Need a civil license for marriage?

[Crumpy]

Someone sent me a protestant minister’s rather lengthy argument for opposing obtaining a civil marriage license. He rants that the state is controlling the to-be-married couple, he claims the state is a party to the marriage, and on-and-on. His agenda seems to be to derail same-sex marriage.

He claims that civil licenses were not needed in the colonies and early U.S. He says licenses came about when there were legal restrictions on inter-racial marriages. He further claims that marriages simply witnessed and recorded in family bibles have been upheld in many courts.

He took a non-lawyer point of view, and didn’t comment on common-law marriages – presumably those marriages where a couple simply moves in together.

I can’t think of too many compelling reasons why a couple should need a civil license. Can’t think of any reasons at all, actually. But, do marriages without licenses simply lose boundaries?

When is something a one-night-stand or an affair, etc. and when does marriage begin? Even the minister invokes some formality of witnesses and a signed document.

 

[Timidity]

(1) The state has a legitimate need to regulate marriage. After all we don’t want brothers marrying sisters, do we? Nor do we want 38 year old men marrying 8 year old girls. Etc, etc…

(2) The authority of the state comes from God. It is a moral imperative to obey the state, unless the state demands something makes it a moral imperative to disobey.

(3) The is no moral imperative that prevents us for paying $20 to the county clerk to get a marriage license.

 

[Aesq]

Crumpy:

He further claims that marriages simply witnessed and recorded in family bibles have been upheld in many courts.

He took a non-lawyer point of view, and didn’t comment on common-law marriages – presumably those marriages where a couple simply moves in together.

I can’t think of too many compelling reasons why a couple should need a civil license. Can’t think of any reasons at all, actually. But, do marriages without licenses simply lose boundaries?

There are many reasons for a civil marriage license. Just to name a few:

1. If you want inheritance rights from your spouse absent a will

1. If you want tax benefits of income tax related issues

1. If you want gift tax benefits of unlimited gifting to a spouse

1. If you want parentage presumptions under the law as a result of the civil status

These are just a few.

Courts do not recognize marriages if a license is required in the jurisdiction unless a license was acquired. You can not ignore common law marriage when discussing this as common law marriage is not two people simply living together they must also hold themselves out as husband and wife. Common law marriage does exactly what he wants. You get married without a license and then live together and hold yourself out as husband and wife. In jurisdictions which have common law marriage you would be married once you met the requirements of living together, for whatever period is required by the jurisdiction, and held yourselves out as husband and wife.

The real issue is, do you want the civil benefits of the State recognizing the marriage. You can’t have it both ways. If you want the civil benefits you have to follow the civil rules.

 

[Angainor]

Crumpy:

Need a civil license for marriage?

If you ever find youself living in a state that opens marriage up to same sex couples, then you live in a state that does not give out marriage licenses. They may *call *them marriage licenses, but they ain’t.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

It’s about money.

If one truly regarded marriage as a sacrament, registering the marriage with civil authorities is all about money.

I used to prepare taxes for people, and the civil state of their marriage makes all the difference. One of the things people lie about more than anything is their living arrangements; wanting to be considered married for tax purposes or not. The other thing is about who supports what children, and where the children live.

All you have to do to be unmarried for tax purposes is tell the tax preparer you have not lived with your spouse at any time between July 1 and Dec 31 of the tax year. Some people don’t figure that out until they “try out” a couple tax preparers to see who’s going to score them the highest numbers.

From all the screwy situations I’ve dealt with I’m convinced there is no meaning to civil marriages. Personally I no longer care if gay marriages are adopted; people can call themselves what they want. What matters sacramentally is their status before the Church. If some gay couple down the block wants to say they are married, more power to them. I don’t approve, but they don’t need my approval. Unless, of course, it is about money in which case it is my business as a taxpayer.

Oh yeah, it also matters in adoption cases.

The gay marriage lobby has one thing right; marriage (at least civil marriage) is meaningless now from a sacramental standpoint. The complexities are endless.

The only solution is if the government itself quit giving different treatment to married couples as it does to individuals cohabitating. This has already happened for most intents and purposes. They are making corporations give health benefits to gay partners. The battle is lost from the worldly point of view.

On the other hand, we honor our marriage certificate, so whether it is civil or sacramental, it means something to us. I do not feel our relationship is threatened by the statistical chances that other people’s marriages are likely to stay intact.

Alan