Need advice from Catholics of the Ruthenian Byzantine tradition!

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*liturgy not mass

 

[babochka]

Yea ik don’t believe everything online but this is to prove that I’m not just making up stuff

I think “liturgical language” would be a better way to put it. Latin is the liturgical language of the Latin Rite, but is also the legal language of the Church and all liturgical translations are translated from the Latin. Church Slavonic doesn’t quite have that same status.

I don’t know what the source of this is, but it also lists the founder of the Church as Prince Volodymyr the Great. Jesus Christ is the founder of the Ukrainian Catholic Church, just as he is the founder.

You don’t say what the source of this information is, but they seem a bit imprecise.

I never thought you were making it up, just misinformed.

Also I’ve heard some Eastern Churches use koine greek in the mass, not sure about the legitimacy of this claim but still

Yes, the Greek Orthodox church uses Koine Greek. In the U.S., it is often in a combination and Greek and English.

 

[AndrewAxland]

I’m pretty sure that the UGCC abandoned Church Slavonic entirely in the early 1990s. It’s not used for any purpose anymore. The liturgy is celebrated in the vernacular, Ukrainian or English, or whatever local language applies.

The official language of record is Latin, as it is for all of the particular churches.

 

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This is from the ruthenian eparchy of passiacs website, with his His Grace Kurt Burnette as the current bishop

 

[babochka]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

This is from the ruthenian eparchy of passiacs website, with his His Grace Kurt Burnette as the current bishop

I’m not sure how this contradicts anything I’ve said.

Church Slavonic is a liturgical language. When the current Ruthenian translation was done (which is not without its problems and controversy), both Slavonic and Greek texts were used.

Latin is an official language, in that legal documents, encyclicals, etc. are issued in Latin. This is not the case for Church Slavonic. It has no use in the Church outside of its liturgical use. The Ukrainian Catechism was first issues in Ukrainian, not Church Slavonic. If the Ukrainian Patriarch/Major Archbishop issues a letter to all Ukrainian Catholics, it is not issued in Church Slavonic. Conversely, the Catechism of the Catholic Church was issued in Latin. Encyclicals are issued in Latin.

Regardless, the Ukrainian Catholic Church does not currently use Church Slavonic in its liturgy on a regular basis, so your advice to seek out a Ukrainian Catholic Church over a Ruthenian Church for this reason makes no sense.

 

[dochawk]

she think’s it’s irreverent that EC’s don’t genuflect at all during the Liturgy,

???

Genuflecting and all other forms of kneeling as reverence, rather than penitence, are a western innovation, a concession to modernism.

Easterns don’t '“fail to genuflect”, but rather keep the traditional posture of standing a the position of respect.

In the East, and originally in the west, kneeling was the position of penitence, and standing was the position of respect (thus the standing for most of the liturgy).

The west adopted kneeling as respectful as a concession to modernity, when people knelt and genuflected before earthly kings in the middle ages. The reasoned that if it was due earthly kings, it was due the King of Kings.

Kneeling on sunday is in fact forbidden by the canon of Nicea . . .

And while we’re digging up such bones . . . the “Low Mass” came about as a liturgical abuse. It was a way for monasteries to knock out more Masses in a day, and thus collect more stipends.

This abuse became codified as the norm at Trent.

Oh, and latin was not universal in the West before Trent, either . . .

hawk

 

[dochawk]

The icon screen doesn’t function to “separate” the laity and the clergy. I

The iconostasis also serves as the boundary between Heaven and Earth.

After Pascha, the doors stay open to show the destruction of the barriers by the Resurrection.

That last part is what the orientals beleive, not them

That is a longstanding misconception that led to schism . . .

When I said that “latin mass feel” I meant the fact that they use the official church language and that they aren’t using vernacular.

The use of the vernacular as the norm dates way back in the East . . . to the first century.

Rome came along alter, adopting the vernacular in the third to fourth century, rather than the traditional liturgical language. A millennium and a half later, though . . .

and all liturgical translations are translated from the Latin. Church Slavonic doesn’t quite have that same status.

No!!!

Slavic churches translate from older liturgy in Church Slavonic. The revision of the US Ruthenian liturgy a few years ago was primarily from old Church Slavonic, although they looked to the greek used by SS C&M, too. And oddly chose the greek “Theotokos” rather than the slavonic form . . .

The Greco-Italo-Albanians use some greek. One of the two US parishes is local, but part of our formerly Ruthenian eparchy. They mostly use our new books (used to use our old ones), but with bits of greek (notably all the Kyrie Eleison . . , but also some verses alternate between greek & english). The Melkites tend to do one each in English, Aribic, and Greek.

At one of the councils, the Melkite Patriarch made waves by refusing to use latin . .

Latin is an official language, in that legal documents, encyclicals, etc. are issued in Latin. This is not the case for Church Slavonic. It has no use in the Church outside of its liturgical use.

When SS C&M invented church slavonic, its very purpose was to be intelligible to the various slavonic tongues.

hawk

 

[ProudPapa1988]

mostly use our new books (used to use our old ones), but with bits of greek (notably all the Kyrie Eleison . . , but also some verses alternate between greek & english).

Thank you everyone for your insightful replies. I will share this thread with her so she can read all of your answers. There was a wealth of information in here that I haven’t heard yet myself, so this has been a wonderful experience all around. Thanks very much!