Natural Family Planning

[chuck001]

I’m not married, even though it is my desire to get married, but I have come to reject the use of contraception that the Church denounces. However, isn’t NFP a form of contraception in and of itself? In other words, condoms, birth control, IVF, etc., share a similar philosophy as NFP in a manner that it controls when a woman can and will conceive, correct? I know, this is not something I should be concerned about now but being a fairly new Catholic, I desire to explore the teachings and spirituality to gain a better understanding in an effort to be a more godly man and husband to a wife, if marriage is in my cards.

Is there a purpose to knowing the fertility cycles of a woman other than the timing of conception?

Thanks so much everybody

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

No.

The purpose of contraception is to turn a potentially fertile act of sex, infertile so the couple can have sex without the woman becoming pregnant.

The purpose of NFP, when avoiding pregnancy, is to avoid sex when the woman is fertile. A married couple is free to express their love through intercourse anytime during the cycle. They cannot render sex infertile. They are permitted to avoid sex.

 

[chuck001]

No.

The purpose of contraception is to turn a potentially fertile act of sex, infertile so the couple can have sex without the woman becoming pregnant.

The purpose of NFP, when avoiding pregnancy, is to avoid sex when the woman is fertile. A married couple is free to express their love through intercourse anytime during the cycle. They cannot render sex infertile. They are permitted to avoid sex.

The “avoiding pregnancy” is what I’m scratching my head about. I understand the passage in Genesis, “be fruitful and multiply”, is not an iron fist command but I am just wondering if we are taking too much control if God wanted us to conceive at another particular time.

Yeeeeaaaaah, I’m taking this way too deep, sorry. hahaha.

 

[pensmama87]

The “avoiding pregnancy” is what I’m scratching my head about. I understand the passage in Genesis, “be fruitful and multiply”, is not an iron fist command but** I am just wondering if we are taking too much control if God wanted us to conceive at another particular time.**

Yeeeeaaaaah, I’m taking this way too deep, sorry. hahaha.

Here’s a thought exercise that may help with that: If the bolded is true, then how often must couples have sex to make sure they aren’t excluding fertile times? Should they know and learn NFP to conceive on purpose? Would it be wrong to have sex if you knew you were infertile? (Note: Permanent infertility is not an impediment to marriage.)

It’s true that in modern times we can know with greater precision what times are likely to be fertile and not. But it’s not new to abstain from sex if you don’t want to conceive.

Contraception changes the act or one/both of the people involved in the act. Simply not having relations with your spouse is not, by itself, sinful.

 

[1ke]

However, isn’t NFP a form of contraception in and of itself?

No. NFP is information about a woman’s fertility at any given point of her cycle. With that information, a couple makes a decision whether to have relations or abstain from relations based on whether they are trying to achieve or avoid pregnancy at that time.

The decision to abstain is a means of controlling or spacing births, therefore it can properly be termed “birth control” (which the Church doesn’t say is immoral). Contraception is also a means of “birth control”, but not a moral means.

So, what we can say is that abstaining and contraception both achieve the spacing of children, but one is a moral means and one is not.

In other words, condoms, birth control, IVF, etc., share a similar philosophy as NFP in a manner that it controls when a woman can and will conceive, correct?

No. They share no similarities at all.

Is there a purpose to knowing the fertility cycles of a woman other than the timing of conception?

Yes, it can aid in the monitoring of female health overall, and in diagnosis of issues with the reproductive organs and endocrine system including cysts, cancers, hormonal irregularities, and other diseases and defects.

 

[chuck001]

Here’s a thought exercise that may help with that: If the bolded is true, then how often must couples have sex to make sure they aren’t excluding fertile times? Should they know and learn NFP to conceive on purpose? Would it be wrong to have sex if you knew you were infertile? (Note: Permanent infertility is not an impediment to marriage.)

It’s true that in modern times we can know with greater precision what times are likely to be fertile and not. But it’s not new to abstain from sex if you don’t want to conceive.

Contraception changes the act or one/both of the people involved in the act. Simply not having relations with your spouse is not, by itself, sinful.

You make a great point but the backdrop of my original post centers on who is actually in control. Who determines permanent infertility? There are thousands of stories of how women were deemed barren, yet, ended up miraculously pregnant. This happened to a close friend of our family. On the flip side, I could safely say there are plenty of couples who have had no known impediments with fertility and could never get pregnant.

I’m certainly not opposed to the practices of NFP, as I do see it as holy and honorary versus actual contraceptives. I guess after pondering it, I am coming to believe that when a man and woman are married, sex is a secondary means of expressing their love that already exists between them spiritually. Having children, to me, would be something we should not plan but left solely up to God.

 

[1ke]

Having children, to me, would be something we should not plan but left solely up to God.

I’d suggest reading Humanae Vitae if you haven’t already.

The Church encourages responsible parenthood and that can sometimes mean spacing or delaying for a time or indefinitely. A couple can achieve that through periodic or complete continence.

 

[pensmama87]

You make a great point but the backdrop of my original post centers on who is actually in control. Who determines permanent infertility? There are thousands of stories of how women were deemed barren, yet, ended up miraculously pregnant. This happened to a close friend of our family. On the flip side, I could safely say there are plenty of couples who have had no known impediments with fertility and could never get pregnant.

I’m certainly not opposed to the practices of NFP, as I do see it as holy and honorary versus actual contraceptives. I guess after pondering it, I am coming to believe that when a man and woman are married, sex is a secondary means of expressing their love that already exists between them spiritually. Having children, to me, would be something we should not plan but left solely up to God.

But as a married couple, you do decide whether or not to have sex, and when, and there are many factors that go into that decision. God cooperates with our free will. It is our job to use it rightly.

In addition to Humanae Vitae, Simcha Fisher’s The Sinner’s Guide to Natural Family Planning is a great and very accessible resource.

 

[ela2]

Having children, to me, would be something we should not plan but left solely up to God.

Believe me, you’ll change the way you think once the children do start coming

 

[steve93]

Believe me, you’ll change the way you think once the children do start coming

What’s the deal with people putting “Europe” or “EU” as a location. Don’t people have any nationalism anymore?

 

[UbiCaritas]

What’s the deal with people putting “Europe” or “EU” as a location. Don’t people have any nationalism anymore?

ETA: sigh. Forgot to check the poster’s history.

Short version: sometimes people don’t like to put particularly identifying information on the web, especially when they’re women. Very sensible.

 

[ela2]

What’s the deal with people putting “Europe” or “EU” as a location. Don’t people have any nationalism anymore?

I converted…I ‘betrayed’ another religion, i’m sort of wanted…why would I announce where I am? Not everyone has the same kind of life.

Or simply I don’t want anyone to know as Ubicaritas said. Thank you now back to the thread.

 

[Anglewannabe]

In other words, condoms, birth control, IVF, etc., share a similar philosophy as NFP in a manner that it controls when a woman can and will conceive, correct?

Wrong, wrong and wrong. condoms and birthcontrol pills make a woman NOT have kids. NFP does NOT change a woman’s cycle.

 

[macstar]

Is there a purpose to knowing the fertility cycles of a woman other than the timing of conception?

Yes, every woman has a right to know her fertility. It also helps with a man’s understanding of her body.

Single women learn about their fertility for health reasons, as do married women and religious sisters and nuns.

Doctors ask patients to record information about their cycles to identify problems and treat them.

 

[AiyanaS]

Wrong, wrong and wrong. condoms and birthcontrol pills make a woman NOT have kids. NFP does NOT change a woman’s cycle.

Condoms do not change a women’s cycle, its a barrier method. Birth control is a chemical method that does change a woman’s cycle. Condoms and birth control however, are used to control when a woman can and will conceive. Just like NFP is used to control when a woman can and will conceive, as some people use NFP to increase their chances of pregnancy, while others use it strictly for contraception purposes. NFP is used to map out a woman’s cycle to determine when they are either most or least likely to conceive, so yes NFP can be used to make a woman not have kids. Yes, it can fail, people can miss time the least fertile days just like there can be a hole in a condom or a condom could break or birth control could fail and thus the woman ends up pregnant when she didn’t want too.

 

[tafan]

… Having children, to me, would be something we should not plan but left solely up to God.

Good attitude. This was the approach we always took. Not one of our kids was “planned”. I think this leads to the most healthy marriage/family life. NFP is not always easy (not that I have much experience ), and it certainly does not seem “natural” when a couple is practicing NFP.
But, and its a big but, the approach of just “leaving it up to God” is simply not possible for many, likely most, couples. Kids are expensive (well they wouldn’t be that expensive if it wasn’t for Catholic schools, but that’s another issue). Some couples simply have to space their kids out a little more than nature does just to be able to keep their sanity. There could be health reasons. Whatever, the Church says that we should be responsible and plan accordingly.

 

[pensmama87]

Good attitude. This was the approach we always took. Not one of our kids was “planned”. I think this leads to the most healthy marriage/family life. NFP is not always easy (not that I have much experience ), and it certainly does not seem “natural” when a couple is practicing NFP.
But, and its a big but, the approach of just “leaving it up to God” is simply not possible for many, likely most, couples. Kids are expensive (well they wouldn’t be that expensive if it wasn’t for Catholic schools, but that’s another issue). Some couples simply have to space their kids out a little more than nature does just to be able to keep their sanity. There could be health reasons. Whatever, the Church says that we should be responsible and plan accordingly.

To add an important piece of this, “nature’s spacing” can look very different from woman to woman, too. My kids so far couldn’t have been spaced closer than they are - 2-2.5 years apart. But some women are fertile again a month or so after giving birth, even if they breastfeed.

That’s not something you can take into account until you’ve actually had a baby.

 

[UbiCaritas]

To add an important piece of this, “nature’s spacing” can look very different from woman to woman, too. My kids so far couldn’t have been spaced closer than they are - 2-2.5 years apart. But some women are fertile again a month or so after giving birth, even if they breastfeed.

That’s not something you can take into account until you’ve actually had a baby.

Exactly.

I have a fair number of mom friends who breastfeed. Their experiences range from exclusive, ecological breastfeeding yet still starting cycles at 6 weeks postpartum to the complete opposite end of the spectrum, wherein any nursing or pumping at all over the course of a day seems to delay cycles indefinitely.

It can work very well for some women, and not at all for others. (One friend is quite aggrieved that she seems unable to conceive unless she has totally weaned the toddler du jour for a couple of months!)

 

[Xantippe]

Exactly.

I have a fair number of mom friends who breastfeed. Their experiences range from exclusive, ecological breastfeeding yet still starting cycles at 6 weeks postpartum to the complete opposite end of the spectrum, wherein any nursing or pumping at all over the course of a day seems to delay cycles indefinitely.

It can work very well for some women, and not at all for others. (One friend is quite aggrieved that she seems unable to conceive unless she has totally weaned the toddler du jour for a couple of months!)/QUOTE]

I can imagine that might be very aggravating if one had been totally sold on the idea of tandem nursing a toddler and infant.

 

[Rau]

The “avoiding pregnancy” is what I’m scratching my head about.

There is no inherent wrong in avoiding pregnancy. Circumstances can make that acceptable, wise or even imperative.

The Church only finds *intrinsic wrong *in certain means of avoiding pregnancy not the decision to avoid.