Need Advice - My Husband's Job

[m33z3r]

Hello everybody,

I’ve long been facing a situation that I know many others face on and off, and I could really use advice - both from wives who have “been there” and husbands as well.

My husband and I have been married for 10 years and have three children, ages 8, 3 and 1. I’m 41 and stay home with the kids; he is 50. He’s been at his current job for 6 years and works in the tax/accounting profession. He’s been struggling with the concept of “being at the top” (CFO, Controller) of his field for years because he’s at the age where many men are. He has applied for (and been offered) jobs elsewhere. He’s remained where he is, though, because of our roots here and the fact that his pay and benefits are decent, if not great. Although he does not often complain, I know he’s not satisfied where he is.

MY problem is the amount of time he spends at work. This has been a point of contention for us for years. We haven’t taken a vacation for over 2 years; our “getaways” are to fly to visit my inlaws 350 miles away each Thanksgiving. He may take a rare day off to cover me for a long appointment, but that amounts to maybe 2 full days a year. I had a miscarriage two years ago; when we knew it was coming, he asked his boss to reschedule our pending vacation by two days, and she refused to do so (I was having a natural m/c, not a D&C). When our youngest was born last year, he was able to take two half days off (I’d had a C-section). The baby was due April 24 - after the big tax deadline - but born three weeks early. Because our child “arrived at the wrong time”, he was not allowed any more time off.

Anymore, I’ve given up on asking him to take time off. Because of our kids’ ages and the distance we’d have to travel to get anywhere significant (like to see my family or much of the US), I’d just like for him to take time off to spend at home. But no can do. The beginning of each month is his (previous) “month end” deadline; the middle of nearly every month is some sort of tax deadline; the month of January is out because of “year end”; every third month it’s quarter end, and on and on and on … He put in nearly 600 hours of unpaid overtime last year (he’s salaried), at his and our expense. This past week he’s been off to work at 4:30 a.m. and home at 6:30 p.m. Last Saturday, he worked all day.

Life is often like this. I’m sick of it! I thnk he is too, but I also think he lives in fear of standing up for himself/us. He tries soooo (tooo) hard to please the bosses. I am convinced that he will never get farther ahead than he is in this company because his bosses are his age or younger and obviously doing well. He’s also a nice guy, not a jerk, and I think that sort of personality is considered lacking in business leaders.

The bottom line: I am burnt out from life as it is with no changes in sight. I need a break. I need to get away from here for a while. I wish he would just accept the fact that he has both a good job and a family that needs more than a paycheck from him, and find a better way to balance the two. I’ve long been wanting to write to his boss to let her know that WE NEED HIM TOO - and to ask her not only to allow him some scheduled breaks, but to encourage him to take them. I’m really not blaming the company - I think my husband is too afraid to stand up to them, and they are happy to use him until he fizzles out.

Any advice, please from working dads and from moms who’ve been in these shoes? Thanks!

 

[Cossack1]

I was in public accounting for many years and I can vouch for the fact that it is a demanding profession. Tax season will be starting again in January. I have since changed professions, but I did that when I was single. Many of my friends that are still in the profession tell me it is more common that firms now allow “flex-time” where people can spend time with their families and work at slightly more convenient times. However, if your husband switches companies it may involve substantial pay cut. If you are a thrifty family that lives below their means and saves for retirement this may be an option. If you already have high home and car payments this may be impossible. Do you have a large nest egg to rely upon for retirement and to cover the time between jobs?

Bear in mind that successful people simply can not expect to get ahead while working only 9-5 and putting in only 40 hrs. It sounds like your husband is doing well for you and your family and you should be as supportive as possible. Many men are dedicated to jobs that pay very little. If he is earning a high salary commensurate with the time he works he should proably stay.

 

[m33z3r]

Thank you for your response, Cossack - I was afraid that my thread was going to disappear. As far as being supportive, I am to the best of my ability. Bear in mind that I am pretty much rearing 3 youngsters on my own. I have no family nearby, and child care is hard to come by. If I was widowed or divorced, it would be a little easier to accept, but I have a husband who just is never home. Six hundred hours of overtime translates to 15 weeks of overtime! We’re lucky to have 6 waking hours a day together, and his company squeaks 600 of those hours away from us? He is missing out on his children’s lives, I am absolutely burnt out and we are living parallel lives. I can only be supportive for so long, then I reach my limit. I’m there now.

I appreciate your insight - I know the accounting profession is a killer - but I need to get things turned around here. I’m not asking for nine to five - it’s seven a.m. to six p.m. under the best circumstances. I just need advice on how to get him to realize that in the end, what he did for his company will matter far less to all of us than what he did for his family.

 

[Cossack1]

“I’m not asking for nine to five - it’s seven a.m. to six p.m. under the best circumstances.”

During tax season I got in at 6AM and worked till 11PM. Of coarse that ended April 15. To be honest, working till 6PM doesn’t sound out of line. Again, if his pay is commensurate with those hours it is time well spent.

At 50 years old he may find it hard to find employment elsewhere. I have seen other people who worked far more hours than your husband for much less than he is probably making.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

What is your husband’s point of view? Does he want to spend more time at home or even realize that you guys want him home more? Would he consider a different job? Have you guys talked about this at all?

Malia

 

[SemperJase]

m33z3r:

Any advice, please from working dads and from moms who’ve been in these shoes? Thanks!

Wow. There is a lot here.
Maybe I can offer a little insight from a male perspective.
Why would a man work so many hours with little financial incentive for the extra effort? You said he is afraid to stand up to them.

I can relate to him in one perspective. It is a horrible feeling to be caught between your job that provides for your family and your wife who hates your job and thinks you are afraid of standing up.

He may feel trapped. It’s a bad job but it is a job. He sees little opportunity and is trying to work within their system to get ahead. In fact, “standing up” to them may very well end his career. Yet he knows he has to keep a job for your financial security.

One immediate suggestion, don’t criticize him for being afraid of his employers Any accusations will only make him withdraw and feel that you aren’t supporting him. Saying he is afraid makes it his fault when he feels he is working as hard as he can to make life better for his family. It feels like betrayal when those he is trying to support give that type of critcism. It really becomes an attack on his masculinity.

At the same time, there is clearly a conflict in priorities. Yours are justified in wanting him to spend more time with you and your children. You mentioned he is missing his kids lives. Certainly the rewards of watching ones children are important. There is another responsiblity as well, that is he is an important influence on rearing your children. Especially your eldest. He or she at 8 years old is getting to the point where your nurturing is starting to be less important and his role as father and male role model is essential.

Your post here tells me you have reached a crisis. The fact that this has been a conflict for years says that there is a communication problem.

I’ll go out on a limb here and make some guesses about this conflict. I’m guessing that you want to talk about it and he withdraws from the conversation. You want find a resolution and feel he is being evasive. Clearly you are at the breaking point.

If what I said above desribes you, I agree it is time to talk but you can’t confront him in doing it. I sincerely suggest counseling. If he is resistant to that go out and buy the book “Fighting for Your Marriage by Howard J. Markman.”

Some suggestions, the first thing is to approach him non-confontationally. Start by telling him how much you appreciate how hard he works and how it provides for you and the kids (I’m sure you do). Then you may want to ask what he wants from his career and family. He may see where this is going and want to withdraw. It will help if you are able to avoid the words “you always” or “you never” and “you need to…”

There is much more but that is a place to start.
Some things to consider, What are his options in his career? Does he have to stay working for this company? Can he do the same thing for company in another industry ? Would it be better to move to another city? Could he think you are resistant to moving which leads to his feeling of being trapped with this company in this town?

 

[m33z3r]

All right - one last shot.

First of all, Cossack, you clearly are not in my shoes nor are you attempting to put yourself in my position. I am asking for my husband to be a husband, not just a paycheck. You may be an accountant but you are avoiding the math here. My husband worked for a CPA firm and I can tell you that tax season was hell, but it was confined to several months a year. He was NOT working 600 hours of overtime then! He was able to work flextime during the summer then. There is no end in sight here! Pick and choose 600 hours out of your evenings and weekends and tell me what’s left! Do you have a family? Do you have kids? You did suggest that the end (the money) justifies the means. If the end is a shattered marriage and kids who effectively grow up without a dad, does that justify the means? I sensed that you were mocking me in your last post, so if that’s the best you can do, please refrain from adding more to this thread.

Jase, thank you for your attempt to be insightful. You hit a lot of things on the mark. But first let me add a little background. I spent nine years as an active duty military officer so I can appreciate the “male” perspective you offered. I was single then, but the hours could be long for everybody and I do remember the military making certain that families were taken care of and time off was granted after deployments and other periods of extended hours. I remember that soldiers with families had oodles of resources available to them to help them cope with the demands of military life. This is a whole different ballgame.

I have, I think, been very supportive of him in all ways. I know that he has struggled with the issue of job fulfillment for years, and I have made known to him that I am flexible in terms of moving, jobs that might involve travel, etc. I do not harrass him or try to make him feel guilty. Here are some other things to consider. His family is nearby, while mine is anywhere from 3,000 to 6,000 miles away. It is nearly impossible to see them under the current circumstances. The demands of having children this age are pretty substantial on any marriage - add to that an absent husband and it’s hard on all of us, me too.

I know he feels caught between us and his job. I don’t think telling his boss that his family needs him and that he needs time off is asking too much. We have a child with medical problems - he doesn’t even want to take time off to care for the other children while I take her in for semiannual MRI’s. Isn’t there something wrong with this?

Am I as crazy as somebody here seems to think I am for wanting my husband back? Hasn’t anyone else worked their way through this? I know that marriages dissolve over this sort of thing. It is what I am trying to prevent.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

m33z3r:

Am I as crazy as somebody here seems to think I am for wanting my husband back? Hasn’t anyone else worked their way through this? I know that marriages dissolve over this sort of thing. It is what I am trying to prevent.

You are definitely NOT crazy (at least not from what you have posted).

It seems like you may need to seek some sort of help to get through this. From what I am hearing, your husband is using work as an excuse to not participate in the family.

Maybe he feels like he has nothing to contribute? Maybe having an ill child is scary to him because it is something that he cannot fix?

It seems that many people on these forums have been helped by a marriage Encounter or Retrouvaille weekend. You could also try a Catholic therapist.

You can’t go on the way things are now. You and your family need to agree on these kinds of issues. If you don’t, the resentment and bitterness will tear you apart.

Not that I think you are causing any of the problems, but I highly recommend reading “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands” by Dr.Laura. It gave me great insight into the male psyche and opened my eyes to some of the things I thought I was doing right that I really wasn’t. It can give you miraculous results if you let it.

I will pray that you and your husband can work this out to both of your satisfaction.

Malia

 

[SemperJase]

m33z3r:

I have, I think, been very supportive of him in all ways.

That is good news. Please don’t take my words as claiming “you’re wrong”.

Speaking about your husband here - in stressful circumstances like this it is very easy to over react. That is when you are talking, he is reading into your words and thinking ahead to where the conversation is going. “Uh oh, not the job argument again” is what he is thinking even when you are not trying to fight over it.

It is hard (very hard) to break that cycle without recognizing it first. You see yourself being supportive (and I’m sure that you are). He feels it as criticism. That is how we as humans {OK, men } react to conflict. It is a natural defense mechanism. For most of us it is hard to break until we start recognizing it.

That leads to another problem. Men don’t like to fight with their wives. We then try to end the conflict by withdrawing from it. Obviously that is not a healthy thing to do in the long run.

m33z3r:

Am I as crazy as somebody here seems to think I am for wanting my husband back? Hasn’t anyone else worked their way through this? I know that marriages dissolve over this sort of thing. It is what I am trying to prevent.

No, you are not crazy. You see him not taking his share of the responsibility in caring for your children. He obviously has different priorities. The two of you are not on the same path.

From our short discussion here I would say that this goes far deeper than him not taking time for the MRI. There is a behaviorial (not just communication) issue here.

He has different priorities than you do. The only way to solve this is to find a way to syncronize those priorities.

Personally I empathize with you. My dad was (still is) a workaholic. It was very frustrating for me as a pre-teen and teenager to need to talk him but him not be there.

I resolved that I would not do the same and make sure I balance my work life with quantity time for my wife (quality time is a myth - with family quantity is quality).

This is why on another discussion board I put a quote from Dennis Prager in my signature:
Clergy of every faith have said to me: “I have been with many men approaching death; and not one has ever said, ‘I only regret that I didn’t spend more time at the office.’” -Dennis Prager

 

[m33z3r]

Thanks Jase - I’d heard that quote before and was looking for it!

And thank you for the male p.o.v. and for being so honest about it. I lost my sister unexpectedly a few years ago, and it made me think about the eventuality of death and how I really didn’t want to have regrets at the end. Which meant I had to make peace with some people and change a lot of things about the way I operated. I don’t think my husband thinks that way at all. He’s been through some tough times personally, including conquering drug/alcohol addictions, but it seems to me he stopped short. He never became actively involved in practicing his faith (Lutheranism) and God’s plan does not seem to guide him or help him set priorities. He wants so hard to make his mark at this company; I don’t see it happening. I’m no oracle but there have been plenty of signs. I simply want him to be grateful for the job he has, do it well, but not kill himself doing it and certainly not to grow old without ever really being a part of the family. It makes me sad to see that our kids have really bonded with me, but not so with Dad. I resent it when somebody suggests that it’s all worth it if the pay is good.

 

[SemperJase]

I can’t suggest enough to get the book Fighting for Your Marriage.
It should be issued with every marriage certificate

If you decide to pick it up, I’d like to hear what you think about it.

And you’re right, there isn’t enough money in the world to make up for an absent parent. Have you seen how disfunctional Fortune 500 CEO’s kids are? Their dads work 70 hours a week and have no time left to influence the kids lives.

I hope your husband can find more time for his family. Someday he’ll be retired (assuming the stress doesn’ t get him first) and his kids won’t know who he is - neither will his wife for that matter.

The book may help you understand the dynamics in a marriage when one person withdraws and the other pursues. It’s like they wrote it about me and my wife. Very eerie.

 

[DJgang]

m33z3r:

Am I as crazy as somebody here seems to think I am for wanting my husband back? Hasn’t anyone else worked their way through this? I know that marriages dissolve over this sort of thing. It is what I am trying to prevent.

Not crazy at all. The only difference between you and me is that my husband and I own our business. Now, having said that…my husband feels even more compelled to work a lot. Leaves about 6:30am, home between 7:30 - 8pm. Right now is “harvest” season. He has sold a lot of equipment and those people run that equipment from sun up to sun down…including Sundays .

I started out asking him to please not work on Sundays! He has stuck to that unless an emergency occurs. I’ve been known to answer his cell phone and him not know it on Sundays. A couple of customers, I flat our asked if it were an emergency…when they answered no, I told them that I would have him call them back later.

There are days that I resent him so much! Just being honest.

What has helped us? Right now, Saturday nights are our “date night”. We spend time together. It’s helping. Maybe your husband could commit to some “alone” time with you. If it’s only coffee in the am…or just sometime alone. Mostly so that you don’t feel pushed to the “back burner”…which I know you feel like.

Something that I haven’t been able to get my husband to do is come home early just one night a week. I’m assuming, if you are like me, your husband is never home to sit down for supper/dinner with you and the kids. I know how you feel. We are all sitting around the table (5 yo, 16 month, and baby in the bouncy seat) I sit all of us at the dinner table for supper every night without my husband.

All in all, please know that I know how you feel.

It’s lonely. And nothing that I or anyone else says can take away that feeling.

You are in my prayers.

 

[Shari]

I don’t think your crazy and can understand where you are. At my hubbys job he is supposed to work two 12hr days and two 8hr days. Most of the time it ends up being 4-5 12hr days. Because of the shift which is usually 11am-11pm there have been times where the kids(5 of them ages 7&under)haven’t seen there dad for a whole week, with gas the way it is he sometimes spends a couple of nights by his grandmas who lives close to his work, he drives 40 min one way, so a 12hr day is really a 14hr day. I know it is hard and a lot of our friends don’t know how I do it, they have said it’s like I am a single parent. When he does have his days off he has a lot of things to catch up on around the house and wants a little time to himself. he does try to spend as much time with the kids also. Now this is where you have me beat. It sounds like you hubby doesn’t mind his work schedule. Mine hates it and hates the time away from the family, but with no college degree he has worked his way up at this company from the bottom. Through prayer and discernment we know this is where we are to be for now. I offer it as a sacrifice. Because he has made himself an invaluble rescource at his company they are now making a position for him that will be better for us. I know it’s tough and I would just pray that your hubby would want out of this predicument as much as possible. I know what it’s like to feel like your raising the kids by yourself, breakfast to bathtime by yourself. I also don’t have family close by, although not as far away as yours. But not right across the street either. I will pray for you and your family that God lets you know what he wants.

 

[m33z3r]

Thank you Shari, Jase, and DJ … I knew I wasn’t the only one going through this, and I thank you for your responses. Jase, I will get the book and let you know what I think of it (I’ll also be getting the book Malia recommended).

I’m just flabbergasted that people in our society think it’s OK to be worked so long at such a cost. (See Cossack’s posts). Putting the job ahead of everything else is flat out wrong. For short busy periods, OK, but all the time, absolutely not. I can only hope that there are employers and supervisors out there who read this and realize that our society is built upon healthy families, and can only thrive when families are allowed to do so.

 

[captaincatholic]

When I was growing up, my dad was a self-employed contractor, and his job was grueling. I remember that he would be gone for work before I woke up at 6 in the morning and not come home until long after I was in bed at 9. Things were rough all around. It was hard on my dad to try to establish a reputation and to compete with other contractors, and for my mom to manage everything at home: clients’ calls, bookwork, bills, and the children (I think there were 6 of us at the time). Things did get better, but the got worse first. I remember hearing my parents fighting about time with the family. Even when he did take time off for the holidays, it was only to travel to see the other members of the family, so we didn’t have much time at home with him until he changed jobs. Now he works from home, so he can work long days, but Mom can take his cup of coffee down the stairs and hand it to him, and ask him questions about this, that, or the other thing. Best of all, when he needs to run errands for work, she can go with him, since the children are old enough to take care of eachother now. (I am the oldest and 22, but the oldest at home through the day is 19.)

Basically, I guess what I would say to you is to not give up. You are justified in wanting your husband to be around more, and he needs to have more confidence in himself, and to realize his own importance at home, not only at the office. Is there any way he could bring extra work home for the evenings or weekends so that he could be at least physically present with you a few more hours?

I will pray for you.

 

[wabrams]

m33z3r:

I’m just flabbergasted that people in our society think it’s OK to be worked so long at such a cost. (See Cossack’s posts). Putting the job ahead of everything else is flat out wrong. For short busy periods, OK, but all the time, absolutely not. I can only hope that there are employers and supervisors out there who read this and realize that our society is built upon healthy families, and can only thrive when families are allowed to do so.

I have to say that I fall somewhere in the middle here. I think Cossack’s was meaning men have this idea they have to do what is necessary to provide for their families and put in whatever hours at work they need to. I don’t think you’re crazy, either.
This thread reminds me of my great aunt telling me about her father (my great grand-dad) working pre-dawn to post-sunset 6 days a week. They rarely saw him, but they understood he was doing it so they all could have a better life.

 

[Cossack1]

M33z3r:

Honestly, I re-read my prior post and I don’t see how you could construe that I was “mocking you.” I apologize if I offended you. I merely wanted to point out that financially you might need your husband’s salary to sustain the life style you are living. This situation does not have to be resolved today, this week, or even this month. If you need to cut back on expenses because your husband may have to take pay cut I was simply recommending you start that now IF you BOTH agree that he needs to have other employment. As to the overtime, I just do not think that he is working an unreasonable amount for someone who wants to get ahead. But that is my opinion only.

If your husband has experience in public accounting and private he is probably extremely employable. He could seek work with small local firms and tell them in the job interview that he wants more family time. Small CPA firms are usually run by dad and sons so they will know where he is coming from. He could start quietly sending out resumes now, and probably be picked up in time for tax season. I do not think he will have trouble securing work at a reasonable salary even at 50. Small CPA firms tend to be more informal.

Since I have been through the accounting grinder I thought I could offer some unique insight and help, but I respect the fact that this is your thread and you would prefer that I withdraw. Good luck to both of you.

 

[m33z3r]

Captain,

Most of the weekend time that he spends at home is at the computer catching up on paperwork from his job. This allows him to be physically present with the kids and for me to get away (to do yardwork or grocery shopping), but he isn’t exactly watching them and certainly isn’t interacting with them except to keep them out of grave danger. So, that’s what our time “together” is like. And it’s pretty darn minimal at that.

I understand a man’s responsibility to earn for his family. The problem here is striking a balance. If he has to work from sunup to long after sundown to put food on the table, that’s a really tough situation. But that isn’t what this is about. I believe two things are happening here … first, he is bending over backward and killing himself to make a good impression on the boss and get a better raise at the end of the year, and second he has been made “too valuable” or “irreplaceable” in his department. No one else apparently can do the work he is doing, so no one can fill in for him when he’s gone, so he can only take time off when there’s no major deadlines for him, which is never … and on and on and on it goes. Like I said, everybody else, including the two people he works for, gets time off every year. And it’s often during those “deadline” periods too.

This is why I am mulling writing his boss a letter. First of all, she is the working mother of two kids (around ages 11 and 8). She is in her late 30’s. Now, both she and her husband have worked - no breaks for child rearing - and she makes GOOD money, so for them job satisfaction pretty clearly trumped child rearing. I doubt that she would understand exactly where I’m coming from, but I want to try to make her understand that, as a SAHM, I am working 24/7 and need a break from the grind! She knows what my husband’s work absences have been for (birth of a child, kids’ medical appointments, move to a different home). Not exactly R&R. I’m hoping to draw attention to this problem that we have and enlist her support. At worst, she could just write me off as a b**ching wife. I can’t see how it might come back to haunt my husband.

 

[m33z3r]

I’m sorry Cossack, but when you quoted the “7 am to 6 pm” thing, it appeared as if you thought I was whining. I was trying to say that I’d be thrilled if those were his hours. To me, that’s reasonable. We are completely above and beyond that, and have been for a long time.

You inferred that you were married but never said anything about kids. If you don’t have any, you have absolutely no idea how demanding they are and how completely they change your life if you don’t pass them off to someone else to raise. Even if you are a dad, I’ll add that we have a **very, very **high-maintenance child with special needs, and I won’t even get into those dynamics. Suffice to say that the stress meter around here is almost always pegged.

I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut, but do not agree that it’s OK for employers to destroy families by focusing on nothing but the bottom line. We live well within our means, so we are not driven by our bills. We could live with a lower salary, and if that’s the price of him cutting back on his hours, I’d certainly accept it. We just aren’t, as someone more or less said, on the same sheet of music, and I’m trying to get us there.

 

[Joan_M]

Unfortunately, many men (and women) who work these long hours do not work them because they love the work. They work long hours because that is what employers demand.

Too many men and women are burning themselves out because they fear losing a job they need, and, particularly after the age of 45, fear they will not be able to get another job that will let them live in modest comfort.

Professional jobs have now become the new slavery! We need emancipation badly!!

I have no words of advice for the OP - just recognition that her situation has become far too common, and there is no easy way to turn it around.