Need advice: I'd like to bring my Grandson into the Catholic Church

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Starrsmother

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Due to length–this is Part 1 of my 2 part post–please bear with me:

I have five grown kids–none Catholic. It’s my own fault and I accept my responsibility totally and whatever punishment God ultimately dreams up for me, It is what it is— I don’t get a do-over though. I fell away from the church for over 30 years. Oddly, I did have all my kids baptized in the church, and my oldest girl was even Confirmed. My first 2 kids made their first Communion–the last 3 didn’t get that far. My husband was a protestant who converted when we married, He’s not a particularly religious person but is a good man and a fine husband and father, but religion was always up to me. When I fell away, he happily did too. I grew up in the late 60’s, was raised Catholic–went to parochial school and the whole bit. I reached a time in my life when I began to question everything I’d been taught. As I questioned I finally fell away, like many of my generation, and I decided that I should let my children decide what they believed when they were old enough to decide, rather than cram something down their necks which is what I firmly believed had been done to me. It sounded good at the time. What I didn’t consider was that with no instruction about God or religion, I was still deciding for them–just as if I had “crammed something down their necks”. You can’t decide to turn toward or away from something you know nothing about one way or the other Thus, my kids grew up to be basically nice, good kids, with values and work ethics–but no religion. My oldest daughter has become a practicing Christian as an adult but not a Catholic. The other kids consider themselves “spiritual” (whatever that is) but don’t attend any church.Two plus years ago, after deep investigation, reading. search and prayer, I returned to my Catholic faith, convinced at long last that it is the one true faith that I will practice faithfully until I die. My husband followed me back. We’ve been together for over 40 years and that’s just how he is. He’s not what I’d call a true Catholic, but he thinks he is and so I just don’t bother to correct him–at least for the moment–as I have bigger fish to fry at the moment because of the kids. All my kids have always known that I was raised Catholic and are also well aware that I am now a fervently practicing Catholic again–though I think several of them think I’ve lost my mind by doing so. They feel that everything was just fine and that I raised them just fine the way it was–without the whole religion thing. They sort of look at it like folks do when they hear that someone “gets religion” in prison. They think that “Mom must be getting old” and has suddenly been “bitten by the religion bug” which is a little weird to them but feel that it’s my “thing” so whatever. They have never said this to me–but I suspect that’s what they think.

My middle son (who is 37 years old now and one of the baptized-but-that’s-it kids) and my husband and I are living together and will most likely be doing so for quite awhile in the future. My son has an 8 year old little boy that he has custody of. He and the mother were never married and have long since separated. She married, lives in another state and sees my grandson on court appointed visits only when he flies to see her. Obviously, since we live together, I have taken over a quasi-maternal role with my grandson on a day to day basis–though I’m always careful not to overstep my son’s role as the daddy. My son is definitely agnostic–infact, what it boils down to is that while he’s a good person, religion just has no place in his life at all. He considers himself an intellectual and thinks of religion in general as a lot of superstitious hogwash. HOWEVER (and here’s my problem), I would like to involve my grandson in the Catholic church, have him baptized and let him take classes. I am willing to take on the responsibility of raising him with knowledge of the Catholic faith, take him to RCIA and mass with us and so on–basically do for my grandson what I did not do but should have for my kids, including his own father… So here’s the reason for my post (and you probably were beginning to wonder when I’d get around to that, huh?):
 
Part 2 of my Question:
Firstly, I have been praying on this and finally decided that this weekend I’m going to bite the bullet and set down and have “the talk” with my son, tell him that I feel I cheated him and ask him if I can take my grandson to RCIA and church with me. I’d appreciate anyone’s prayers for me on this, as I feel that I’ve only got a 50-50 chance at best. I expect some resistance. Of all the faiths out there, I know for sure that my son feels that the Catholic church is the most restrictive–with many “strange” rules regarding contraception, extra-marital sex, homophobia, and. of course, he has heard of the whole pedophile priest scandals to boot. He sees Catholicism as rule intensive, and thinks the whole idea of obeying the pope to be a crock–you get the picture–he has the typical, modern, secular protestant attitude. Conversely, he DOES very much love and respect me–and I know he’ll listen to what I say–he just may tell me no is all. But I’ve decided not to put it off any longer and to plunge in and take the chance–cause it isn’t going to get any easier if I wait. So prayer from any of you would be appreciated–I’m going to need all of it that I can get this weekend.

Secondly, if any of you have any brilliant suggestions on how to best approach a 37 year old man with a proposition like this, I’d appreciate advice. Telling him that I worry about him or my grandson going to hell is not going to work in any way and would be an immediate 100% turn-off, I am nearly sure. He will roll his eyes and think I’ve lost my mind. So, I’m trying to come up with a “back door” approach, if you will–a good reason for him to think it might be a smart idea for his boy to be exposed to religion that will make sense to a young, modern secular man. Obviously, I am hoping that if I can get his permission, I can at least re-route my grandson and hopefully bring my son around eventually too, as he loves his boy deeply and I know he would want to be around for his first communion etc. Even St. Monica never managed to paint herself into a corner and be faced with such a a helluva mess as this one which I created for myself, I fear. Still, I have faith that just maybe Jesus and Mary see my true contrition and might deign to help me after 2 years of my prayer on this. Maybe–maybe not–I just don’t know. ANYWAY,have any of you ever boxed yourself into a corner even slightly like this or known anyone who has (probably not–nobody could be as stupid as I have been in this area), If you have any experience along these lines–or just have some inspired advice on how you would approach a Dad to get his permission I’d sure appreciate any suggestions—along with any prayer you can spare. This is D-Day weekend for me on this I’ve decided. Frankly, I’m scared to death that if I mess it up, my son will hear me out and simply say no–and that will be that. Sorry this is so long–I didn’t know how to say it in a shorter version.:signofcross:
 
It is God who calls us. You can be an inspiration to people, God uses many people to bring others into the Church through friendships and marriage or just plain good character and example. Many of us are fortunate to be born into the faith with faithful parents and good Godparents.

The problem you have with your son resisting you taking his grandson to Church might be that he is afraid that a new set of moral standards and religious beliefs might lead to his son rejecting him or that he might become an outsider.

Without knowing the temperament of your son, my best guess would be not to overdo it. If your grandson is fond of you and you set a good example and leave “stuff lying around” God will take up the slack.

Invite your godson to Church and eye other kids in the parish for potential friendships or play dates. At the end of the day, if the 8yo is interested and not feeling pressured, that might be the deciding factor.
 
There is one other way.

Appeal to your son’s intellectual side. Offer to place your grandson in Catholic School for a better education and learning environment.

If you have concerns about cost talk to the priest, sometimes there are people out there or groups willing to sponsor kids and foot the bill, By talking to the priest he might bend over backwards on a mission to save a soul.
 
By the way, my grandson has never even been baptized–which is testimony to my son’s disinterest in religion as a whole–but another reason I feel so desperately compelled to get pro-active pretty quickly. I mean, I have a grandchild running around who is over 8 years old and is UNBAPTIZED— and of course, it absolutely TERRIFIES ME! Even at my most “pagan” I was never quite brave enough not to have my 5 kids baptized!!!:banghead:
 
By the way, my grandson has never even been baptized–which is testimony to my son’s disinterest in religion as a whole–but another reason I feel so desperately compelled to get pro-active pretty quickly. I mean, I have a grandchild running around who is over 8 years old and is UNBAPTIZED— and of course, it absolutely TERRIFIES ME! Even at my most “pagan” I was never quite brave enough not to have my 5 kids baptized!!!:banghead:
I disagree with something you wrote. You did not create a hell of a mess. Despite all the misguided notions you held while on your own journey, you have come back to the Church. All your children were baptized and can now see your example. You are not responsible for your grown children nor your grandson. Just do the best you can do.
 
At 8, your grandson is considered an adult for the sacraments of initiation. Perhaps I missed it in your OP, but I don’t see any mention of his interest in the sacraments. Has he expressed a desire to be baptized?

As an RCIA director I would be looking first at the person to be initiated, then because of his age I would want to see support from the parent. Grandma’s interest in the process would be the third level.

I have to commend you for involving your son in this decision. I have been approached by other grandparents in your situation about baptizing their older grandchildren. In one case when I asked what the parents thought about the idea I was told “they have no idea I’m doing this. Perhaps you could call them and tell them about it.”
 
I disagree with something you wrote. You did not create a hell of a mess. Despite all the misguided notions you held while on your own journey, you have come back to the Church. All your children were baptized and can now see your example. You are not responsible for your grown children nor your grandson. Just do the best you can do.
I agree with this. I think you need to forgive yourself for your perceived “failure” in fostering religion. Like everyone else you did the best you could and now you can see what happens with your grandson. Either way, you’ll know you tried.
Mary.
 
I would say that it might be wise to slow it down a bit. Instead of talking to your son about signing your grandson up for RCIA, why not simply start out with an invitation to Mass? Make it a pleasant Sunday morning outing with Mass followed by donuts or breakfast at a restaurant or whetever else your grandson might enjoy doing. Asking to take him to Mass for one Sunday is a lot less overwhelming than asking to initiate him into a faith his father does not share. And, of course, you can invite your son, too. 🙂

Then you can prepare your grandson beforehand for what he will experience at Mass (so he doesn’t completely feel like a fish out of water). And be ready to answer any questions he might raise.
 
I agree with this. I think you need to forgive yourself for your perceived “failure” in fostering religion. Like everyone else you did the best you could and now you can see what happens with your grandson. Either way, you’ll know you tried.
Mary.
Along this line, I would add that I can see how it might be tempting for someone in your situation to think of a grandchild as a “second chance.” That kind of expectation can really add to the stress and pressure of the whole situation. One could easily convince one’s self that success in this “second chance” is the only chance to make up for things and failure would mean increasing the previous “failure.” That’s a lot of pressure to put on one’s self and one’s grandchild! Forgiving yourself and accepting God’s forgiveness would go a long way towards alleviating that pressure.

Not that this is what is going on with you. It’s just something I could see happening to someone in your situation, so it’s something to look out for.
 
What a difficult situation. Remember, you don’t have to go from 0 to 60 at once. Maybe asking if you could take him to mass once or twice a month. Then after a few months start a conversation like “I was having a conversation with Fr. So&So and we wound up talking about baptism…”

More importantly though, is changing the conversation from restrictive rules to a soul’s salvation. We don’t go to church to satisfy a set of rules, at least we should not be doing that, we go to worship our creator and redeemer without whom we are doomed. Entering into the Church is not about checking a box, it’s about saving a soul.

Jesus respects us, and as 2Cor10 states, we will all appear before Him to answer for our lives. If we choose to walk apart from Him while inhabiting our bodies, He will respect that and allow us to be apart from Him for eternity.

Good luck. I will keep your family in my prayers.
 
I would suggest simply taking your grandson to Mass with you (if you are not already). Take “baby steps”. Don’t jump into RCIA right away. Wait until your grandson builds an interest in the Church. Talk to him about the readings and what happened at Mass afterwards each day. Perhaps at brunch after Mass? You could make Sundays a bonding day between grandparents and grandson, centered on Mass.

Keep in mind that with RCIA, typically, the child would be bapized, receive confession, Confirmantion & Communion all in one day. So for your son, that might be too much at once. But if you ease your grandson into it, it won’t be a huge shock for your son.

NOTE: I know that in some diocesses they have RCIA and RCIC (where they hold off on the Confirmation until the child is in high school). So at 8 years old, he may or many not receieve Confirmation, depending on the view of the Bishop.
 
At 8, your grandson is considered an adult for the sacraments of initiation. Perhaps I missed it in your OP, but I don’t see any mention of his interest in the sacraments. Has he expressed a desire to be baptized?

As an RCIA director I would be looking first at the person to be initiated, then because of his age I would want to see support from the parent. Grandma’s interest in the process would be the third level.

I have to commend you for involving your son in this decision. I have been approached by other grandparents in your situation about baptizing their older grandchildren. In one case when I asked what the parents thought about the idea I was told “they have no idea I’m doing this. Perhaps you could call them and tell them about it.”
Truthfully, Kyler (the grandson) hasn’t expressed interest or disinterest in anything religious. He’s as clueless as his Dad right now–if I can get him into RCIA and he wants no part of it–well, I won’t pretend that I won’t be hurt and disappointed–but I’d have to accept it and I at least tried–and will keep trying, even if I am never successful. Until he was around me a little more though-- which really only happened within the last 4 or 5 months–he never thought about religion one way or another. Christmas was Santa–not Jesus’ birthday. Easter is about a bunny rabbit. He knows no bible stories but he plays a mean video game. And frankly, after running into some of his little playmates–they are pretty heathen too. The Catholic community in the small town where I currently live isn’t large–and I kinda suspect most of these other kids’ parents aren’t big into any church either.
 
What a difficult situation. Remember, you don’t have to go from 0 to 60 at once. Maybe asking if you could take him to mass once or twice a month. Then after a few months start a conversation like “I was having a conversation with Fr. So&So and we wound up talking about baptism…”

More importantly though, is changing the conversation from restrictive rules to a soul’s salvation. We don’t go to church to satisfy a set of rules, at least we should not be doing that, we go to worship our creator and redeemer without whom we are doomed. Entering into the Church is not about checking a box, it’s about saving a soul.

Jesus respects us, and as 2Cor10 states, we will all appear before Him to answer for our lives. If we choose to walk apart from Him while inhabiting our bodies, He will respect that and allow us to be apart from Him for eternity.

This just might be the better approach–to go a little at a time and ask his Dad for a baby step. I will have to contemplate on this idea…
 
By the way, my grandson has never even been baptized–which is testimony to my son’s disinterest in religion as a whole–but another reason I feel so desperately compelled to get pro-active pretty quickly. I mean, I have a grandchild running around who is over 8 years old and is UNBAPTIZED— and of course, it absolutely TERRIFIES ME! Even at my most “pagan” I was never quite brave enough not to have my 5 kids baptized!!!:banghead:
Dearest Starr’s Mother, You are dealing with so many “issues”. May God give you peace in all of these areas.

Pray and be at Peace. God has blessed you with a wonderful family including this precious grandson. God will lead you in how to help your grandson.

Do not have any fear. If your precious grandson were to die unbaptized…at this young age… do not fear God would meet him with wrath. God would welcome this little child… a little child whose parents decided not to follow any faith.

There’s a few ways to approach your concerns. Speaking with your son is the first thing. Don’t expect him to say, “Sure, Mom, I’ll be happy to attend my son’s baptism.”… but you never know… maybe he will… or maybe he will another day.

Maybe just allowing his son to attend Mass and Sunday School will be the first move he makes.

Maybe he won’t allow him to attend Mass now, but you can still teach your little grandson about God and about teachings of the Church as part of every day life living with Grandma.

On another note, please speak with your priest to help guide you through understanding that you do not need to have any fears about your grandson possibly dying at such a young age unbaptized due to his parent’s choice.

Also ask the priest to help you in forgiving yourself for not following the Faith for so many years and not raising your children in the Faith. I can hear your remorse. God hears your remorse. Yes, your choice has consequences which you are seeing and are very sad to see. God has forgiven you. (Maybe you mentioned in your OP, if you haven’t made a good confession on this… do so.) Now, it is time to forgive yourself.

As for your adult children, even though you didn’t lead them as children to be strong in the Faith, as adults, it is their responsibility in how they live their lives and how they hold and practice their Faith or lack of faith.

You are a very blessed woman. God has lead you back to His Church. Welcome Home.

You have not painted yourself into a corner. You are living in God’s wonderful world and you have the whole world open to you. You have fresh canvas to paint every single day. Turn around from that corner and look out at what beauty you have before you. The beauty to live as a Catholic. The beauty to share your love with your family and friends every day… just by being who you are… not by lots of teachings… just by living. You also have been blessed that your son and grandson are in your home. You will touch both of their lives, just by knowing Grandma/Mom’s new love again for God and His Holy Church.

Be at peace when you give your son this “invitation” for your grandson to begin attending Mass with you. Take away any ideas of expressing any fears to your son. Just be at peace. If he says “no”, you can ask next week if your grandson can attend Mass with you.

If your son wants to discuss (not fight) about any of the Church teachings - agree to - but maybe only one “issue” at a time. Ask him to allow you a chance to gather some more information as to why the Church teaches as She does. As time goes by and you can show him things such as the church is not “homophobic”, you may see a change in your son. Many people who dislike what the Church teaches, do not fully understand what it actually is that the Church teaches.

May God bless you and give you Peace.

St. Monica ~ Pray for us.
 
I would say that it might be wise to slow it down a bit. Instead of talking to your son about signing your grandson up for RCIA, why not simply start out with an invitation to Mass? Make it a pleasant Sunday morning outing with Mass followed by donuts or breakfast at a restaurant or whetever else your grandson might enjoy doing. Asking to take him to Mass for one Sunday is a lot less overwhelming than asking to initiate him into a faith his father does not share. And, of course, you can invite your son, too. 🙂

Then you can prepare your grandson beforehand for what he will experience at Mass (so he doesn’t completely feel like a fish out of water). And be ready to answer any questions he might raise.
Do this. 👍

Your grandson needs to get interested in the faith before taking him to RCIA will mean anything, and besides it will be less intimidating for his dad. Top it off with curling up with your grandson at bedtime to read a bible story adapted for children (your local Catholic bookstore should be able to recommend something).

Baby steps are right. If you push too hard too soon, your son may feel you are interfering too much or undermining him as a parent, and your intentions could backfire.
 
Along this line, I would add that I can see how it might be tempting for someone in your situation to think of a grandchild as a “second chance.” That kind of expectation can really add to the stress and pressure of the whole situation. One could easily convince one’s self that success in this “second chance” is the only chance to make up for things and failure would mean increasing the previous “failure.” That’s a lot of pressure to put on one’s self and one’s grandchild! Forgiving yourself and accepting God’s forgiveness would go a long way towards alleviating that pressure.

Not that this is what is going on with you. It’s just something I could see happening to someone in your situation, so it’s something to look out for.
It is part of what’s going on with me–I have tremendous guilt. TREMENDOUS GUILT! The other piece is that my huge over all and ultimate dream–one I recognize that I may never see happen for sure not in my lifetime–is that I’d so love to see as many of my kids as I could impact, enter the church. I’d love to at least partially undo what I did–if I can and if God would allow me this gift–which He may or may not, I realize. I’ve spent the past 2 years praying about this daily, even have spoken to my priest–with no real suggestion from him on how to approach it either-- as i’m sure he sees the mess I made and probably has no clearer idea than I have as to the best way to “fix” it.–or if it’s even “fixable”. Adult kids are terribly hard to approach on religion-- and especially when what you are telling them boils down to “Remember everything i said or implied when you were growing up and I was raising you? Well forget all that, I was wrong–But believe this cause now I’m right.” They think they were raised happily and perfectly well and that I’m now on some kind of new religious tangent in my old age (I’m in my 60’s–old to them for sure!). I know that they don’t quite grasp why there’s this new change in me this late in the game and why I’m saying things that they never heard come out of my mouth before. So, if I could somehow go through the grandkids–and this grandson is only one of NINE I face much the same thing with–so i have a lot of work ahead of me-- I keep pondering and thinking that it might be a way to get the parent-units to hear what I’m saying and listen too–kinda kill several birds at once. I don’t know and am not sure—just an idea and hope—
 
This just might be the better approach–to go a little at a time and ask his Dad for a baby step. I will have to contemplate on this idea…
I really would encourage you to take the slower approach. As you said, if you ask directly and your son says “No”, then that pretty much shuts down all talk of religion indefinitely. And any future offers of taking your grandson to Mass or even casually talking about religious things will be viewed with suspicion. Your son may be a lot less open to those “little things” if he thinks you are just trying to weasel your way towards the “big thing” which he has explicitly told you he does not want…
 
It is part of what’s going on with me–I have tremendous guilt. TREMENDOUS GUILT! The other piece is that my huge dram–one I recognize that I may never see happen or for sure not in my lifetime–is that I’d so love to see as many of my kids as I could impact, enter the church. Adult kids are terribly hard to approach on religion-- and especially when hat you are telling them boils down to “Remember everything i said or implied when you were growing up and I was raising you? Well forget all that, I was wrong–But believe this cause now I’m right.” They think they were raised happily and perfectly well and that I’m now on some kind of new religious tangent in my old age (I’m in my 60’s–old to them for sure!). I know that thy don’t quite grasp why the change this late in the game and why I’m saying things that they never heard come out of my mouth before. So, if I can somehow go through the grandkids–and this grandson is only on of NINE I face much the same thing with, I keep pondering and thinking that it might be a way to get the parent-units to hear what i’m saying and listen too–kinda kill several birds at once.
Don’t let your guilt overwhelm your reason. It may cause you to push your kids, and through that, your grandkids further away. My parents left the church when I was a teenager and came back later, and they face similar feelings of guilt, especially with respect to my brother who remains outside the Church and barely even a believer. He was younger than I was when they left, and the spiritual upheaval in our family had much more of an impact on him.

Now, even a hint of being proselytized, preached at, or told what to believe, and he backs away. This makes it hard for my parents to minister to him, especially in those rare moments when he shows a glimmer of interest, because they are so eager to see him come back that they often overdo it. The result is that he backs away and it is even harder to try to bring him closer to the faith the next time. Like your kids, he kind of treats it as, “that’s my family’s thing, not mine.”

It is really important in these situations to be gentle, take baby steps, and not even appear to be pushy to them. Remember your audience, and try to reach them on their level rather than pulling them up to yours too quickly. Just show people the beauty in the Church, and let that call to them.

Remember you have access to your grandkids because their parents allow it. If your kids feel pushed, prodded, pulled, or preached at, or if they feel like you are going over their heads and going overboard with their kids, it may make them feel like you don’t trust them to parent, and you will undermine yourself.
 
Don’t let your guilt overwhelm your reason. It may cause you to push your kids, and through that, your grandkids further away. My parents left the church when I was a teenager and came back later, and they face similar feelings of guilt, especially with respect to my brother who remains outside the Church and barely even a believer. He was younger than I was when they left, and the spiritual upheaval in our family had much more of an impact on him.

Now, even a hint of being proselytized, preached at, or told what to believe, and he backs away. This makes it hard for my parents to minister to him, especially in those rare moments when he shows a glimmer of interest, because they are so eager to see him come back that they often overdo it. The result is that he backs away and it is even harder to try to bring him closer to the faith the next time. Like your kids, he kind of treats it as, “that’s my family’s thing, not mine.”

It is really important in these situations to be gentle, take baby steps, and not even appear to be pushy to them. Remember your audience, and try to reach them on their level rather than pulling them up to yours too quickly. Just show people the beauty in the Church, and let that call to them.

Remember you have access to your grandkids because their parents allow it. If your kids feel pushed, prodded, pulled, or preached at, or if they feel like you are going over their heads and going overboard with their kids, it may make them feel like you don’t trust them to parent, and you will undermine yourself.
Good points. Well put.
 
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