Need a little help here

[Idranoel]

My wife (36) and I (38) have three children and have not used artificial contraception since we had NFP training after our first child (6 years ago). Our youngest is 18 months. They are all wonderfuly, beautiful children and I’d like more. My wife, however, is just not ready to be pregnant again. She’s open to having more children, but not yet and not sure when (she realizes the clock is ticking).

So here’s the question. Because we miss the physical part of our relationship so much during the times we are to avoid intercourse according to NFP, we would like to engage in non-procreative (or less likely to be procreative) sexual activity. If we conceive, wonderful - an unplanned but thrilling blessing (I’d be jumping for joy), but we’re just not trying to conceive right now. I feel like I’m setting myself up to be blasted here but is our engaging in sexual activity that is unlikely to be procreative but certainly wonderfully enjoyable to both of us and very supportive of our relationship sinful?

Thank you for any advise and please be NICE!

Thank you.

 

[Edward_H]

No.

Find a non physical means to show your love…your real love (I.e., the work you’re willing to do inside of you…for the temporal or supernatural good of your spouse).

Take walks…play card games, visit the sick, plan a vacation, read to each other, say the Rosary, offer up your delayed pleasure for the souls of all aborting mothers, volunteer…love in another way even if it’s not pleasurable to you.

The self mastery and sacrifice can be given supernatural value…if it’s done cheerfully, willingly…

Good luck!

 

[1ke]

but is our engaging in sexual activity that is unlikely to be procreative but certainly wonderfully enjoyable to both of us and very supportive of our relationship sinful?

If by “sexual activity unlikely to be procreative” you mean stimulation to climax as a replacement for intercourse: Yes, grave matter and a misuse of your God-given sexuality.

If by “sexual activity…” you mean hugs, kisses, backrubs, or other intimacy that does not stimulate the genitals to climax: No, not sinful.

 

[eyesopening]

My wife (36) and I (38) have three children and have not used artificial contraception since we had NFP training after our first child (6 years ago). Our youngest is 18 months. They are all wonderfuly, beautiful children and I’d like more. My wife, however, is just not ready to be pregnant again. She’s open to having more children, but not yet and not sure when (she realizes the clock is ticking).

So here’s the question. Because we miss the physical part of our relationship so much during the times we are to avoid intercourse according to NFP, we would like to engage in non-procreative (or less likely to be procreative) sexual activity. If we conceive, wonderful - an unplanned but thrilling blessing (I’d be jumping for joy), but we’re just not trying to conceive right now. I feel like I’m setting myself up to be blasted here but is our engaging in sexual activity that is unlikely to be procreative but certainly wonderfully enjoyable to both of us and very supportive of our relationship sinful?

Thank you for any advise and please be NICE!

Thank you.

If you are talking about using artificial birth control methods please don’t. This is gravely immoral even for a married couple.

I must agree with the previous poster. Find another way to show your love. Why don’t the two of you find a hobby you enjoy together. Or get mountain bikes and go off trail riding together! There are wonderful ways to express your love without being sexual. (Although I’m with you in that I LOOOOVE making love to my wife.) Be grateful that you have such a great sex life. Many couples in America struggle.

 

[Beryllos]

Idranoel, there seems to be some confusion about the meaning of your original post. Could you clarify what you mean by “non-procreative (or less likely to be procreative) sexual activity”? I think the answer to your question depends on what method or circumstance causes it to be non- or less-procreative.

 

[hsmomforlife]

No.

Find a non physical means to show your love…your real love (I.e., the work you’re willing to do inside of you…for the temporal or supernatural good of your spouse).

Take walks…play card games, visit the sick, plan a vacation, read to each other, say the Rosary, offer up your delayed pleasure for the souls of all aborting mothers, volunteer…love in another way even if it’s not pleasurable to you.

The self mastery and sacrifice can be given supernatural value…if it’s done cheerfully, willingly…

Good luck!

Posts like this make me wish that there were a ‘thumbs up’ option on CAF where we didn’t have to log in and type!

 

[Blue_Horizon]

… is our engaging in sexual activity that is unlikely to be procreative but certainly wonderfully enjoyable to both of us and very supportive of our relationship sinful?

Thank you for any advise and please be NICE!

Thank you.

Hello Idranoel. As you have intuited the answer unfortunately is that it would be “sinful”.
We could have a good chat about what exactly “sinful” means in this context but I am assuming that word is not problematic for you.

However…it depends exactly what sort of action you are hinting at. It all hinges on your phrase “unlikely to be procreative” which you also couple with “If we conceive, wonderful - an unplanned but thrilling blessing…”

I sense a little tug-of-war here or at least an unacknowledged ambiguity between your wife and yourself over what it is you would like to do in your NFP fertile periods.

So a few clarificatory questions seem in order:
(1) Re "Because we miss the physical part of our relationship so much during these times… " is this really the Mrs as well, or just you?
(2) Re “we would like to engage in (less likely to be procreative) sexual activity” how can this be the Mrs? You just said she doesn’t want kids at the moment. This suggests its really you who wants the “less likely sex” while your other half actually wants “not at all likely” sex. Would you agree?
(3) You really need to be a little more specific re the nature of the sexual activity so we can guage the true procreative potential likely involved.

Personally I would say your attitude is very Catholic in so far as you are leaving your acts open to the possibility of conception. However by the “possibility of conception” Catholic teaching usually means “this goes with that at the required time” and withdrawal would therefore be considered inherently thwarting of the procreative potential of the act.

Your wife’s attitude (not wanting to be pregnant at the moment) is also of course perfectly Catholic. Catholics are only required to have at least one child as far as I know to fulfill the procreative purpose of of marriage. This then means that marital acts (engaged in for the joy/bonding of the “unitive purpose”) must still respect their inherent procreative “intent” even if in practice pregnancy is not possible (eg during infertile period).

Some argue there are other “natural” methods that do not thwart the inherent procreative “intent” of genital activity:
(1) Extended foreplay over a period of days (without male orgasm) leading up to male orgasm in the infertile phase. I believe this is not Catholic and cannot be justified as true “foreplay”. Apart from that it sounds painful (at least for the male).
(2) Actual sex without male orgasm during or after. This may be acceptable but I am not sure. Others may like to comment on this. Personally I cannot see the difference between this and withdrawal as the intent is exactly the same (but without the loss of semen). I suspect it is really just a variant on (1) above. It doesn’t sound very “unitive”/fun either .

This is probably more than you wanted .
Hope it helps further your working through the issues and coming to a clearer decision re your concerns.

 

[eyesopening]

(2) Actual sex without male orgasm during or after. This may be acceptable but I am not sure. Others may like to comment on this. Personally I cannot see the difference between this and withdrawal as the intent is exactly the same (but without the loss of semen). I suspect it is really just a variant on (1) above. It doesn’t sound very “unitive”/fun either .

Actually I believe that the intentional and abrupt end to intercourse just before male orgasm would still be tantamount to withdrawal and therefore sinful. Inability to orgasm on the part of the male for various reasons (fatigue/disfunction) would of course not be sinful.