NDE's (Near Death Experiences)

[cornbread_r2]

I found this to be highly unbeneficial simply because it is written by a man whose has absolutely no experience in nde research and had never published a peer reviewed paper on an nde study.

Keith Augustine’s essay is an overview of the subject and wasn’t intended to present new research. As such, I think it does a good job of presenting the wide range of NSEs that have been reported. For instance, I posted that essay in response to another poster (here) who wrote:

I find it curious that doctors and scientists claim the dying brain is hallucinating these end-of-life visions. If that’s true, why do all the visions have a similar theme running through them? The patient always sees a light, and/or a dead relative, and/or a heavenly visitor such as an angel or Jesus and are told that it’s not their time yet.

As KA’s essay clearly shows – by citing the available research of others from all over the world – not everyone meets Jesus or angels or chats with dead relatives. In other words, NDEs are not cross-culturally consistent and that’s a big problem for those who want to use NDEs as proof of a particular afterlife.

The most recent peer reviewed aware study published in 2014 in the secular uk medical journal rescusitation shows a patient having a veridical nde for a full 3 minutes without a functional brain . Keith Augustine and the infidels website belong to the religion of atheism and have an emotional a priori bias against Ndes being real . The vast majority of nde scientists don’t share mister Augustine’s emotionally biased view on Ndes simply because 50 years of research point against Ndes being caused by the brain . The aware 2 study will shut this door for good and it will go global if they have 3 to 5 bulls eyes

I don’t know if KA is an atheist or not. Regardless, believe it or not, not only are there atheists who believe in an afterlife, there are theists who believe in an afterlife but who don’t believe NDEs are a glimpse into the afterlife. More to the point, KA’s religious views or his alleged emotional response are irrelevant to his argument – the argument that you completely ignored.

Do you have citations for a poll or survey that references this “vast majority of nde scientists” that I can access?

 

[Faith1960]

Fr. Robert J. Spitzer, S.J., has some interesting material on this issue at

magisreasonfaith.org/life_after_death.html

I personally don’t find it very convincing (nor does it affect my faith one way or the other), but you can have a look and see what you think.

Then does Spitzer believe in NDEs?

 

[Faith1960]

I found this to be highly unbeneficial simply because it is written by a man whose has absolutely no experience in nde research and had never published a peer reviewed paper on an nde study.

The most recent peer reviewed aware study published in 2014 in the secular uk medical journal rescusitation shows a patient having a veridical nde for a full 3 minutes without a functional brain . Keith Augustine and the infidels website belong to the religion of atheism and have an emotional a priori bias against Ndes being real . The vast majority of nde scientists don’t share mister Augustine’s emotionally biased view on Ndes simply because 50 years of research point against Ndes being caused by the brain . The aware 2 study will shut this door for good and it will go global if they have 3 to 5 bulls eyes

So if ndes are real but they go against Church teaching, where does that leave us Catholics?

 

[Memaw]

So if ndes are real but they go against Church teaching, where does that leave us Catholics?

The person that has a NDE probably thinks it is real, But there is NO real proof they are. I think there are toooo many different experiences to fit one God to ever prove they are real. I don’t think the Church has ever made a definite statement either way. It has denied there ever being a possibility of reincarnation and so has Sacred Scripture! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Faith1960]

The person that has a NDE probably thinks it is real, But there is NO real proof they are. I think there are toooo many different experiences to fit one God to ever prove they are real. I don’t think the Church has ever made a definite statement either way. It has denied there ever being a possibility of reincarnation and so has Sacred Scripture! God Bless, Memaw

This wouldn’t be reincarnation. Blind people see. People relay conversations that took places in other rooms. A,woman told of a,shoe out on the ledge that no one could have known about. Etc.

 

[TonyBS]

The person that has a NDE probably thinks it is real, But there is NO real proof they are. I think there are toooo many different experiences to fit one God to ever prove they are real. I don’t think the Church has ever made a definite statement either way. It has denied there ever being a possibility of reincarnation and so has Sacred Scripture! God Bless, Memaw

The fact that they can tell what was happening when they were dead even in other rooms or places around them is proof enough that this life is that of the Flesh and our Spirit will enter the worlds of God upon our death.

Each experience is interesting, but to those that did not experience it, is only of Interest.

A lot of NDE are uncanny with their accuracy to Religious Writings that tell what Life after Death may be like.

I think NDE and Dreams are just a snippet from God to the Life of the Spirit. A reassurance one might say the the Mighty Power of Gods Word.

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

So if ndes are real but they go against Church teaching, where does that leave us Catholics?

With a little more thinking to do

God bless and Regards Tony

 

[SyroMalankara]

What are the various opinions and thoughts of the members here about NDE’s? I’ve seen various stories on YouTube and have been intrigued by what the people involved have “learned” from their experiences. Each one generally has a bright light that generates a warmth and love that they’ve not experienced on Earth. One person experienced some demons from Hell and after he called out to Jesus he was brought into the light. Another person experienced the warmth and light but came back understanding that we become reincarnated as another person.

What do your faith traditions teach about NDE’s or do they?

Thanks!

Rita

My thoughts, that they vary from nonsense to misunderstood trauma. Not authentically NDEs.

 

[Faith1960]

My thoughts, that they vary from nonsense to misunderstood trauma. Not authentically NDEs.

Then how cold the blind who’ve never seen, see, or people can describe what happened in another room when they weren’t there?

 

[GEddie]

Originally Posted by Faith1960 View Post
So if ndes are real but they go against Church teaching, where does that leave us Catholics?

With a little more thinking to do

God bless and Regards Tony

Indeed.

That is probably why such experience accounts are completely absent from Scripture despite the numerous returns from death found in it. After all, if the Word of God contained accounts of NDE, a false NDE closely resembling them could lead many astray.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Memaw]

Then how cold the blind who’ve never seen, see, or people can describe what happened in another room when they weren’t there?

They could be “seeing” what they had read about and who would know the difference. That reading would be in their brain and imagination just like what we see and read is in our brain and in our imagination. Otherwise how do you explain all the different kinds of dreams, some pretty scary, really strange, etc. that we all have. Could be lots of explanations. God Bless, Memaw

 

[GEddie]

They could be “seeing” what they had read about and who would know the difference. That reading would be in their brain and imagination just like what we see and read is in our brain and in our imagination. Otherwise how do you explain all the different kinds of dreams, some pretty scary, really strange, etc. that we all have. Could be lots of explanations. God Bless, Memaw

The difference is that the blind do not dream visually, unless they recently became blind.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Memaw]

This is one of the most researched experiences - theknowledgeofgod.com/books/Glimpse_of_Paradise.pdf

Regards Tony

NOT at all convincing, This woman seems to have had a very active imagination since childhood and this all built up in her belief in Baha’i. There’s not a God for each set of beliefs. One God, who is the same today, tomorrow and forever. He is the Truth and only Truth. That’s why I am not convinced of these NDE’s. Their story seems to fit their particular idea of God. God Bless, Memaw

 

[TonyBS]

NOT at all convincing, This woman seems to have had a very active imagination since childhood and this all built up in her belief in Baha’i. There’s not a God for each set of beliefs. One God, who is the same today, tomorrow and forever. He is the Truth and only Truth. That’s why I am not convinced of these NDE’s. Their story seems to fit their particular idea of God. God Bless, Memaw

That is why it is meant for the person that Had the experience.

From a Baha’i Perspective, there are many things in that account that tie into the writings of the Faith and of Other religious scriptures.

There are far to many parts of these stories that tie into each other as well.

The Baha’i Scriptures say when our heart does its last beat we close our eyes to this Life and open them to the real life of the Spirit.

Big subject and much written on it. I great topic in fact. Of great interest.

Regards Tony

 

[Memaw]

The difference is that the blind do not dream visually, unless they recently became blind.

ICXC NIKA

And how does anyone know that what she wasn’t describing something she read about. She is still blind and cannot let one know if she recognizes a leaf, (or anything else) by looking at the picture. She simply has to describe what was described to her in what she read. I imagine blind people have imaginations too. I had a blind Geography teacher in high school that we would have sworn he could see at times. His books were in Braille. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Faith1960]

The difference is that the blind do not dream visually, unless they recently became blind.

ICXC NIKA

Also, the blind can only read Braille. That wouldn’t give them the ability to be able to describe what they saw during a NDE or OBE in their own words.

 

[Faith1960]

Indeed.

That is probably why such experience accounts are completely absent from Scripture despite the numerous returns from death found in it. After all, if the Word of God contained accounts of NDE, a false NDE closely resembling them could lead many astray.

ICXC NIKA.

I think Memaw is equating NDEs and OBEs with reincarnation. Is it the same thing or not?

 

[Memaw]

Also, the blind can only read Braille. That wouldn’t give them the ability to be able to describe what they saw during a NDE or OBE in their own words.

I think you underestimate what the blind can do. Have you ever read about Helen Keller and there are plenty more that have lived amazing lives and accomplished great things. God Bless, Memaw

 

[GEddie]

I think Memaw is equating NDEs and OBEs with reincarnation. Is it the same thing or not?

They are not, and indeed, if one were reincarnated, by definition they could not come back, hence, no NDE.

Some however seem to come back from NDE and then develop ideas about reincarnation.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Memaw]

I think Memaw is equating NDEs and OBEs with reincarnation. Is it the same thing or not?

NO! I was NOT. I do know the difference but some thought they were being reincarnated in their NDE’s Just another reason why I do not believe in them. God Bless, Memaw