Natural Moral Law

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I used to think that I wanted to study philosophy, but I got intellectual nosebleeds …
FYI Natural Law is the subject I ask of claimed athiests, I ask because I want an answer however they often leave frustrated, which is not my intent. Here is the problem: Most athiests do not believe in Natural [Moral] Law and yet they espouse its virtues (:whacky:). So the question becomes:

If god does not install Natural [Moral] Law from where does it come?
OR
If Natural [Moral] Law does not exist then immoral behavior cannot exist?

So maybe considering this will affect your past thoughts?
 
I think it’s easy to believe that most atheists deny the existence of natural law. I don’t know personally that they espouse its virtues.

If that is true, then there are no atheists in foxholes because they do recognize something someplace as the truth.

Harvard Law Prof Allen Dershowitz is a skeptic and as much an atheist as I can tell. I recall his debate with Allen Keyes (?). There is something symmetrical about him being a deep agnostic, a skeptic, and being a law professor leaning towards being an expert on legal defense.

Which is to say from my perspective that he even enjoys denying everything, which turns out to be beneficial for his legal clients. He denies the “inalienable” rights referred to in the Declaration of Independence, he says that they are alienated all the time and are certainly not inalienable – anything BUT inalienable.
 
I think it’s easy to believe that most atheists deny the existence of natural law. I don’t know personally that they espouse its virtues.
Personally I find no need to deny the existence of Natural Law since believing in such a thing or not can make no practical difference unless there was some way that we could directly compare an assertion about moral truth to this Law for agreement.
If that is true, then there are no atheists in foxholes because they do recognize something someplace as the truth.
Atheists do indeed think that some assertions are true and others false, and I don’t know about other atheists, but this one tries to avoid being in foxholes. If others do as well that may explain our poor representation in them. I am aware of first hand accounts of atheists you claim to have been in a foxhole and remained atheists.

Best,
Leela
 
…Harvard Law Prof Allen Dershowitz is a skeptic and as much an atheist as I can tell. I recall his debate with Allen Keyes (?). There is something symmetrical about him being a deep agnostic, a skeptic, and being a law professor leaning towards being an expert on legal defense.

Which is to say from my perspective that he even enjoys denying everything, which turns out to be beneficial for his legal clients. He denies the “inalienable” rights referred to in the Declaration of Independence, he says that they are alienated all the time and are certainly not inalienable – anything BUT inalienable.
Well I do not follow him however it would be interesting to hear him define LAW. It would seem he would have huge problems to overcome with the origins of Law…
 
I am trying to come up with some examples of natural moral law. For example, when someone says, “All morality is relative,” I want to be able to give them examples of situations that are–obviously and unassailably–wrong (or right) regardless of one’s opinion about them. So far, I have come up with two.

I think this is an essential (albiet philosophical point): if there are things that are true, regardless of our opinons, then there is Truth, i.e. an objecitve moral truth that must, by virtue of it’s existence, have an origin is something beyond humankind. If we can use our reason to ascertain these moral truths…you see where I am going with this.

I realize this is not original thinking from me. What I want are examples to ‘prove’ that there are objective moral truths that can be ascertained by human reason. If you can think of some, have at it…but (for purposes of our discussion) be prepared to ‘defend’ them from relativistic attacks.

Have some coffee first. 🙂
Secular society most often views human nature from the philosophical, educational, and political influences of the Rousseauistic period (“ 18th -19th century enlightenment”), en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Jacques_Rousseau , whereby the human person is born whole but has been corrupted by societal influences. “Through correctives ranging from revolution to therapy, human beings can become whole once again,” (“but these secular thoughts most often excludes little place for the confessional or for mortification of the flesh”).

Although Natural Law and tradition accepts as a premise God writing His Laws within the human heart, the will of God always transcends any idea we may have of it. The Divine Law of God cannot be objectified and defined. This imprinting in the human heart only means that human beings have been given the radical capacity for self-reflection and thereby can discern how they should act in particular situations. God’s will remains there always as a summons to a point which always lies beyond our grasp, “a call to perfect love.”

Pope John Paul II illustrates an excellent presentation of natural law in his beautiful encyclical Veritatis Splendor. In summary; Natural Law does “not” impose itself upon us from without, as do laws of physical nature or civil prohibitions. It affects us from within, in the form of deep inclinations which move us, in the intimacy of our hearts, toward the end destined by our spiritual nature, toward the happiness to which God calls us (“Veritatis Splendor no. 43”). The encyclical frequently cites the five natural inclinations noted by Saint Thomas Aquinas; desire for the good, the instinct of self-preservation, the generation and rearing of children, the seeking of truth and cultivation of social life. It adds to these the contemplation of beauty (”Veritatis Splendor no.51”). The chief precepts of natural law flow from these inclinations, as do also the fundamental human rights and duties.

On the whole, Catholic tradition has identified the Ten Commandments, especially the second tablet or the last seven, as being precepts of the Natural Law. Yet, neither in the Old Testament nor in the New Testament do the Ten Commandments appear as a codified system of law. Their character is more revelatory than legal. The Hebrew Septuagint referred to them as the “Decalogue”, catholic-resources.org/Bible/Decalogue.htm thus emphasizing the revelatory character in the words of the Decalogue. Christian Orthodox theology interpreting the patristic tradition likewise identified the content of natural law, in large part, with the Ten Commandments. It views natural law as a common denominator as ethics, i.e., “a very elemental moral law which articulates the absolutely necessary modes of behavior for the maintenance of the human community”. Thus its content is seen solely as addressing basic social relationships which permit and protect the existence of human society. In the Orthodox tradition, natural law does not consider our human physical make-up or our relationship to the rest of creation.
Within Roman Catholic tradition, Saint Thomas Aquinas distinguished between primary and secondary precepts of natural law. The primary precepts are universal, unchangeable, and absolute. They include transcendental precepts, or very general norms having no specific material content, such as “Do good and avoid evil,” “Love your neighbor” and “Give everyone his or her just due.” Thus, Pope John Paul II explains in his encyclical Veritatis Splendor that the precepts of natural law are universal inasmuch as they lay down the rights and duties that protect human dignity.

This universality of natural law does not ignore the individuality of human beings, nor is it opposed to the absolute uniqueness of each person. By submitting to common law, our acts build up the true communion of persons and by God’s grace, practice charity, (“which binds everything together in perfect harmony”) (“Col 3:14”). When on the contrary they disregard the law, or are merely ignorant of it, whether culpably or not, our acts damage the communion of persons, to the detriment of each.

Saint Thomas also maintained that the precepts of the Decalogue themselves, inasmuch as they contain the quality of justice is immutable. Furthermore, negative precepts of natural law interpreted according to the (“order of nature”). i.e., certain physically defined actions which may never be used as a means for a good cause are considered by him to be absolute. Thus Saint Thomas Aquinas “condemns” fornication, direct killing of an innocent person, taking property one has no right to, divorce and polygamy. He states for example, that the end of the act itself (“fornication”) by its nature is disordered even if the person acting could be intending a good end. The end does not suffice to excuse the act, just as clearly the case with the one who steals with the intention of giving alms.
 
Referring back to the encyclical Veritatis Splendor we read: the fact that only the negative commandments oblige always and under all circumstances does not mean that in the moral life prohibitions are more important than the obligations to do good indicated by the positive commandments. The reason is this; the commandment of love of God and neighbor does not have in its dynamic any higher limit, but it does have a lower limit, beneath which the commandment is broken. Secondary precepts, or conclusions drawn from common principles, are the same for most people but their desire or awareness of what is right may be lacking. Saint Thomas Aquinas thus recognized that historicity is “part” of natural law as far as its “material” or secondary precepts are concerned, “but not in its formal or primary principles.

In the end; St. Thomas Aquinas himself is not precisely clear as to what precepts pertain to primary or to the secondary aspects of natural law. However; he does recognize that God has transferred a certain authority to human beings, such as empowering civil government to condemn a criminal according to aspects of human law. In view of this lack of clarity, many Catholic moralists today, who follow the secular trends in modern philosophy, and deny that there exist any moral absolutes according to the “order of nature,” or that it is quite clear that in our modern age of relativism the “order of reason” alone determines what is in accordance with natural law.

The person centered approach to morality called forth by Vatican II Council does not see the content of natural law as being some extrinsic limitation arbitrarily imposed upon us by religion or society. It strives, rather, to place before us our intrinsic nature as embodied spirits living now in the dual realms of time and eternity, of “becoming” and “Being”. Thus natural law sets before us the call to total personal integration which comes about through the proper ordering of complementary tensions (“physical-spiritual”), (“temporal-eternal”), (“individual-social”, etc.) that constitutes the dynamic core of what it means to be a human being. Hence, to affirm moral absolutes regarding certain basic human values like life and sexuality does not necessarily imply a physicist or biological view of natural law. Those who make such remarks may themselves be revealing an overly spiritualistic or dis-incarnate view of man. They may be implying, without being aware of it, that man is merely spirit and that the morality of his activity is determined wholly by his spiritual intentionality, whereas, in fact, man is essentially an incarnate spirit and hence, his earthly life and other basic values have a determinant role in his moral life.

Therefore; the content of natural law, “is absolute, universal, and immutable in its very core”, (“inasmuch as it participates in and gives expression to the call of Transcendence, the Eternal Law of God, written within our being.”).

See; cuapress.cua.edu/BOOKS/viewbook.cfm?Book=GOTA

p://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor_en.html
 
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