Necessary for Salvation

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I have seen this very often.
Mary and the saints, cooperating in the work of salvation.

But is she a Prerequisite for someone to be able to recieve Jesus Christ and Receive Salvation?
You don’t understand who Mary is. She is the Woman whose offspring will defeat the Serpent and his own offspring. She is the Heavenly Jerusalem. The Scriptures speak of Her and give Her a dignity inferior only to that of Christ, her son and her Lord.

If one ignores who she is, then that does not preclude them from salvation since it may fall under invincible ignorance, and anyone who is reborn through water and spirit in Christ becomes her son. But to willfully ignore her or treat her as something less than who she is according to the Scriptures is against God’s own will. And as you can assume, going against God’s will is not the best way to reach heaven.
 
But does the Catholic Church teach that we NEED Mary to have Salvation, to have Access to the Father?
*God involved Mary in such *-- the very body of Jesus --his growing up --the very existence of the blood of Christ shed on the cross – involved Mary.

Now if one means – if someone never heard of Mary – could they enter into salvation?? yes.
 
I have seen this very often.
Mary and the saints, cooperating in the work of salvation.

But is she a Prerequisite for someone to be able to recieve Jesus Christ and Receive Salvation?
No…but she can point the way to her Son.

But salvation is not a one time event, which I am assuming is what your view of salvation is. Salvation is a lifelong process, not a one time event.

The question is…can you get to your final salvation by yourself?

Here is a short writing from Pope JPII on Mary;s role…ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2bvm49.htm
 
Jesus Christ alone

Now are others involved in my salvation? Sure. Is and was Mary involved? Yes. And I could not avoid her material care…any more than I could avoid my earthly mothers care.

But can one say “Jesus alone is the way that leads to eternal life”?

Indeed

Quote

“Happy are you who believe!” (cf. 1 Pet 2:7). Let us turn to Jesus! He alone is the way that leads to eternal happiness, the truth who satisfies the deepest longings of every heart, and the life who brings ever new joy and hope, to us and to our world. Amen."

~ Pope Benedict XVI Homily Yankee Stadium April 2008
 
Jesus is the only one who can forgive sins so there for he is salvation. Mary is someone who has the power to give the grace of redemption out though she is perfect and sinless
 
Jesus is the only one who can forgive sins so there for he is salvation. Mary is someone who has the power to give the grace of redemption out though she is perfect and sinless
It is obviously a fact that There is no salvation by anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved. However, this does not deny or undermine in any way the fact that by God’s own will the Blessed Virgin is necessary for salvation. Necessary does not equal sufficient.
 
There’s been a lot of good explanations of Mary’s role here. I just wanted to add one thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet. 1 Cor 12:20-22 says, “As it is there are many parts but one body. The eye cannot say to the foot ‘I have no need of you’, nor again the head to the feet, ’ I have no need of you.’ On the contrary, the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable.”

According to this, all the members of the body of Christ need each other, but in a qualitatively different sense then we need Christ obviously. If there were no Christ, there’d be no body of Christ for us to be a member of. But once we’re incorporated into Christ, then we need each other. And the body of Christ comprises the saints on earth and in heaven. We’re all joined to each other. That would include Mary as well.

Catholics firmly believe that “there is no salvation in any one else, for there is no other name under heaven by which men are to be saved.” than Christ’s (Acts 4:12) We are not saved by Mary’s name of Joseph’s or any saint. But that doesn’t mean we don’t need them at all, we do, just not in the same way we need Him. Kind of like when I was a kid, I needed my Dad in a different way than I needed my mom and her in a different way than I needed my siblings. (Though I wouldn’t have admitted I needed them back then;))

BTW if you want to read what the Church says about Mary, here are the paragraphs in the Catechism. Paragraphs 964-972. Those are about the place of Mary in the life of the Christian. There’s so many more, but those deal directly with your question I think, and you can get an authoritative answer better than I can give. Also pope John Paul wrote an encyclical called Mother of the redeemer, I forget the Latin name:D Might want to check that out too.

Hope that helped a little!
 
Jesus Christ alone

Now are others involved in my salvation? Sure. Is and was Mary involved? Yes. And I could not avoid her material care…any more than I could avoid my earthly mothers care.

But can one say “Jesus alone is the way that leads to eternal life”?

Indeed

Quote

“Happy are you who believe!” (cf. 1 Pet 2:7). Let us turn to Jesus! He alone is the way that leads to eternal happiness, the truth who satisfies the deepest longings of every heart, and the life who brings ever new joy and hope, to us and to our world. Amen."

~ Pope Benedict XVI Homily Yankee Stadium April 2008/COL
 
  1. No. The only way Mary is needed for the salvation of individuals is long past; it was her saying, “Behold the handmaid of the Lord, let it be done to me according to thy word”, which was her consent to the Incarnation, through which God Incarnate, being Crucified, we are redeemed.
However, Mary is a sure way to Christ, as the mother points to the son, and the Son to his Mother and his Father; all honor given to Mary, redounds and reposes in Christ.
  1. This is tricky and should be in another thread, because it depends so much from situation to situation, as the interpretation of the dogmata vary widely. My interpretation: one must believe on Christ as Lord and Savior, and intend to be baptized as soon as possible, if not already baptized in to the Trinity. This is what is required for the first justification, the bare-minimum for salvation (i.e. being configured to God instead of Satan, being transformed by God’s grace from a God-loather to a God-lover, from a rebel to a faithful son, like the Prodigal Son).
On matters of salvation, I adhere to sola gratia, solus Christus, and sola fide, and Bañezian-Thomism, which is the Catholic equivalent of Calvinism, and is quite close to the Reformed understanding, with some differences. However, the majority of differences are very intricate, and require an in-depth knowledge of soteriology in order to be able to comprehend that they are even differences (imputation v. infusion, the relation of prevenient, sufficient, and efficacious grace, the division of God’s will in to antecedent and consequent, for example): to the average lay Christian, they would appear to be very traditional Reformed, with an emphasis on baptismal regeneration. The above are all considered very conservative or traditionalist views by the Church.

I believe that only those who hear the Gospel can be saved, or, through a mysterious working, those who had no possible opportunity to hear the Gospel, can be saved. Those who heard and rejected, who did not convert, or who did not hear the gospel out of laziness or sloth, even though they would have had the chance if they tried (e.g. the entire theory of the “Anonymous Christian” of Rahner, which I categorically reject), are damned. This restricts “not capable of hearing the gospel” to tribesmen in the jungle, and some people living under dictatorial atheistic or Islamic regimes.

Such things as sacraments and works of mercy do not avail for basic justification: they are conduits of grace and tools for growing in holiness, or sanctification, which is not required for a bare-minimum “salvation as if by fire”.

Think of the example of St Dismas (the Good Thief): Christ promised him heaven, and all he did was believe on Christ (he likely intended to be baptized, as well). Baptism is normally necessary for salvation, but God is not bound by the sacraments he instituted. A man who believes on Jesus, and dies before he can be baptized, is justified by his faith, and saved, as long as he did not commit a mortal sin (or committed a mortal sin without experiencing perfect contrition/contrition of charity, nor received penance) between his justification through believing on Christ as Lord and Saviour, son of the living God, and his death.
 
In God’s plan, salvation came to men through Our Lady, since it is from her that the living God took flesh and the Savior was born. So yes, her intercession is required for salvation.
  • God asks specific things from each of us individually, and nothing He asks is impossible to do
    - no temptation is impossible to overcome, for where sin abounds grace shall abound all the more
  • weakness does not make it harder for us, for in fact in our weakness the strength of Christ is perfected
Just checking a couple of things. In the first comment do you mean “a woman who played the role of bearing Christ” or “It had to be Mary alone”? My hope is “it had to be a female human to impart humanity unto Christ” rather than “Without Mary specifically, salvation would not be possible” sort of way.

In the second highlighted area I presume you mean no temptation is impossible to overcome in a “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” sort of way. Not a “I have the power to overcome any temptation on my own in a Pelagian sort of way”.

If you would, please clarify.

Thanks
 
Just checking a couple of things. In the first comment do you mean “a woman who played the role of bearing Christ” or “It had to be Mary alone”? My hope is “it had to be a female human to impart humanity unto Christ” rather than “Without Mary specifically, salvation would not be possible” sort of way.

In the second highlighted area I presume you mean no temptation is impossible to overcome in a “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” sort of way. Not a “I have the power to overcome any temptation on my own in a Pelagian sort of way”.

If you would, please clarify.

Thanks
For sin, it better be the first: if it is the latter, it is considered rank heresy by the Catholic Church, which has repeatedly condemned Pelagianism and it’s Semi- variety: this doesn’t stop many “man in the pew”, theologically-illiterate Catholics (as well as Protestants) from being semi-Pelagians (“choose Jesus to be saved”) or full-out Pelagians (“be a nice person and you go to heaven”).

No temptation is theoretically impossible to overcome through actual grace, but every man, justified or not, no matter how sanctified he is, will fall repeatedly to temptation and in to sin. “Christian perfection” - sinlessness on this side of the New Jerusalem - is impossible, except for Mary and for Christ. Grace gives us strength to help resist temptation, and a way back to God after we have fallen.
 
Now are others involved in my salvation? Sure. Is and was Mary involved? Yes. And I could not avoid her material care…any more than I could avoid my earthly mothers care.

But can one say “Jesus alone is the way that leads to eternal life”?

Indeed

Quote

“Happy are you who believe!” (cf. 1 Pet 2:7). Let us turn to Jesus! He alone is the way that leads to eternal happiness, the truth who satisfies the deepest longings of every heart, and the life who brings ever new joy and hope, to us and to our world. Amen."

~ Pope Benedict XVI Homily Yankee Stadium April 2008
 
jpink1019,

The short version is that Jesus is the source of our salvation to the exclusion of everybody else (even His mother).

The full reality is that He doesn’t work in a vacuum but through the Church, whether it be the Church Militant (those of us still living on this earth) or the Church Triumphant (those who now reside in Heaven, including His mother).

Take a look at His call of St. Paul. Even though Jesus called Saul directly, He sent him to Ananias to be brought into the Church. Jesus worked through Ananias to bring Saul to salvation.
 
Just checking a couple of things. In the first comment do you mean “a woman who played the role of bearing Christ” or “It had to be Mary alone”? My hope is “it had to be a female human to impart humanity unto Christ” rather than “Without Mary specifically, salvation would not be possible” sort of way.

In the second highlighted area I presume you mean no temptation is impossible to overcome in a “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” sort of way. Not a “I have the power to overcome any temptation on my own in a Pelagian sort of way”.

If you would, please clarify.

Thanks
God Almighty chose Mary, and specifically Mary, above all other women. It’s not a female human, nor any woman who just played the role of bearing Christ. It is the unique soul and person of Mary who was chosen by God. Without her specifically, salvation would have not / would not have arrived to us. I use past / present because, concerning our souls, time is irrelevant and there is no such thing as past or future in the eyes of the eternal God.

As for the second reply, that’s quite the way I meant it, for alone we can only sin. However, many - include me - make the error of facing a very strong temptation and giving up by saying: I cannot overcome this because I am too weak, too great a sinner, etc. Wrong. In Christ, I can overcome every temptation, no matter if all hell teams up against me and no matter if I am the most wretched of all sinners.
 
Now are others involved in my salvation? Sure. Is and was Mary involved? Yes. And I could not avoid her material care…any more than I could avoid my earthly mothers care.

But can one say “Jesus alone is the way that leads to eternal life”?

Indeed

Quote

“Happy are you who believe!” (cf. 1 Pet 2:7). Let us turn to Jesus! He alone is the way that leads to eternal happiness, the truth who satisfies the deepest longings of every heart, and the life who brings ever new joy and hope, to us and to our world. Amen."

~ Pope Benedict XVI Homily Yankee Stadium April 2008
 
Let me try to help.
  1. Is Mary’s Intercession required for Salvation in the Catholic Church.
    (Meaning do we need anything from the Mother of God to recieve Salvation?)
  1. No, we do not require anything specifically from Mary for our salvation, other than her role in the birth of Jesus.
    → However, Mary does lead many people to her Son so her intercession is extremely valuable.
  1. According to the teaching of the Church and from catholics yourselves, what is required for Salvation?
Okay, here it is in a nut shell. To go to heaven, you need to die in the state of grace.
The normal way to get into the state of grace is through baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Baptism and thus grace is freely given to those who believe in the saving power of Jesus Christ. It is a covenant relationship. Jesus forgives all former sins and gives us a new life and the grace to lead it as Christians and we agree to do his will, which is to love God and love our neighbor as ourselves. We remain in this state of grace as long as we do that, but if we turn our backs on God or neighbor through sin, then we fall from grace and will be condemned to Hell.

Except God in his infinite mercy, allows us to reconcile to Him sacrament-ally, by contritely confessing our sins to a priest and doing the required penance in reparation for our sins. He will forgive us as often as we ask as long as we live. The sacrament is not only healing, it gives us the graces to help avoid future sin. Through the graces of the sacraments, we become increasingly holy and some achieve a state where they no longer have the tendency to sin. These will go directly to heaven upon death. Those that die in the state of grace but still have the tendency to sin, will enter heaven, but only after being purged of the tendency to sin in Purgatory. Those that die unrepentant and outside the state of grace, will be condemned to Hell.

Now what if you were never baptized, can you get to heaven? Yes, but only under extreme conditions.
  1. baptism of blood. If you die for the faith without being baptized, you can get to heaven
  2. baptism of desire. If your desire to be baptized but are physically restrained from completing it (like St, Dismas, the good thief crucified with Jesus), you can get to heaven.
  3. invincible ignorance: If you never heard of Jesus but lived according to his principles through the natural law, you can get to heaven. (picture someone born in America before Columbus)
Can a Non- Catholic get to heaven? Yes, as above and also under the following conditions:
  1. they are validly baptized (the Catholic Church recognizes many Protestant baptisms as valid, if they are done with water in the name of the Father, son and Holy Spirit )
and
  1. either, they never sin after baptism or that if they do sin, the exhibit perfect contrition, which is to say that they are fully sorry for their sins, not because of a threat of punishment but because it offends God, who they should love above all things.
So this is what the Church has handed down from Jesus and the Apostles. As you can see, it is not necessary to have Mary’s intercession, but it surely helps. It also helps to be Catholic because without that, you are working without the graces available through the sacraments, particularly the Eucharist and Confession and that is truly a great disadvantage in the quest for holiness.
I have tried asking this question before, but it was not made clear.
I hope i have succeeded in making this clear for you.
 
Now what if you were never baptized, can you get to heaven? Yes, but only under extreme conditions.
  1. invincible ignorance: If you never heard of Jesus but lived according to his principles through the natural law, you can get to heaven. (picture someone born in America before Columbus)
My question now is specifically towards this part of your answer. It is not related to the original topic of the thread but it is important to address.

I did not know that ignorance was a reason people might get to heaven. Isn’t this why we as christians are told to go preach the gospel because there are many yet who haven’t heard the name of Jesus?
 
Departed from topic and abandoned for over a month. Closed.
 
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