near-death experiences

[dcana]

I’ve read several accounts of near-death experiences (“NDE’s”) and find them interesting. I certainly believe that the people who claim to have had them are reporting “real” events - whether they actually “went to heaven” is another matter. I certainly think it is possible, even probable, for many of them, though it’s possible that something is going on with the brain that we don’t understand. Anyway, to get to my point. I wrote the Q&A forum with this question but got no response, so I’ll post it here and see what you guys think.

Since heaven is a purely spiritual place, and God is pure spirit, why do people who claim to have “gone to the other side” for a while report seeing trees, grass, flowers, people they’ve known walking around, etc, etc? How is that possible? In my mind anyway, “heaven” before and after the Resurrection of the Dead is quite different, though the essential element remains the same - namely that heaven is essentially a soul’s total union with God. Everything else is just “icing on the cake.” What they describe seems to me to be like heaven after the Last Day, i.e., on the “New Earth,” which will be a physical place. Prior to that, I understand heaven as more of a spiritual state of being. I mean, disembodied souls have no eyes, so how can they “see?” And if heaven, as it is now, is purely spiritual, what is there to see anyway? Though they might “see” in some way proper to souls, in a “spiritual way,” if you will, whatever that means.

Any thoughts?

 

[scoobydoo6v92]

I’ve read several accounts of near-death experiences (“NDE’s”) and find them interesting. I certainly believe that the people who claim to have had them are reporting “real” events - whether they actually “went to heaven” is another matter. I certainly think it is possible, even probable, for many of them, though it’s possible that something is going on with the brain that we don’t understand. Anyway, to get to my point. I wrote the Q&A forum with this question but got no response, so I’ll post it here and see what you guys think.

Since heaven is a purely spiritual place, and God is pure spirit, why do people who claim to have “gone to the other side” for a while report seeing trees, grass, flowers, people they’ve known walking around, etc, etc? How is that possible? In my mind anyway, “heaven” before and after the Resurrection of the Dead is quite different, though the essential element remains the same - namely that heaven is essentially a soul’s total union with God. Everything else is just “icing on the cake.” What they describe seems to me to be like heaven after the Last Day, i.e., on the “New Earth,” which will be a physical place. Prior to that, I understand heaven as more of a spiritual state of being. I mean, disembodied souls have no eyes, so how can they “see?” And if heaven, as it is now, is purely spiritual, what is there to see anyway? Though they might “see” in some way proper to souls, in a “spiritual way,” if you will, whatever that means.

Any thoughts?

Heaven is not just a spiritual place. But rather a physical place. Jesus Christ our saviour is fully human glorified and said " I will now go and prepare a place for you" “My Father’s house has many mansions” Jesus is saying that Heaven is physical and spiritual. We all will be physical when we are reunited with our glorified bodies. Angels are pure spirit as well as God the Father and the Holy Ghost. But Christ is fully human fully devine and glorified. So with that said. You can understand that there is another side a much better side with horses animals that won’t run away from you like here or eat you the lion will eat grass and there will be no more crying pain or sadness. trees cities all that we have here sans the prisons graveyards hospitals and places of that nature. Scoob.

 

[Rosella]

My theory is NDE’s are a purely neurological phenomenon. No one is flying out of their body to Heaven and back or hovering in the corner of the room. That is imagination just like a dream would be. Could be that in unusual situations when the body is traumatized, as in near-death, or heart/brain/etc fluctuations, that some brain chemicals kick in to protect the system from pain or from some other problem. The reason for grass, horses, people, etc, is this is the same sort of material you find in dreams. This is simply brain chemistry, nothing mystical, nothing spiritual. IMHO.

 

[jbeck43]

What an interesting question. Thanks for bringing it up. I think your question of how we can see if we don’t have physical eyes is actually pretty fascinating–or how we can experience anything if we don’t have any senses. Perhaps it’s like how some may see saints despite the fact that they don’t have physical bodies. I remember how Saint John Bosco recalls how he saw and spoke with Saint Dominic Savio after he died. Or the many bilocations of Saint Padre Pio without apparently his physical body in tow. Or the many apparitions of Saint Therese of Liseux. But you bring up a fine mystery.

My wife had an NDE as a little girl. When she went in for surgery for appendicitis, while on the gurney being wheeled down the the hospital corridor, the walls began to fall away and wonderful, peaceful light inhabited the room. She said it was very different and entirely unique to a psychic or physical event, and being a trained therapist, dealing with patients and drugs on a daily basis, she would seem to know the difference.

So in my experience, I wouldn’t dismiss NDE’s out of hand, but you bring up a good question.

 

[Sherry_G]

Yes, I do believe that God can do anything…including allowing any of us a glimpse of heaven or of hell as He wishes and for His own purpose. I do not think this is some trick of body chemistry. Certainly, I have read books written by people who were complete atheists and through this one experience became devout followers of Jesus Christ, turning their entire lives around totally. I truly do believe there are some people who have had these experiences through God’s mercy and love, and came back to tell about it. Perhaps for their own salvation, but also to be evangelists for the rest of us.

 

[Viki63]

I met a woman who described such an experience in detail. It was very interesting; what I took away from it was that, while she was surrounded with darkness, she felt completely at peace and comforted, and it removed all her fear of death.
I totally believe that she experienced what she described. It has happened to so many people, it would be hard to believe it’s only a neurological glitch.

 

[Cryptic1]

There are many scientific explanations as to why people experience “near death experiences”, but remarkably the studies also show that most individuals who return are changed and exhibit unusual gifts (have knowledge of events or people they did not have prior to this experience). Fluctuations in the brain are not enough to explain away the “extra gifts” these individuals return with so there is more to their experience than science can account for.

In the bible, heaven is described on a physical plane. Jesus spoke of sitting on a throne at the right hand of His father and about going to prepare a place for us as His father had “many mansions”. Even if he were speaking “spiritually”, there would be no point in preparing anything for us for as spiritual beings we would have no need of a house, much less a “mansion”.

I cannot tell you at what point our resurrected bodies become united with our spirits, but I also have read accounts of NDE experiences that speak in real terms of physical bodies and physical places. Suffice it to say that Jesus has gone ahead to prepare a place for each one of us whose name is written in the book of life. I believe the reason for the growing number of NDE experiences is because we are in the last days and God, in His mercy and compassion, is making a final effort to reach out to mankind. With all the evidence we have in front of us, we would be wise to heed the warnings.

 

[Viki63]

I agree we would be wise to heed the warnings, though I am not so sure we are in the last days. Whether or not, each one of us will meet his last day at death . . .
I think we are hearing of more NDE because of more instantaneous communications. Think about it – England heard about the Declaration of Independence being signed about 8 days afterwards. Nowadays, it would be 5 or 10 minutes. We hear about nearly everything in the world right away.

 

[GEddie]

There are more NDEs now simply because medical science can pull tthe human body back from ever more dire conditions than before. Conditions that fifty years ago would have resulted in death, now become an NDE.

While NDEs as such have been attested from antiquity, current interest in them has maximized only after the publication of Moody’s LIFE AFTER LIFE in 1977, when modern resuscitation methods had become widely available.

It is possible, of course, that NDE originates in the dying head. However, that would seem unlikely, since any kind of “mentation” requires oxygen-filled blood in one’s head, which is not of course available in a near-dead body.

And while it is valid to ask how one can see with their eyes rolled back for death; Scripture teaches that “there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body”. Spiritual Body: spiritual senses including sight. So you could go on seeing, etc, after all. Heaven wouldn’t be worth it, after all, if you were left in darkness.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

My father’s heart stopped. A few minutes later they brought him back with the zapper thingy.

As they were wheeling him down the hall, he said that he saw nothing. He said, “I started feeling a little dizzy. Then all of a sudden I’m on the floor on my back, surrounded by people who were a whole lot more excited than I was.”

FWIW,
Alan

 

[dcana]

Thank you for all your responses. I apologize for the (very long) delay.

Heaven is not just a spiritual place. But rather a physical place. Jesus Christ our saviour is fully human glorified and said " I will now go and prepare a place for you" “My Father’s house has many mansions” Jesus is saying that Heaven is physical and spiritual.

I’m not sure that I agree with this, Scoob. According to the Catechism #2794, “the expression, ‘Who art in heaven,’ does not mean a place (‘space’), but a way of being…” A physical place exists in space and time, such that we could say, heaven is located out in space somewhere, near the Andromeda galaxy (let’s say), and we could go there if we had the right means of transport. Though I suppose it could be a physical place, but not in this universe - “somewhere else.” As for what Jesus said, I always took this symbolically, not as a “real” mansion with walls, stairs, and a deck out back for barbeques. Of course, you may take it however you wish. I admit my ignorance as to exactly how Jesus and Mary exist in their physical bodies in heaven. Peter Kreeft wrote a book back in the 90’s (I think) called “Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Heaven but Never Dreamed of Asking.” I’ve been wanting to read it and I think it might help with these questions, but haven’t gotten around to it. It’s on my reading list

My theory is NDE’s are a purely neurological phenomenon. No one is flying out of their body to Heaven and back or hovering in the corner of the room. That is imagination just like a dream would be. Could be that in unusual situations when the body is traumatized, as in near-death, or heart/brain/etc fluctuations, that some brain chemicals kick in to protect the system from pain or from some other problem. The reason for grass, horses, people, etc, is this is the same sort of material you find in dreams. This is simply brain chemistry, nothing mystical, nothing spiritual. IMHO.

I don’t know enough about NDE’s to say for sure, but hasn’t it been scientifically proven that the brain is not functioning during the time that people report having the experiences? If the brain is not functioning then, scientifically speaking, dreams and visions are not happening.

There are many scientific explanations as to why people experience “near death experiences”, but remarkably the studies also show that most individuals who return are changed and exhibit unusual gifts (have knowledge of events or people they did not have prior to this experience). Fluctuations in the brain are not enough to explain away the “extra gifts” these individuals return with so there is more to their experience than science can account for.

What are some of those explanations?

In the bible, heaven is described on a physical plane. Jesus spoke of sitting on a throne at the right hand of His father and about going to prepare a place for us as His father had “many mansions”. Even if he were speaking “spiritually”, there would be no point in preparing anything for us for as spiritual beings we would have no need of a house, much less a “mansion”.

True, but I still think that Jesus is just giving us consoling images of being with the Father, that we are then able to imagine and long for. But, after the Resurrection, we might very well live in houses. Who knows? “Eye has not seen…”

Suffice it to say that Jesus has gone ahead to prepare a place for each one of us whose name is written in the book of life. [Amen!] I believe the reason for the growing number of NDE experiences is because we are in the last days and God, in His mercy and compassion, is making a final effort to reach out to mankind. With all the evidence we have in front of us, we would be wise to heed the warnings.

There are more NDEs now simply because medical science can pull the human body back from ever more dire conditions than before. Conditions that fifty years ago would have resulted in death, now become an NDE.

But couldn’t it be that these two things are “coincidentally” occurring?

 

[dcana]

Hmm … I just came across this familiar passage from Revelation 21 on another web site: “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.” It seems Scripture is saying that the “first heaven” (which I take to mean heaven as it exists right now) will pass away and a “new heaven” will take its place. What do you all think?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I’ve read several accounts of near-death experiences (“NDE’s”) and find them interesting. I certainly believe that the people who claim to have had them are reporting “real” events - whether they actually “went to heaven” is another matter. I certainly think it is possible, even probable, for many of them, though it’s possible that something is going on with the brain that we don’t understand. Anyway, to get to my point. I wrote the Q&A forum with this question but got no response, so I’ll post it here and see what you guys think.

Since heaven is a purely spiritual place, and God is pure spirit, why do people who claim to have “gone to the other side” for a while report seeing trees, grass, flowers, people they’ve known walking around, etc, etc? How is that possible? In my mind anyway, “heaven” before and after the Resurrection of the Dead is quite different, though the essential element remains the same - namely that heaven is essentially a soul’s total union with God. Everything else is just “icing on the cake.” What they describe seems to me to be like heaven after the Last Day, i.e., on the “New Earth,” which will be a physical place. Prior to that, I understand heaven as more of a spiritual state of being. I mean, disembodied souls have no eyes, so how can they “see?” And if heaven, as it is now, is purely spiritual, what is there to see anyway? Though they might “see” in some way proper to souls, in a “spiritual way,” if you will, whatever that means.

Any thoughts?

Not exactly a “near death experience” (although I certainly believe people have them), I’ve mentioned ad infinitum that the night my own father died, he appeared in my room. He started with an apology, we argued and conversed, and at the end he disappeared with one almighty scream.

Now I could see him, but if I chose to I could look through him. I still remember being able to see an old bookcase behind him and through him. Yet he had human features, although his appearance seemed to coruscate in a bland, pale way for lack of a better word.

But for all intents and purposes he could see me, hear me, talk, and think. Yet his dead body was several kilometres away. It was undoubtedly him.

From personal experience then I’d have to be a dualist, in that I think the brain and the mind are separate, but bound together in this life. I suppose this might mean that if a person with dementia or a brain injury died for example, the cloying restrictions of their damaged brain would no longer have any effect, and they’d become of whole mind again.

That’s my experience, but it wasn’t a “near death” experience. He was dead - full stop. He even said during the proceedings when I asked, “What is this? A dream or something?” and he replied with a bemused look, “No, it’s not a dream. I died tonight.”

Not quite the same as a “near death” experience, but I do think the deceased can see, hear, think etc. just as much as we can. And the fact he could see me would seem to support the stories of those who claimed they could see doctors working on their bodies, family members weeping etc.

Normally we can’t see them, but in my father’s case, there seemed to have been an exception made for a couple of minutes.

Before judgement descended that is, and he gave the terrifying scream, while trying to ward something off. Whatever it was that came for him at the end and created so much terror, it seemed to be coming from my left, whereas most of the time he’d been looking directly over my head, or straight at me.

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

It is pretty evident that God enjoys fishing. Just look at all the people that Jesus hung out with while on Earth. You can also dig the fishing vibe at the many miracles that were performed, the feeding of the 10,000 etc. So in this regard we shouldn’t be too surprised that God is practicing a little, “Catch and Release”.

Here’s hoping you get the big’ol spiritual fish hook through your heart!

 

[Loboto-Me]

TightyWhitey, that was hillarious, and a great observation too and finally, a wonderful wish for someone.

 

[kesto4]

My theory is NDE’s are a purely neurological phenomenon. No one is flying out of their body to Heaven and back or hovering in the corner of the room. That is imagination just like a dream would be. Could be that in unusual situations when the body is traumatized, as in near-death, or heart/brain/etc fluctuations, that some brain chemicals kick in to protect the system from pain or from some other problem. The reason for grass, horses, people, etc, is this is the same sort of material you find in dreams. This is simply brain chemistry, nothing mystical, nothing spiritual. IMHO.

In my opinion, there is far too much evidence to merely dismiss it. There are thousands of them, and they are all so similar. There is no possible way all these people could have communicated with each other beforehand of telling their story. Why do these only happen when people have physically died or are near death, etc.? This is just one of God’s tools to let HIS people know that he is as real as The Bible we read everyday. I’m sure at this point in their popularity, there are some people making them up, but you can discern the truths easily enough.

For someone that is not a believer of Christ, nor knows nothing about it, having a NDE is impossible for them. This for me, is the line. How can someone dream about something they have ABSOLUTELY no knowledge about. Our subconscious is based on our conscious, not on something we don’t know about. Read the book, “Heaven Is For Real”, it’s a short read, you could even go to WalMart and read it in 2 hours if you don’t want to purchase it.

Do you believe in Our Lady’s appearances? If you do, how can you dismiss Christ’s?

 

[styrgwillidar]

Why do these only happen when people have physically died or are near death, etc.?

Well… because by definition NDE are ‘near-death’. As distinguished from out-of-body experiences which aren’t necessarily associated with death or near-death.

 

[GEddie]

In my opinion, there is far too much evidence to merely dismiss it. There are thousands of them, and they are all so similar. There is no possible way all these people could have communicated with each other beforehand of telling their story. Why do these only happen when people have physically died or are near death, etc.? This is just one of God’s tools to let HIS people know that he is as real as The Bible we read everyday. I’m sure at this point in their popularity, there are some people making them up, but you can discern the truths easily enough.

For someone that is not a believer of Christ, nor knows nothing about it, having a NDE is impossible for them. This for me, is the line. How can someone dream about something they have ABSOLUTELY no knowledge about. Our subconscious is based on our conscious, not on something we don’t know about. Read the book, “Heaven Is For Real”, it’s a short read, you could even go to WalMart and read it in 2 hours if you don’t want to purchase it.

Do you believe in Our Lady’s appearances? If you do, how can you dismiss Christ’s?

Well, for one thing, Marian apparitions occur to people in full possession of their mind and body; sometimes to more than one person (ie, Fatima) or leaving a physical sign (Lourdes, Guadalupe). NDEs however occur to human beings in near-dead bodies (by definition) and so there is always the possibility that it all took place “inside their head.”

Also, NDE is by no means limited to Christians; as they are attested by atheists, as well as by Hindus in India. Indian NDEs have been studied for years.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Not exactly a “near death experience” (although I certainly believe people have them), I’ve mentioned ad infinitum that the night my own father died, he appeared in my room. He started with an apology, we argued and conversed, and at the end he disappeared with one almighty scream.

Now I could see him, but if I chose to I could look through him. I still remember being able to see an old bookcase behind him and through him. Yet he had human features, although his appearance seemed to coruscate in a bland, pale way for lack of a better word.

But for all intents and purposes he could see me, hear me, talk, and think. Yet his dead body was several kilometres away. It was undoubtedly him.

From personal experience then I’d have to be a dualist, in that I think the brain and the mind are separate, but bound together in this life. I suppose this might mean that if a person with dementia or a brain injury died for example, the cloying restrictions of their damaged brain would no longer have any effect, and they’d become of whole mind again.

That’s my experience, but it wasn’t a “near death” experience. He was dead - full stop. He even said during the proceedings when I asked, “What is this? A dream or something?” and he replied with a bemused look, “No, it’s not a dream. I died tonight.”

Not quite the same as a “near death” experience, but I do think the deceased can see, hear, think etc. just as much as we can. And the fact he could see me would seem to support the stories of those who claimed they could see doctors working on their bodies, family members weeping etc.

Normally we can’t see them, but in my father’s case, there seemed to have been an exception made for a couple of minutes.

Before judgement descended that is, and he gave the terrifying scream, while trying to ward something off. Whatever it was that came for him at the end and created so much terror, it seemed to be coming from my left, whereas most of the time he’d been looking directly over my head, or straight at me.

Off topic a bit, but I just wanted to make a comment on the judgement after death. During the above proceedings, there were several things my father said about himself which were completely out of character in the man as I knew him.

Some of these comments were -

“I can’t believe how cruel and stupid I’ve been!”

“I’ve been an absolute mongrel to you”.

“There’s no hope for me. All I was expected to do was look after my own family, and I didn’t even do that!”

“What was I trying to prove!?”

“It’s too late for me…”

“I’ve completely destroyed your confidence! … I did it deliberately … I was jealous. I didn’t have the same opportunities you did…”

In other words, within a couple of minutes of death, he was in a position where he was judging himself. As I knew him, there was no way he’d have admitted to these things in his normal daily life. He’d have blamed us for all his faults and failings.

Hence somehow we see ourselves in the light of God’s love, and we are unable to avoid the truth about ourselves. We even admit we were wrong, no matter who we are.

Or as Christ said, (Matthew 12:37); NIV - “For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

 

[Blenderx]

Off topic a bit, but I just wanted to make a comment on the judgement after death. During the above proceedings, there were several things my father said about himself which were completely out of character in the man as I knew him.

Some of these comments were -

“I can’t believe how cruel and stupid I’ve been!”

“I’ve been an absolute mongrel to you”.

“There’s no hope for me. All I was expected to do was look after my own family, and I didn’t even do that!”

“What was I trying to prove!?”

“It’s too late for me…”

“I’ve completely destroyed your confidence! … I did it deliberately … I was jealous. I didn’t have the same opportunities you did…”

In other words, within a couple of minutes of death, he was in a position where he was judging himself. As I knew him, there was no way he’d have admitted to these things in his normal daily life. He’d have blamed us for all his faults and failings.

Hence somehow we see ourselves in the light of God’s love, and we are unable to avoid the truth about ourselves. We even admit we were wrong, no matter who we are.

Or as Christ said, (Matthew 12:37); NIV - “For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

This is very sad, but thank you for sharing.

Years ago, I saw a show about near death experiences. I’ve always remembered one particular story that made an impression on me: a man told how, in his NDE, he went through his entire life until that point in just an instant. He experienced all the harm he had done others, and he knew all his wrongs more clearly than he had ever known them. He repented and was a changed man after this experience.

I do believe that, occasionally, God will allow someone an extraordinary experience for some purpose. Much of the time, its probably just a firing of circuits in the amygdala and pre-frontal cortex, but sometimes, its something extraordinary he allows some to take back with them.