Need advice. Meeting with Lutheran pastor

[Jabronie]

Most of my relationship issues were lost in the great crash, so here’s a quick summary of my life

I was raised Catholic, but was atheist/agnostic/kindachristianbutnotpracticing when I met my girlfriend. I told I’d have no problem marrying her in her Lutheran church.

About a year and a half later, John Paul II passed away and his death lead me to this very forum, which in turn, lead me back to the Catholic Church. And not just in a small way. I mean in a daily rosary/daily Mass type of way. A year and a half later, I’m still that way.

Needless to say, the gf didn’t like that all too well. So anyhow, we stayed together. Marriage plans are on hold, but I still think God means for us to be together.

As we try to work this out, we’re planning on meeting with each other’s clergy in the next week or two.

So my question to you at this great forum is this: How should I prepare for this meeting? I don’t think a debate is what we’re trying to accomplish. I do plan to ask lots of respectfully questions (Such as “Why do Lutherans accept Luther’s teaching of Sola Scriptura, but not his teaching on devotion to our Blessed Mother?”)

Sorry this was long. Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[cazayoux]

Three things to definitely do …

1 - PRAY
2 - PRAY
3 - PRAY

… oh … and remember that God favors the prepared, so your 1.5 years in this forum is a fantastic thing to have in your pocket.

Don’t think that you have to answer all of his questions in this first meeting. Maybe you take this first meeting as just a way to get a list of questions from her pastor.

Be sure not to get combative in any way.

Don’t be afraid to say “I don’t know”.

Your approach can be one of “I’m seeking the truth, Pastor L. Please give me the worst of the questions you have for me to investigate so that I can be sure I’m making the right choice.”

Set up the second meeting before the first one ends.

At this second meeting be prepared with some answers to those first questions (we can all help with those) and maybe a couple of questions of your own.

If you go on the offensive, I’d suggest a discussion around church authority. John Martignoni has a fantastic free download discussion on this at biblechristiansociety.com if you want to prep. If Christ’s church is to never fail, ask the pastor where the ‘true’ church was throughout each of the last ~2000 years. Another goody: How do you reform a church by leaving it?

My thoughts, anyway.

michel

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

Most of my relationship issues were lost in the great crash, so here’s a quick summary of my life

Darn that great crash! I lost my original account thanks to that.

I was raised Catholic, but was atheist/agnostic/kindachristianbutnotpracticing when I met my girlfriend. I told I’d have no problem marrying her in her Lutheran church.

What Lutheran group does she belong to? If she is ELCA, you’ll have an easier time. If she is LCMS, you’re facing some difficult times. If she is WELS, I don’t think it will work.

About a year and a half later, John Paul II passed away and his death lead me to this very forum, which in turn, lead me back to the Catholic Church. And not just in a small way. I mean in a daily rosary/daily Mass type of way. A year and a half later, I’m still that way.

**I am very, very happy to hear (well, read) that! /]

Needless to say, the gf didn’t like that all too well. So anyhow, we stayed together. Marriage plans are on hold, but I still think God means for us to be together.

You need to pray and pray some more. One thing you have to remember is that if you are blessed with children, the Church expects you to raise them Catholic. That is your Christian duty. This is one reason why I discourage interfaith marriages. You need to talk long and hard about the issue of children, especially about which Church they will be baptized, raised, and confirmed in.**

As we try to work this out, we’re planning on meeting with each other’s clergy in the next week or two.

**That is a good idea, I think./B]

So my question to you at this great forum is this: How should I prepare for this meeting? I don’t think a debate is what we’re trying to accomplish. I do plan to ask lots of respectfully questions (Such as “Why do Lutherans accept Luther’s teaching of Sola Scriptura, but not his teaching on devotion to our Blessed Mother?”)

I really can’t give you advice on that until you tell us what group this Luthern pastor belongs to. Like I said, if he is ELCA, you may not have too hard a time. If he is LCMS, it will vary but expect a (hopefully) friendly meeting that includes alot of disagreement. If he is WELS, forget about it accomplishing alot. In my experience, WELS pastors are very decent people, until you start discussing theology, especially Catholic theology. They still believe (as I think LCMS does) that the papacy is the AntiChrist and the like. My biggest piece of advice is to pray, pray, and then pray.**

 

[puzzleannie]

I don’t think an apologetics debate is the best way to begin a relationship with your girlfriend’s pastor. Your meeting with both clergymen should be for the purpose of discerning if you are being called to marriage with each other and how you will resolve the almost insurmountable problems posed by religious differences. If she is firm in her faith, and you are still uncommitted, that will probably have a strong effect on what happens eventually with you and your children.

 

[Jabronie]

I don’t think an apologetics debate is the best way to begin a relationship with your girlfriend’s pastor. Your meeting with both clergymen should be for the purpose of discerning if you are being called to marriage with each other and how you will resolve the almost insurmountable problems posed by religious differences. If she is firm in her faith, and you are still uncommitted, that will probably have a strong effect on what happens eventually with you and your children.

Puzzleannie, You’re right. Apologetics debate isn’t the goal here. We’re planning on meeting with each other’s clergy more for advice than anything. But I’m sure there will be some debate since we are also are both prepared to bring the “why I can’t convert” list in both cases.

The end goal is also to find out exactly what we can and cannot compromise.

I know that I must state that it is my intention to raise children Catholic and that she must be aware that I make that promise in order for our marriage to be blessed by the Church. She also knows that I won’t marry without getting our marriage blessed by Church.

All is not bad though. She now fully excepts my reasoning on why I won’t live together outside of marriage and also understands that I’m unable to give up my Church for anything.

The idea of meeting with each other’s pastors is a good start though. The priest I’m going to try to get to meet with us should be able to answer her questions a lot better than me.

 

[Jabronie]

She’s ELCA.

 

[Jabronie]

I really can’t give you advice on that until you tell us what group this Luthern pastor belongs to. Like I said, if he is ELCA, you may not have too hard a time. If he is LCMS, it will vary but expect a (hopefully) friendly meeting that includes alot of disagreement. If he is WELS, forget about it accomplishing alot. In my experience, WELS pastors are very decent people, until you start discussing theology, especially Catholic theology. They still believe (as I think LCMS does) that the papacy is the AntiChrist and the like. My biggest piece of advice is to pray, pray, and then pray.

She’s ELCA. Her biggest “sticky points” for Catholicism is our sacraments. Especially Penance, Holy Orders and our doctrines about the Eucharist. I suppose if she believed that last one she’d be Catholic, though.

 

[Jabronie]

My thoughts, anyway.
michel

Thanks. Just for fun, someone on another forum was asking mixed-faith advice. Here’s what I wrote there:

1. (Most importantly) PRAY. Pray, pray, pray and pray. And then when you’re finished, pray some more.

1. Support her in her journey with Christ and never intentionally knock or bash her faith.

1. Don’t openly challenge her, but instead wait for her to ask you questions. When she asks, be prepared to answer in a fair and loving way. Sometime it can get hard to not accidentally insult her, but if you sense that she is getting frustrated with your answer say something like “I’m not telling you what to believe; I’m just sharing the Catholic point of view…”

1. Remain Catholic at all times. Go to her church too, but never (EVER) skip Mass in order to attend her church. She may get a little irritated by the fact that you go to your church after hers or on Saturday night, but it will also help her see how important this is to you. She will respect that. Who knows, maybe she’ll even start offering to attend Mass with you.

1. Don’t just start throwing Scott Hahn and Karl Keating books at her. Wait until it’s appropriate. For example, during a discussion, “You know (girlfriend) I can’t answer that as well as I’d like to, but there’s this great former Presbyterian pastor named Scott Hahn who writes and speaks about this same topic. Could I talk you into reading some of his work?”

1. Here’s one I have trouble doing, but it’s also very important. Be as honest as possible when explaining Catholic teaching. Don’t try to water it down any more than you need to. I inadvertently convinced my girlfriend that the Sacrament of Reconciliation was only optional for Catholics at one point.

1. Don’t try to convert her. It’s not your job; it’s the job of the Holy Spirit. Your job is to remain Catholic. Your love and prayers will help her convert if that is God’s plan.

1. Speaking of God’s plan; pray constantly for Him to tell you what His plan is. Be sure that He wants you to be with this girl. If it is His plan for you to be together, God will make sure it works out.

1. Make sure that if she asks you anything you can’t answer, you don’t just make something up. Find the right answer and get back to her. Catholic.com, chnetwork.org, scripturecatholic.com, and biblechristiansociety.com are just a few great websites to find the correct answer from a catholic point of view.

1. Don’t forget point number 1. PRAY!

 

[Della]

If she is as firm in her faith as you are in yours, then perhaps the better thing would be to say good bye to one another to allow yourselves the opportunity to marry within your own faith communities.

Marriage is hard enough without beginning it with such a millstone around your necks, and when children come along it gets even worse.

What will your children think when mommy won’t go to Mass with you and them? Aren’t they going to get the idea that either they should pity their mother or that neither’s beliefs are worth it?

Seriously, just being in love is never a good enough reason to get married. I think you ought to break up unless or until one or the other can be what the other is, and for you as a committed Catholic, you know what that means.

I write this with full regard for your feelings, both of you, and for your benefit and the benefit of any children you may have had. God bless you both!

 

[spanky]

How should I prepare for this meeting?

Her sticky issues, as you say, may be the sacraments. The Lutheran churches do tend to have a different definition of “sacrament”. But, I’m guessing that more than anything, I’d be prepared to talk about assurance of salvation with her pastor. That’s been my experience anyway. Good luck!

 

[MariaG]

Puzzleannie, You’re right. Apologetics debate isn’t the goal here. We’re planning on meeting with each other’s clergy more for advice than anything. But I’m sure there will be some debate since we are also are both prepared to bring the “why I can’t convert” list in both cases.

The end goal is also to find out exactly what we can and cannot compromise.

I know that I must state that it is my intention to raise children Catholic and that she must be aware that I make that promise in order for our marriage to be blessed by the Church. She also knows that I won’t marry without getting our marriage blessed by Church.

All is not bad though. She now fully excepts my reasoning on why I won’t live together outside of marriage and also understands that I’m unable to give up my Church for anything.

The idea of meeting with each other’s pastors is a good start though. The priest I’m going to try to get to meet with us should be able to answer her questions a lot better than me.

As you say, come prepared. Pray and pray some more.

But, in my opinion, the question of the devotion to Mary coming from YOU will not help this discussion.

Also in my opinion you need to focus not on theology, but the practical points. Like can your GF get married knowing that the children will be raised Catholic or does she have to make a similar promise thereby making it impossible for you both to keep your promises?

Will her pastor have a problem if she attends Catholic Mass with her family every week? On occassion? On special days? Does he expect you to bring the children to Both churches and raise them in both as a “compromise”? Can you deal with it if she never comes to Mass with you and your family even on special days like Christmas?

Can your gf, when she is your wife and the mother of your children in good conscience not share with the kids why she is not Catholic? Can you deal with her sharing the reasons why and possibly damaging the growing faith of your children?

What about artificial Birth control? Will you gf wish to use it? What does her pastor think about it and how would he cousel her if she came to him to talk about not wanting more kids but hubby won’t consider ABC? Could gf trust and practice approved methods of child spacing? Again, what does her pastor think and how would she be couseled if she came to him asking for advice?

These are the kinds of questions I would try to focus on.

Just my :twocents: from the wife of 18 years in a marriage with a man who is not Catholic.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[gardenswithkids]

She’s ELCA. Her biggest “sticky points” for Catholicism is our sacraments. Especially Penance, Holy Orders and our doctrines about the Eucharist. I suppose if she believed that last one she’d be Catholic, though.

What Luther actually taught surprises some Lutherans. Here’s a link to Luther’s Small Catechism:bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.html Check out the section on the section on “Confession”, which may be particularly interesting to your girlfriend. Luther retained confession even if he didn’t regard it as a sacrement.

I attended my husband’s ELCA parish for several years earlier in our marriage. ELCA is generally regarded as a very liberal synod. We share much in common through our faith in Christ, and ELCA doesn’t generally have the anti-Catholic prejudices found in some other Lutheran synods and other Protestant denominations. (But it increasingly embraces secular culture, which is the main reason my husband left it.) Expect that this pastor probably knows numerous Catholics, former Catholics and others who compromise their faith.