Neanderthals, Adam, and Eve

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Neanderthal burial sites show signs of a belief in the afterlife, and care and love given to the deceased - buried with flowers, or posed with rocks under their head like a pillow. They could certainly interbreed with homo sapiens (I have about 2% Neanderthal DNA, apparently). Now there is more attention being paid to another human species contemporaneous with Neanderthals, the Denisovans, who also interbred with Homo Sapiens. My guess is that they all also had human souls and were also the descendants of the first ensouled man and woman, whatever their ancestors looked like.
 
Neanderthal burial sites show signs of a belief in the afterlife, and care and love given to the deceased - buried with flowers, or posed with rocks under their head like a pillow. They could certainly interbreed with homo sapiens (I have about 2% Neanderthal DNA, apparently). Now there is more attention being paid to another human species contemporaneous with Neanderthals, the Denisovans, who also interbred with Homo Sapiens. My guess is that they all also had human souls and were also the descendants of the first ensouled man and woman, whatever their ancestors looked like.
Pygmies in Africa. Oriental people. Caucasians.

There is no Scientific evidence about the first ensouled anybody.

Science cannot study the soul.

The Church teaches two individual humans are the ancestors of all humans living today and they brought death and Original Sin into the world.

To combine the two is fiction.

Peace,
Ed
 
A common question.

"Adam and Eve: Real People

"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).

“The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).”
To be honest, I don’t fully understand all of this. This seems to mix up faith and science. The Church has authority of faith and morals, NOT science.
 
To be honest, I don’t fully understand all of this. This seems to mix up faith and science. The Church has authority of faith and morals, NOT science.
If a theory does not fit with what has been revealed, it is wrong.
 
  • I don’t believe we evolved from Neanderthals or monkeys or slime or any of that stuff. I believe Neanderthals existed but they were not human and we did not come from them.
  • God created mankind the way
  • we are, no evolving took place. I don’t know if Neanderthals had souls or not, but they
  • were not human and we didn’t come from them. 😉
-They were just another of God’s creation that looked similar to humans but they did not

-have the - Breath of Life God gave to humanity.
keep in mind what the catholic church teaches about God’s love and truth Humani Generis

maybe they existed maybe the “non-humans”/“human ancestors” did not exist as of this present ther is no definitive or empirical proof for either yet ( at least according to many who hold as partial truth many facets of the four “popular” semi-related and opposing theories ) with this fact and current circumstance in mind here is some plausible proof for at least two of the theories involving the existence or non existence of “pre-humans” or " non-humans."

do not forget what the catholic church teaches on believing in a theory or plausible interpretation that does not have empirical or definitive evidence or facts.
](http://www.catholic.org/green/story.php?id=53434)
Hope this helps You in growing in faith and truth

God bless
 
If a theory does not fit with what has been revealed, it is wrong.
Yes and no. It is a really bad idea to start mixing up faith with science; i.e., making assertive comments about science which the Church has no authority on is a really, really bad idea.
 
Hi, Everyone,

I know the Catholic Church has a pretty “open mind” when it comes to the scientific origins of humanity, since we know that however our bodies got to be the way they are, it was all part of God’s plan. But I’m wondering if there is a fine line with it all. Could our physical bodies have really derived from animals, meaning that our ancestors way back into the fogginess of infinity have been “soul-less”? What about the primitive neanderthals and the hunter-gathering tribes? Do we believe they had souls? And where would “our first parents” fit into this equasion?

Blessings,
Pearl
Since I was a kid, I have always suspected that the Nephilim were the Neanderthal race.

credobiblestudy.com/roman/en/catholic-bible-douay-rheims-ot-book-genesis-gen-chapter-6/1/6/4
 
To be honest, I don’t fully understand all of this. This seems to mix up faith and science. The Church has authority of faith and morals, NOT science.
Incorrect.

"The Time Question

“Much less has been defined as to when the universe, life, and man appeared. The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”

The Church has a Pontifical Academy of Sciences. It even owns an Observatory.

vaticanobservatory.org/

When the Church comments on why embryonic stem cell research is wrong, it has to understand the scientific aspects perfectly. It has even invested in a company to advance adult stem cell research:

lifesitenews.com/news/pope-lauds-adult-stem-cell-research

The problem here is that some people say the Bible is not a science book, but they treat it as if it is. There are no peer reviewed papers on the soul, so anybody referring to the first ensoulled humans gets that news from where? The Church certainly doesn’t teach that. It’s fiction.

Peace,
Ed
 
Yes and no. It is a really bad idea to start mixing up faith with science; i.e., making assertive comments about science which the Church has no authority on is a really, really bad idea.
Without faith that there exists a knowable rational universe, there can be no science.
One of the problems with science is that although practically speaking we are able to build better toys and ways of killing each other, it is taking us away from truth, away from reality.
 
Without faith that there exists a knowable rational universe, there can be no science.
One of the problems with science is that although practically speaking we are able to build better toys and ways of killing each other, it is taking us away from truth, away from reality.
That’s accurate. We’re just walking, talking bags of chemicals who reproduce, or not, and die. Our emotions are just neurons firing in response to outside stimuli. So eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.

God forbid,
Ed
 
Here’s the deal…the ancestoral record has not entirely been erased by integration. We have living, breathing isolated human tribes currently walking the earth who’s ancestors predate Adam and Eve by a factor of 10 if the biblical lineage is taken literally in terms of years. Statements of faith cannot conflict with scientific facts, which are also the handiwork of God, because if they do, it means the statements of faith are from man, not God.
 
Here’s the deal…the ancestoral record has not entirely been erased by integration. We have living, breathing isolated human tribes currently walking the earth who’s ancestors predate Adam and Eve by a factor of 10 if the biblical lineage is taken literally in terms of years. Statements of faith cannot conflict with scientific facts, which are also the handiwork of God, because if they do, it means the statements of faith are from man, not God.
The conflict lies in your understanding of statements of faith. For example, the Church has no opinion as to the date of Adam’s creation. You are most assuredly basing your views about Christian doctrine not on pronouncements of the Church but rather what you hear from other Christian groups and the distortions of atheists. BTW: science is a human activity, knowledge based on our relationship with the rest of the material world; scripture etc are revelations granted to us by the grace of the Holy Spirit. Which do you hold has greater truth?
 
The conflict lies in your understanding of statements of faith. For example, the Church has no opinion as to the date of Adam’s creation. You are most assuredly basing your views about Christian doctrine not on pronouncements of the Church but rather what you hear from other Christian groups and the distortions of atheists.
Don’t make assumptions. I am a Catholic with degrees in physical sciences and engineering. Your assumptions are based on your own personal opinions of other Christian groups, and have nothing to do with me.
BTW: science is a human activity, knowledge based on our relationship with the rest of the material world; scripture etc are revelations granted to us by the grace of the Holy Spirit. Which do you hold has greater truth?
Interpretations of faith and morals are the authority of the Church. Once faith and morals is mixed in with science, the discussion is no longer under the authority of the Church. Science, IMHO, is simply the interpretation of God’s handiwork.
 
Don’t make assumptions. I am a Catholic with degrees in physical sciences and engineering. Your assumptions are based on your own personal opinions of other Christian groups, and have nothing to do with me.

Interpretations of faith and morals are the authority of the Church. Once faith and morals is mixed in with science, the discussion is no longer under the authority of the Church. Science, IMHO, is simply the interpretation of God’s handiwork.
You said:
We have living, breathing isolated human tribes currently walking the earth who’s ancestors predate Adam and Eve by a factor of 10 if the biblical lineage is taken literally in terms of years.
Please clarify what I misinterpreted.

The problem with science and modern secular society, if I understand you correctly, would be precisely what you say here:
Once faith and morals is mixed in with modern science, the discussion is no longer under the authority of the Church
BTW: Since we are disclosing, it is with 99.9% certainty, that I can say that my academic credentials in the sciences excede yours in an area that is very much closer to the subject matter of the OP. So there 😛
 
BTW: Since we are disclosing, it is with 99.9% certainty, that I can say that my academic credentials in the sciences excede yours in an area that is very much closer to the subject matter of the OP. So there 😛
One thing that is a lot of fun about these discussions is that you never know who you are talking to. I have three separate college degrees; one in science, and two in engineering. 🙂

Law school next but I have finish setting up my business…probably about two years from now.
 
Here’s the deal…the ancestoral record has not entirely been erased by integration. We have living, breathing isolated human tribes currently walking the earth who’s ancestors predate Adam and Eve by a factor of 10 if the biblical lineage is taken literally in terms of years. Statements of faith cannot conflict with scientific facts, which are also the handiwork of God, because if they do, it means the statements of faith are from man, not God.
Science has no say in this. None. Church teaching trumps science.

Peace,
Ed
 
Science has no say in this. None. Church teaching trumps science.
Does the Church have authority regarding matters of faith and morals? Yes.

Does that Church have authority regarding matters of science? Absolutely not.

Church “teaching,” whatever that may mean, does not trump matters that the Church has no authority on. You’re attempting to transform something that is not authoritative into something that is authoritative. That’s fine if you wish to make some coherent argument to that end, but recognize that it is your own personal opinion, and not something the Church teaches.
 
Does the Church have authority regarding matters of faith and morals? Yes.

Does that Church have authority regarding matters of science? Absolutely not.

Church “teaching,” whatever that may mean, does not trump matters that the Church has no authority on. You’re attempting to transform something that is not authoritative into something that is authoritative. That’s fine if you wish to make some coherent argument to that end, but recognize that it is your own personal opinion, and not something the Church teaches.
I think the best way to approach this is to say revelation is limited by God to essentials. Original Sin is part of that limited revelation. How Original Sin plays into evolution and science, I don’t know and don’t think I can know. After all, the elements of the story are symbolic anyway, pretty much everyone agrees on that. The problem comes in when some try to ignore the teachings on Original Sin in the name of science. We should teach Original Sin and also embrace science and say where the two connect, we will leave to the Almighty.
 
Does the Church have authority regarding matters of faith and morals? Yes.

Does that Church have authority regarding matters of science? Absolutely not.

Church “teaching,” whatever that may mean, does not trump matters that the Church has no authority on. You’re attempting to transform something that is not authoritative into something that is authoritative. That’s fine if you wish to make some coherent argument to that end, but recognize that it is your own personal opinion, and not something the Church teaches.
"Adam and Eve: Real People

"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).

“The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).”

Peace,
Ed
 
Don’t make assumptions. I am a Catholic with degrees in physical sciences and engineering. Your assumptions are based on your own personal opinions of other Christian groups, and have nothing to do with me.

Interpretations of faith and morals are the authority of the Church. Once faith and morals is mixed in with science, the discussion is no longer under the authority of the Church. Science, IMHO, is simply the interpretation of God’s handiwork.
Code:
                keep in mind that many cultures have myths, legends, stories etc... many
times may have a basis in historical fact and/or science but not always. ( eg: creation

descriptions, the character Noah and the flood, exaggerating amount of years

culture,group has been around eg: Egyptians some " primitive" tribes, and the stories of

one God, Gods, sub-gods, demi-gods, and other tales and histories ) The Catholic Church

is the source and summit of all truth; the fullness of truth, upon her reliabilty in love. truth,

and Traditions stands firm always.

God bless
 
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