an uncomplicated pregnancy) makes for a better sex life since it’s not restricted by NFP, so this one doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
  5. Inopportune timing - this is vague and could mean a lot of things, many of which could be perfectly legitimate.
  6. Distaste for bodily functions - if someone suffers from OCD, this struggle can be very real and is far from trivial.
  7. Materialism - inordinate attachment to material things isn’t good, but it’s hard to judge true materialism. For instance: my mother. Her primary way of showing love is through giving and generosity. Her parents were the same way, and that’s just her love language. There is a real difference between this and true materialism. My mother doesn’t give people things to be materialistic. She does it as a genuine expression of her love for them. I can see parents who feel this way having only so many kids so they can be as generous as possible with them. Whether or not that constitutes spoiling or encouraging materialism is another conversation. But the point is, just because someone seems attached to possessions doesn’t mean they are selfish or materialistic.
As Xantippe says, this is why there is no specific list. Almost any reason anyone comes up with can be “serious” in certain circumstances. The danger of listing examples like this is that it opens the door for judgement. “Bob and Carol would rather go out with their friends than have another baby. How selfish!” When really, that is the only time they have to recharge, as I mentioned earlier. And these things are known only to God. Not saying you’re going around judging people, I’m just saying that listing specific reasons opens the door to judgment.

So, to answer the OP’s question: There are no specific examples of reasons that are not serious for NFP. It is up to each couple to discern.
 
kptrs said:
Thank you also for your post. I still, respectfully, disagree that examples can be made because a lot of what makes a reason “serious” or “just” lies in something behind the scenes that we can’t see and are only known to a particular couple and God.

The list you mentioned:
  1. Loss of free time - free time is not exactly a luxury. Everyone needs a bit of time away from others to recharge. I know I am a better parent to my three-year-old after he has been at preschool for the morning. The days when I am with him from morning until bedtime are the days when I am more likely to get frustrated with him and his normal “three-year-old ness”. If having another baby means absolutely no free time for the parents, the whole family will likely suffer in one way or another.
  2. Sense of loss of youth - if a couple feels this way, there’s a decent chance they are not mentally prepared to raise children. One or both of them could have unresolved issues from childhood that need to be worked out with a professional before they are in a good position to raise children.
  3. Cramped social life - like free time, a healthy amount of adult interaction is essential to a parent’s mental health and overall well-being. Having time to interact with just adults can refresh the mind and make a person a better parent.
  4. Changes in sex life - if pregnancy inhibits sex, and both spouses feel that would put a significant strain on their relationship, that can cause problems for the kids if the parents’ relationship is strained. Honestly, though, trying for a baby and pregnancy itself (provided it is an uncomplicated pregnancy) makes for a better sex life since it’s not restricted by NFP, so this one doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
  5. Inopportune timing - this is vague and could mean a lot of things, many of which could be perfectly legitimate.
  6. Distaste for bodily functions - if someone suffers from OCD, this struggle can be very real and is far from trivial.
  7. Materialism - inordinate attachment to material things isn’t good, but it’s hard to judge true materialism. For instance: my mother. Her primary way of showing love is through giving and generosity. Her parents were the same way, and that’s just her love language. There is a real difference between this and true materialism. My mother doesn’t give people things to be materialistic. She does it as a genuine expression of her love for them. I can see parents who feel this way having only so many kids so they can be as generous as possible with them. Whether or not that constitutes spoiling or encouraging materialism is another conversation. But the point is, just because someone seems attached to possessions doesn’t mean they are selfish or materialistic.
As Xantippe says, this is why there is no specific list. Almost any reason anyone comes up with can be “serious” in certain circumstances. The danger of listing examples like this is that it opens the door for judgement. “Bob and Carol would rather go out with their friends than have another baby. How selfish!” When really, that is the only time they have to recharge, as I mentioned earlier. And these things are known only to God. Not saying you’re going around judging people, I’m just saying that listing specific reasons opens the door to judgment.

So, to answer the OP’s question: There are no specific examples of reasons that are not serious for NFP. It is up to each couple to discern.
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That’s true.
It’s also why this topic will always be debated without an answer. Since the church’s guidance is subjective people, being human, will always compare, justify, feel guilty, feel superior, and judge others. All of us who have participated in these discussions have fallen into these categories. I might as well start a thread about how much to tithe and where.
 
No one is selfish, prideful, or vain in the same ways or about the same things. That is why it is really hard if not impossible to state what serious, grave or just reasons are. If we are honest, though, everyone knows it when they see it–especially in themselves. If we use NFP in a way that allows us to remain selfish or prideful or vain, etc, then we are abusing NFP and using it sinfully. If that doesn’t apply to you or your reasons, then don’t worry about it. If it does, confess and work on it.
 
Concise summary of the Teaching of the Church:

Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI

497. When is it moral to regulate births?

2368-2369
2399

The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.

**498. What are immoral means of birth control?
**
2370-2372

Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
 
“The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform ******to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.”

Reading this makes me feel much better about my and my husband’s choices for our family. Even though many people have told us how wrong we are to continue having children, it would be wrong for us to use NFP to ease that pressure from others on us. Thank you for posting this.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
That’s true.
It’s also why this topic will always be debated without an answer. Since the church’s guidance is subjective people, being human, will always compare, justify, feel guilty, feel superior, and judge others. All of us who have participated in these discussions have fallen into these categories. I might as well start a thread about how much to tithe and where.
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Right.

Another reason it’s near to impossible to formulate examples is that it’s possible to do virtually anything either selfishly or unselfishly. I can risk my life running into a burning building to save a child just to get my picture in the paper, all while having absolutely no concern for the child I saved. What determines whether or not a reason for using NFP is “just” or “serious” is whether or not it’s done selfishly - not the reason itself. That is why the Church doesn’t present a list of specific reasons. Rather the Church just states that NFP should not be used selfishly.
 
kptrs said:
  1. Changes in sex life - if pregnancy inhibits sex, and both spouses feel that would put a significant strain on their relationship, that can cause problems for the kids if the parents’ relationship is strained. **Honestly, though, trying for a baby and pregnancy itself (provided it is an uncomplicated pregnancy) makes for a better sex life since it’s not restricted by NFP, so this one doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. **
[snip]

7.** Materialism - inordinate attachment to material things isn’t good, but it’s hard to judge true materialism.** For instance: my mother. Her primary way of showing love is through giving and generosity. Her parents were the same way, and that’s just her love language. There is a real difference between this and true materialism. My mother doesn’t give people things to be materialistic. She does it as a genuine expression of her love for them. I can see parents who feel this way having only so many kids so they can be as generous as possible with them. Whether or not that constitutes spoiling or encouraging materialism is another conversation. But the point is, just because someone seems attached to possessions doesn’t mean they are selfish or materialistic.

As Xantippe says, this is why there is no specific list. **Almost any reason anyone comes up with can be “serious” in certain circumstances. **The danger of listing examples like this is that it opens the door for judgement. “Bob and Carol would rather go out with their friends than have another baby. How selfish!” When really, that is the only time they have to recharge, as I mentioned earlier. And these things are known only to God. Not saying you’re going around judging people, I’m just saying that listing specific reasons opens the door to judgment.

So, to answer the OP’s question: There are no specific examples of reasons that are not serious for NFP. It is up to each couple to discern.
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Yes. I agree with the whole post, but especially the bolded parts.
 
kptrs said:
Right.

Another reason it’s near to impossible to formulate examples is that it’s possible to do virtually anything either selfishly or unselfishly. I can risk my life running into a burning building to save a child just to get my picture in the paper, all while having absolutely no concern for the child I saved.** What determines whether or not a reason for using NFP is “just” or “serious” is whether or not it’s done selfishly - not the reason itself. **That is why the Church doesn’t present a list of specific reasons. Rather the Church just states that NFP should not be used selfishly.
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Right. It’s possible to do many good things for bad reasons.

And furthermore, I feel like the whole “Am I being selfish?” discussion is kind of an invitation down the scrupulosity rabbit hole, for people with that inclination. It’s nearly always possible to find a bad motive, even combined with many good motives.
 
bitterhope said:
No one is selfish, prideful, or vain in the same ways or about the same things. That is why it is really hard if not impossible to state what serious, grave or just reasons are. If we are honest, though, everyone knows it when they see it–especially in themselves. If we use NFP in a way that allows us to remain selfish or prideful or vain, etc, then we are abusing NFP and using it sinfully. If that doesn’t apply to you or your reasons, then don’t worry about it. If it does, confess and work on it.
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Exactly

👍 :clapping: 🙂
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
That’s true.
It’s also why this topic will always be debated without an answer. Since the church’s guidance is subjective people, being human, will always compare, justify, feel guilty, feel superior, and judge others. All of us who have participated in these discussions have fallen into these categories. ** I might as well start a thread about how much to tithe and where.**
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It actually makes me go tsk tsk that there are probably dozens of huge threads on what constitutes serious reasons for NFP in the CAF archives–whereas there obviously isn’t the same sort of passion for debating the fine points of charitable giving.
 
Xantippe said:
Right. It’s possible to do many good things for bad reasons.

And furthermore, I feel like the whole “Am I being selfish?” discussion is kind of an invitation down the scrupulosity rabbit hole, for people with that inclination. It’s nearly always possible to find a bad motive, even combined with many good motives.
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Yes
 
Xantippe said:
It actually makes me go tsk tsk that there are probably dozens of huge threads on what constitutes serious reasons for NFP in the CAF archives–whereas there obviously isn’t the same sort of passion for debating the fine points of charitable giving.
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I agree.
 
Xantippe said:
Right. It’s possible to do many good things for bad reasons.

And furthermore, I feel like the whole “Am I being selfish?” discussion is kind of an invitation down the scrupulosity rabbit hole, for people with that inclination. It’s nearly always possible to find a bad motive, even combined with many good motives.
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I thought the question was “are our reasons serious and just?”
 
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