Natural Family Planning (NFP) method of spacing conception is approved by the Church for grave reasons and only for a short time?

[thomasf]

You’ve probably heard that God does not give you more than you can handle. Perhaps that is the case with you and your wife.

I would like to think this. Which is why, even before I came back to the church, I always resisted bc. My argument was that if God wants us to get pregnant we will, if not then we won’t.

I’m sure I’ll probably love any step grandkids that come my way. I’m just not real excited about being a grandpa before I’m even 40.

 

[dulcissima]

I’m sure I’ll probably love any step grandkids that come my way. I’m just not real excited about being a grandpa before I’m even 40.

My stepdad was 37 when my first was born. And he has been blessed abundantly for putting up with the house of women (3 daughters). He now has 6 grandkids, 5 of which are boys. Next week he is putting together a camping trip to the beach where we will all be riding ATV’s. I guess the guys have the deciding vote now.

 

[FLCathMom]

You’ve probably heard that God does not give you more than you can handle. Perhaps that is the case with you and your wife.

Yes, I think that really is the point. God knows what we can handle more than we do. I thought I didn’t like children, but God knew that I would. That may not be the case with everyone. I do think that I would not be able to handle kids close together, and due to nutritional issues, I can’t. (I have been anemic my whole life, and when I did get pregnant less than 2 years after the birth of one, I miscarried.) My children are all about three years apart. My oldest is nine and my fourth is a baby. God gives us the family that is right for us.

 

[IUnknown]

This is what confuses me. In other NFP threads, people talk about only using NFP for grave health reasons. Are financial reasons grave? Wouldn’t I be sinning if I practiced the following?

So really, if I were a young man considering marriage to a young woman with 20 or so years of fertility ahead of us, I’d be seriously considering the use of nfp once we had already had a few kids.

thomasf, brings up another issue. So the church is teaching that if you don’t want kids that you shouldn’t marry? And if you’re in a marriage knowing that you don’t want kids you should abstain?

 

[FLCathMom]

Yes, financial reasons can be grave. The CCC says NFP may be practiced for serious reasons (not just health).

 

[thomasf]

My stepdad was 37 when my first was born. And he has been blessed abundantly for putting up with the house of women (3 daughters). He now has 6 grandkids, 5 of which are boys. Next week he is putting together a camping trip to the beach where we will all be riding ATV’s. I guess the guys have the deciding vote now.

If they all turned out to be boys that might not be a bad thing. I’ve been battling 3 women for 10 years now, I could use some help!

 

[Liberanosamalo]

One always has to realize that the Catholic interpretations of marriage and sex and contraception have been made by celibate males. It is like non-drivers making all the traffic rules. With all due respect, Bishops don’t have a clue about marriage and sex. I have been married for 54 years , have seven children and can bring more experience to the subject of marriage and conjugal love than the entire episcopacy. The Church’s position on contraception is just wrong. Call me a heretic !!!

Well, I guess if you look at “experience” as the qualifier, we should look to Hollywood for our guidance. After all, many of those people have had two, three, or four marriages. And they’re obviously experts on sex.

I find it hard to believe this premise. It would mean that my xh would be more of an expert on how to treat a wife (pause for raucous laughter here) than the parish priest, whose job is to teach us how to treat everyone with Christlike love.

Marriages don’t rise and fall on some secret knowlege that only married people know. Marriages succeed or fail based on whether spouses treat each other with the love and respect, sacrificial love and generosity modelled by Christ. And I think in that respect, many priests are much more qualified to give advice than many “husbands”, regardless of how expert they think they are.

For the record, when my xh sought advice on marriage, he asked the guy across the street, who was on his third wife. He didn’t want to talk to the parish priest, who may have told him he was way out of line.

And the Catholic Church’s teachings on marriage and children were not invented by celibate males. They come from God, who is the author of marriage and conjugal love. The reason marriage and family life is so messed up is that self-proclaimed “experts” have tinkered with God’s original plan.

 

[agapewolf]

One always has to realize that the Catholic interpretations of marriage and sex and contraception have been made by celibate males. It is like non-drivers making all the traffic rules. With all due respect, Bishops don’t have a clue about marriage and sex. I have been married for 54 years , have seven children and can bring more experience to the subject of marriage and conjugal love than the entire episcopacy. The Church’s position on contraception is just wrong. Call me a heretic !!!

A celibate man wrote a whole book on theology of the body. He has more insight than ANY of us can ever have, experienced or not. I highly recommend reading what he has to saw, and then say he has no clue.

THe thing is, our bishops and priests DO have a clue…not only do they have the philosophy and theology background (again, the Faith is from Christ who DOES know what He’s talking about), but they tens of thousands of confessions and the heartache that couples go through in their relationships. They live the pain along with their flock. THey know more than any one spouse does from one sid.

It’s not the "church’s " position on contraception. It is GOD’s perspective- the author of life and creator of sex. Read the book

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

So the church is teaching that if you don’t want kids that you shouldn’t marry? And if you’re in a marriage knowing that you don’t want kids you should abstain?

**This is where doing a lot of study on the purpose of marriage would help you. And the purpose of sex.

The Church doesn’t arbitrarily teach that if you don’t want kids you shouldn’t marry. Up until very recently it was just a fact that marriage leads to children. With the birth control culture we have separated sex from one of it’s purposes and therefore distorted the meaning of marriage.

If you are in a marriage and actively destroying all possibilities of conceiving then I doubt the marriage would be valid.

It’s pretty simple but also complicated, lol. Took me a long time to sort through all of the lies and misconceptions (like some old dudes in Rome just don’t want us to have sex) and come to a very basic understanding of why God created sex for us.

Separating procreation from sex is like separating calories from food. it’s not natural or healthy.

malia
**

 

[newbetx]

This is what confuses me. In other NFP threads, people talk about only using NFP for grave health reasons.

thomasf, brings up another issue. So the church is teaching that if you don’t want kids that you shouldn’t marry? And if you’re in a marriage knowing that you don’t want kids you should abstain?

Yes, and no!
There is some misinformation about NFP, even here. The P in NFP is for PLANNING… It is for that function. We were told to start learning it BEFORE getting married. It’s important to understand the fertility cycle as early as you can. I would not wait to learn it “later.” It’s part of “the deal.”

To understand the rest of “the deal”, you’ve signed up for…

In a previous post, there was a suggestion to read Christopher West’s “The Good News about Sex and Marriage”. I second that suggestion. You’ll get a lot of advice here and some of it will confuse you. Most advice here is based on Theology of the Body. Please take the time to read and understand CW’s books on the subject. THEN you can understand your call as God’s children and as a married couple. And how to love your spouse, God and your children. TOB is a really wonderful Package!

 

[True_Irish]

I am always confused when people state that it is against nature to have or desire sex. The last time I checked those desires are quite natural. Then there is the belief that sex w/o the possibility of children is wrong (because Odin spilled his seed and was killed). Well Odin disobayed the ritual of providing his brothers wife children. If I was to attempt to impregnate my brothers wife because he passed away I think the Church might have a problem with it.
As Cathoics we believe Mary was able to concieve with out ever experiencing any sex. If God wanted my wife to get pregnant I do not think any form of contraception would prevent it.
IF we are to believe the early writtings of the church I would not be considered married because I treated my wife as a Harlot when I lusted for her and had intercourse for the pleasure of it. I believe God gave us a beautiful gift in all the forms of sexuality and with that gift we need to be careful my own desires should not over shadow my wife’s. It should be a mutual form of passion in which we become even closer. :

 

[Jennifer_J]

I am always confused when people state that it is against nature to have or desire sex. The last time I checked those desires are quite natural. Then there is the belief that sex w/o the possibility of children is wrong (because Odin spilled his seed and was killed). Well Odin disobayed the ritual of providing his brothers wife children. If I was to attempt to impregnate my brothers wife because he passed away I think the Church might have a problem with it.
As Cathoics we believe Mary was able to concieve with out ever experiencing any sex. If God wanted my wife to get pregnant I do not think any form of contraception would prevent it.
IF we are to believe the early writtings of the church I would not be considered married because I treated my wife as a Harlot when I lusted for her and had intercourse for the pleasure of it. I believe God gave us a beautiful gift in all the forms of sexuality and with that gift we need to be careful my own desires should not over shadow my wife’s. It should be a mutual form of passion in which we become even closer. :

You’re confusing Jewish law with Catholic teachings–of course they are different. The sin of Onan was spilling his seed.
try reading these for a better explaination than I can give:
catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9107chap.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9704chap.asp

btw, the Church doesn’t teach that sex is bad or that the desire for sex is bad, not sure where you are getting this!!!

Jennifer

 

[duskyjewel]

And it was Onan…Odin is an ancient Norse god.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Have not seen, on this thread, any reference to the Couple to Couple League which teaches the details of Natural Family Planning.

Here is their Web site.

ccli.org/

Second, I would like to promote the idea of pro-actively praying to the Holy Spirit for direction and guidance.

We constantly pray to the Father and to the Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. But, in my experience, we RARELY pray to the Holy Spirit … the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, … for direction and guidance.

There are many and complex reasons why people postpone having children. However, in my experience, God is able to change our circumstances in ways we cannot imagine.

In being open to having children, it would help tremendously in terms of our mindset(s) and thinking and emotions, if we leaned more heavily on the Holy Spirit.

It takes deliberate training and effort to make praying to the Holy Spirit a habit. But it’s worth working at.

 

[Johndigger]

Catechism of the Catholic Church 2368:

A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood.

I don’t think it takes grave reasons for NFP to be used - only just reasons.

What constitutues “just”, I guess it’s up for a well-formed conscience to decide but the Church is quite clear that it shouldn’t be done for selfish reasons.

JD

 

[thomasf]

This is where doing a lot of study on the purpose of marriage would help you. And the purpose of sex.

The Church doesn’t arbitrarily teach that if you don’t want kids you shouldn’t marry. Up until very recently it was just a fact that marriage leads to children. With the birth control culture we have separated sex from one of it’s purposes and therefore distorted the meaning of marriage.

If you are in a marriage and actively destroying all possibilities of conceiving then I doubt the marriage would be valid.

It’s pretty simple but also complicated, lol. Took me a long time to sort through all of the lies and misconceptions (like some old dudes in Rome just don’t want us to have sex) and come to a very basic understanding of why God created sex for us.

Separating procreation from sex is like separating calories from food. it’s not natural or healthy.

malia

I’m not talking about using bc, I’m talking about using nfp to skip the fertile times and reduce the risk of pregnancy. There’s still a chance of getting pregnant, and you’re still open to life. Is it such a bad thing to limit the size of your family if you simply don’t want more kids?

And what about just not having sex that often in your marriage? I’ve been married for 5 years now, and my wife and I are getting older and are at a point where it’s not the most important thing in our marriage. But I love her and she’s my partner and best friend. And there are other reasons to be married besides sex. Is that such an awful thing?

 

[True_Irish]

Interesting you pulled out the wife from what I wrote. I didn’t mention wife I said “spouses”. Here’s where I’m coming from.

ewtn.com/library/MARRIAGE/MORMAR.TXT

This quote on obligation is very interesting where did you find it. I do not understand where the Church developed it’s philosophy on sex. I suspect it had to do with the Pagen religions of the time which were in such moral decay the Church wanted to distant themselves from it and help create a safer moral compass for the flock.

 

[Potato1]

This quote on obligation is very interesting where did you find it. I do not understand where the Church developed it’s philosophy on sex. I suspect it had to do with the Pagen religions of the time which were in such moral decay the Church wanted to distant themselves from it and help create a safer moral compass for the flock.

Or it could be that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and the Will of God… I’m just saying…

 

[He_Man]

I am always confused when people state that it is against nature to have or desire sex. The last time I checked those desires are quite natural. Then there is the belief that sex w/o the possibility of children is wrong (because Odin spilled his seed and was killed). Well Odin disobayed the ritual of providing his brothers wife children. If I was to attempt to impregnate my brothers wife because he passed away I think the Church might have a problem with it.
As Cathoics we believe Mary was able to concieve with out ever experiencing any sex. If God wanted my wife to get pregnant I do not think any form of contraception would prevent it.
IF we are to believe the early writtings of the church I would not be considered married because I treated my wife as a Harlot when I lusted for her and had intercourse for the pleasure of it. I believe God gave us a beautiful gift in all the forms of sexuality and with that gift we need to be careful my own desires should not over shadow my wife’s. It should be a mutual form of passion in which we become even closer. :

Oh come on. That’s like saying if I put a gun to my head and pull the trigger, I won’t die if God doesn’t want me to. You can’t really believe that. It sounds more like a convenient justification for doing what you want.

 

[True_Irish]

Your statement, “Oh come on. That’s like saying if I put a gun to my head and pull the trigger, I won’t die if God doesn’t want me to. You can’t really believe that. It sounds more like a convenient justification for doing what you want.” , is more then a little off base. As for your argument if God did not want that bullet through my head it would not happen.
As for the Thread my point is Odin died because he disobeyed God. Not because he spilled his seed nor because he failed to impregnate his sister in law. The penalty for disobeying God is Death. Do not extrapulate anything out of the story being Gods thought on sex. NFP is a form of Birth Control in fact it is the best form of Birth Control. You are not open to creating life with NFP any more or less then if you use any other form of Birth Control. Desiring to have sex w/o offspring is not a sin, because God has granted us many gifts that come from Sex. It creates a closer bond with your spouse it helps you stay as one as God had stated. To demand that the only time in which to have sex is to have sex when you can create life is the same as saying you can only drink water after it has already water your crops and cleaned your body.