Near Death Experiences - Religion vs Spiritual

[Allweather]

Hi
So, even further posts on near-death experiences show no clue of anybody becoming a demigod if not a deity in full, they all remain a human like Jonah was a human. It is for this, in my opinion, that Jesus linked his status with Jonah. He might have an apprehension that his apostles would not withstand him in the tribulations, and when he would survive from the death on Cross and migrate to far-off lands, they might ashamed as they would be in his absence, resort to deifying him so Jesus linked this incidence with Jonah as an infallible measure. I think you would agree with me.
Thanks

The problem for this interpretation is that Jesus “deified” himself while he was in the flesh. The New Testament is very clear on this point. The legal/religious charge against him was blasphemy, that he put himself in the place of God with power to forgive sins. The New Testament goes on at great length describing Jesus’ death, resurrection, ascension, and the gift of the Holy Spirit to the Church, which Jesus promised to the Apostles before he ascended. We also know from the New Testament, and from history, that the Apostles did, in fact, withstand in the tribulations that followed the establishment of the Church. They were all martyred. If they had fears, they evidently did not allow those fears to keep them from their crosses.

So, I think that your entire premise is wrong, based on the New Testament alone. I’m not sure about the exact meaning of what you’re saying about Jonah. According to my memory, Jesus identified with Jonah in the sense of resurrection, ie being in the belly of the whale (or the earth) for three days and then coming back to life, either of which events is miraculous by any definition.

 

[Brenda4God]

Does anyone here remember that movie back like 20 years ago about this? I can’t remember the name of it.

I remember it showing all these people with experiences like floating over their bodies and hearing what people were saying while they were dead. And then there was the whole “going into the light” thing, too.

I remember thinking it was pretty amazing, but maybe it was just Hollywood.

 

[Keikiolu]

I have studied Near Death Experiences for approx 25 years, and I am finding that people that have experienced a Near Death Experience come back as a more spiritual person, and less into religion, also those that have fallen away from religion tend to become athiest. When these non-believers have a Near Death Experience(NDE), they tend to become spiritual, because they are aware of an afterlife.

Much of this life is based on freewill, and faith in the unknown, so those that have not had an NDE will be exercising faith to a greater degree, than those that had one.

People that have an **NDE, **become more spiritual, they have a greater Love for God, and each other, and have a lesser need to follow a religious dogma of a church.

Many people have had an experience of seeing spirits waiting for entry into mortal bodies prior to birth, when they where having an NDE and they where visiting areas of the Spirit world, wether it be Pergatory, Heaven, Paradise, or whatever. Some of these people have a recollection of having been in heaven prior to Earth life, and also they may recognise a spirit of a loved one, that died prior to their birth on Earth.​

Disscussions:

1. The need for Religion - The need to follow religious practices of a church.

Religion is an organic part of being human. Religious practices will always occur with every human, in some form. God has given us His authority as to how to best structure our practices. Following the best practices is the best course, while inferior practices may bring you close to God, they will not bring you as close as the true practices.

1. Spirituality - Can unconditional love be practiced, when we are swamped in Religious Issues, and the materialism of this world?

You can’t be “swamped” by true religion. It is freeing, not “swamping”.

Materialism, as an “addiction”, is always an evil.

1. How can we succeed in life without a Child-like Heart?

You can’t.

1. Can the possibility of having been a spirit prior to Earth life, give a purpose to this life? or NOT?

No, it can’t. Correction: It can’t give a positive purpose to this life, while it CAN give a negative purpose. We were created (human) persons with a body and a soul intrinsically connected. There is no creation of human persons before the simultaneous creation of our bodies and our souls.

1. Can we have both a Religious and a Spiritual Life?..and how do we do both without one snuffing out the other?

There is only the true religious life. “Spiritual life” is simply a synonym of religious life.

1. The need to get the World back in check via Religion, or will there need to be increased number of NDEs to get people to notice that there is a God?

“NDE’s” are highly interpretable non-death events, which bear only VERY distantly on what happens in real death.

Man conforming to religion (the Church) is the only way for “the world” to get “better”. Period.

1. Do you know of anyone that has had an NDE? - What was it like?

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13 People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." 16 And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them. (Mark 10:13-16 NIV)

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Links pertaining to Near Death Experiences:

near-death.com

The International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS)

Google search of NDE

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by **paarsurrey **
Hi
So, even further posts on near-death experiences show no clue of becoming a demigod if not a deity in full, they all remain a human like Jonah. It is for this, in my opinion, that Jesus linked his status with Jonah. He might have an apprehension that his apostles would not withstand him in the tribulations, and when he would survive from the death on Cross and migrate to far-off lands, they might ashamed as they would be in his absence, resort to deifying him so Jesus linked this incidence with Jonah as an infallible measure. I think you would agree with me.

The problem for this interpretation is that Jesus “deified” himself while he was in the flesh.

Hi
Well, I don’t’ agree with you. I respect your view point however.
Jesus promised to show **Sign of Jonah to the adulterous Jews **of his time voluntarily while he was a Son of Man/Woman (in flesh). I don’t think that the Jewish scripture have any punishment for anybody who claims to be God, not to my knowledge.
But they tried to **kill **Jesus by putting him on the Cross which is a punishment of a false Prophet, so that makes it clear that they wanted to prove him a false Prophet, that is why they wanted to kill him a cursed killing on Cross. There was no question of killing him for deifying himself.
“If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, ‘Let us follow other gods’ (gods you have not known) ‘and let us worship them,’ you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you” (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NIV).
So the rational and logical response from Jesus was to say with gesture, that **he can’t be killed on Cross **even for a moment as he was Son of Man/Woman a **True Prophet **of GodAllahYHWH.
That he proved by migrating to India and neighbouring countries after the incident of Crucifixion from Galilee alngowith his mother Mary. He died in Sirinagar, Kasmir , in India and is till buried there.
I think it is very simple to understand; then why make it a mystery?
Peace
Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi
My point is till consistent that even further posts on near-death experiences show no clue of becoming a demigod if not a deity in full, they all remain a human like Jonah. It is for this, in my opinion, that Jesus linked his status with Jonah. He might have an apprehension that his apostles would not withstand him in the tribulations(and these apprehensions proved true when almost all his disceples deserted him in the hour of need), and when he would survive from the death on Cross and migrate to far-off lands, they might ashamed ( the disciples) as they would be in his absence, resort to deifying him so Jesus linked this incidence with Jonah as an infallible measure. I think you would agree with me.

Thanks