Need advice on a person that makes it obvious she hates our pastor

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BlestOne

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Our music director and organist in our tiny little parish really hates out pastor. She has been using an incident involving my ds as a reason to spread her hateful views.

At a recent open house I attended at the convent (celebrating the renovation of the convent’s kitchen) she brought it up in front of me. I told her that my ds, my dh and I all agreed with the pastor about the incident and he was not being immature or mean, in fact he was very sensitive and nice about the situation. She looked at me as if I were the stupidest woman in the world…

She continued on about it to anyone who would listen… so I stayed near her and I told her, since this involved only my family and we were OK with it she should be too… then when she still wanted to continue, I interjected and cut her off and said, “It turns out it was the best thing for everyone, the parish included… by my ds no longer altar serving, it gave other kids the opportunity to step up to the plate, which wasn’t happening before this.” Both my ds and dd were serving almost every mass and it was way past time for others to step up. She had to agree with me there but she still made comments about our pastor and his maturity level… finally I just had to leave.

How could I have handled this better? I need to go to confession about my resentment and anger on this one, but our one and only priest will know exactly what I am talking about and I’m not sure if this would just hurt his feelings or if it would be good info to know… advice?
 
If you really feel the need to discuss in confession, go to another confessor somewhere.

As for her, I would have said that it is uncharitable to gossip about the pastor and about my family and would have said “please stop talking about us.”

I guess if someone is so thick-headed that they failed to get the hint that they were being rude and out of line, well… pray for them.
 
BlestOne:
  1. It appears you did the right thing, and not only well, but as well as anyone COULD.
  2. To FEEL resentment or anger is not sinful: acting on it could be! It is a common misperception in Catholics that when we feel things that could induce us to sin in some way, to believe that BY feeling them we HAVE sinned. But that is the opposite of the reality: feeling them is temptation: NOT acting on them as we would like to is VIRTUE. Are you going to confess your virtue as though you were committing sin, namely by squelching and suppressing your emotional reaction to someone else’s inappropriate behavior or confrontation? From your tone your responses to the woman were anything but spiteful or mean-spirited–walking away IS the right response. Jesus himself said to “shake the dust off of your feet” to advise his disciples how to handle intransigence.
I hope you are able to make the distinction, and actually to give yourself and the grace of God credit for your GOOD behavior in this situation.
 
1KE… Next town over is our sister parish and the pastor there would not be a good choice because we share the organist and many other things… next closest is about 14 miles away and their confession schedule is hard for me since I work, I would have to take time off.

George…
Yes I do feel the need to confess… because I have a problem with anger and resentments and to keep my thoughts charitable, I really do need to confess. When anger interferes with my relationship with God… I know it is time… but I agree normally, this wouldn’t be a huge problem for others. It took everything I had to respond to her charitably… and the only reason I did was out of respect for the religious as I was in their house and didn’t want to call attention away from why we were there.
 
I would go to the priest in question anyway. He won’t bring it out of the confessional with him if he is a good priest and besides, you may be reinforcing his feelings by showing that you do care. As for these other people, it sounds like they need to grow up.

Pray about it, leave it in God’s pocket.
 
I am sorry that this woman has decided to draw you into her problems.

Its really too bad that it wasn’t someone like me instead of you who’s son was being used as a point for a case against another person. I would have told her where to take (stick) her problems and put a lid on talking about my son. I belong to a small parish in a small diocese (right next door to you in fact) so I can understand why this may be an issue for you.
 
BlestOne, I think it’s entirely possible to confess your anger and resentment without naming names or otherwise disclosing the situation to the priest. You just need to take it down to the bare bones - “I have given in to anger and resentment toward someone who did something unjust, to the extent that it is interfering with my relationship with God.”

And I think you handled the situation very well, from what you describe.

Betsy
 
BlestOne: If your feelings of anger and resentment are strong, you can “say to yourself” that you reject them, and realize that UNTIL YOU CODDLE THEM OR ACT ON THEM, THEY ARE ONLY TEMPTATIONS. The more you are tempted, the more virtuous it is to resist and despise them.

Sometimes such temptations are overwhelming and we think we have sinned: I wonder for myself a lot whether I do, so yes, confession is GREAT for “facing down the devil.”

Good luck; in the meantime before you can get to the sacrament, were I your confessor, I would ask you to give yourself the benefit of any doubt, based on your aversion to any pleasure or satisfaction you might ARDENTLY DESIRE but resist,

Human nature is inclined to sin: the WILL is where those inclinations are a matter of moral judgment. I like what you say, and read that you DO NOT like or take pleasure in your feelings.
 
Nosy person that I am, I kinda want to know more about the situation in question. Of course, if the situation involved altar servers and not music, then the best response to the organist (who sounds like she’s nosier than I) would be simply to tell her to mind her own business, since it seems to me that altar servers aren’t her business.

If there was a situation with my daughter and a clergy person and I was satisfied that it was resolved between my family and the cleric, I most certainly would be telling others to mind their own business if they were publicly pontificating on the situation.
 
Is it not at least a venial sin to hold on to one’s anger, to let it simmer inside, fuel it even? It seems that such “hardening” obstructs the receiving of graces of forgiveness toward those who are the objects of our anger, no?

Just asking as a general question, not only as it pertains here.

(Because it’s a problem for me.)😊

To the OP:
I had a similar situation in our Catholic elementary school. I was able to let go of some wrongs committed by a teacher against my dd, but others were not. They kept harping on said teacher, years after the incidents. But the teacher had repented beautifully – to me, personally, after she was let go of her position – although I had never confronted her or accused her or asked for her removal. (!). More honest humility & conversion I have rarely seen. She was courageous.

When parishioners/parents kept repeating her very PAST “sins,” I did defend her by stating that I was not interested in persecuting a person who was so clearly contrite, and that I had nothing but admiration for her & considered all her previous questioned actions nonexistent. In all these cases my audience was reduced to silence. I don’t know if your situation is even vaguely parallel. Just saying that one needs to be clear about where one stands. (“I have forgiven this person”; “I now see how the episode worked out well, and I’m grateful to God for it, so be grateful with me”)
…as you smile graciously, of course.
🙂
 
Elizabeth502 said:
Is it not at least a venial sin to hold on to one’s anger, to let it simmer inside, fuel it even? It seems that such “hardening” obstructs the receiving of graces of forgiveness toward those who are the objects of our anger, no?

Just asking as a general question, not only as it pertains here.

(Because it’s a problem for me.)😊
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It can sometimes be a venial sin or an imperfection. If it is bothering you, there is no harm in confessing it; it will give you grace you need to get past it. As baltobetsy said, you can easily confess this without giving details or any indication of who is involved or the nature of the injury you are having a hard time forgiving. Just confess that you are holding a grudge against someone and having a hard time forgiving. In fact, it would be better to confess it without the details. It is always best not to confess the sins of others while making our own confessions.
 
PhilotheaZ said:
It is always best not to confess the sins of others while making our own confessions.
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Why? My tendency is (not to rationalize!) but to explain the foundation of the anger, naturally without naming names – just generally. (“I feel entitled to be angry because…”) It seems to me that the confessor can help by knowing the context, no?
 
OK… more about the situation… the organist is also a lawyer… she was my divorce lawyer to be specific… she lost me everything except custody of my kids… she got the judge so mad he gave my ex all the kids as tax deductions even though he only wanted 2 of the 3. She lost me my house in the divorce, she lost me child support… oh it was ordered but she never entered the judgement after the case so I can’t get child support… she is a lousy lawyer… The only reason I mention this is the history.

I am now remarried and have survived the poverty and the lack of child support. I work hard on not being angry at her and her incompetence. I thought all was well after I hired her to do my wedding…

We did have a little tiff about my dd not wanting to be in the choir (she is shy) and I told her I didn’t think it was necessary for her to be in it to receive confirmation since she goes to Catholic School, altar serves, does community service… she had her bases covered for the required service work and she learns enough at school.

OK… So the situation with her started the week we got our pastor… at the very first mass I knew there was gonna be a problem. The pastor tried to conceal the look on his face but I caught it… absolute horror at her music selection. New pastor is conservative and young. Last pastor was in his 40’s (so youngish) but was also in the Air National Guard so he was gone all the time and he let people pretty much own their ministries. Anyway… first mass… he is singing the Kyrie… and as soon as it was done she goes right into the happy clappy children’s liturgy Gloria… Father tried to hide his shock and horror… but I saw it. Within 2 weeks she had stopped doing that Gloria… which means he must have said something. We still had a problem with her tendency to “MC” the mass… and we still do… (“Good Morning! I said, GOOD MORNING!” or “Please turn and hug your neighbor, or kiss or whatever you want” or “We will be singing XXXXX on page XX verses 2,3 then 5 and 6… now What verse are we starting on?”) all of this during mass…

OK… that wasn’t bad enough… but Father fired a woman who had been working at our parish for 30 yrs. Why?.. not my business… so the fired woman and the organist started a crusade to get Father replaced… they sent letters to every parishioner, they visited homes and tried to convince people to sign a petition… it was a very ugly scene. I happen to really like our pastor… so when these ladies did things like stand during the homily in protest… it really made me mad. It was really really bad for a while as the fired woman is also an EMHC and to this day I can’t go to her for communion lest I sin thinking about it.

Anyway… the incident with my son happened in the middle of all this… so they seized upon it and are talking about how mean Father was to my son. The incident… my son cut his hair into a mohawk… he was 18 and I wasn’t thrilled but you know… it is just hair and not worth fighting about. So the next Sunday he went up to altar serve and Father asked him not to as to avoid any scandal that might arise from his unorthodox hairstyle. DS was fine with it and even apologized to the pastor for not finding a replacement. Father was worried that he hurt my ds’s feelings and asked dd about it… she told him no he wasn’t upset… and he still fretted about hurting him until I went to him and told him I agreed completely with his decision and so did ds and dh… end of story.

… except the story has now gotten twisted into telling people that the priest is immature and mean for doing this to my son…

Now do you see all the little implications here? I should hate this woman but I pity her even though she annoys me. She is one of those people who think they are too smart to submit to the authority of anyone, let alone God’s Church. I just want it all to stop… stop trying to drag my family into stuff, stop fighting for attention at mass, stop doing everything to make the priest’s life miserable.

Sorry… you asked for clarification… this was kind of an all or nothing kind of thing…
 
Couple thoughts … first, more than anything else, this woman needs to mind her own business. I’m glad to hear you holding your kids accountable for their actions, and respecting authority figures who also do so.

Second, I commend your new pastor for trying to get things back under the pastor’s control and more faithful to the rubrics. I hope he has a good understanding of when to be slow, methodical, and progressive about chaging things, and when he needs to not fear the repercussions and just completely upset the boat.

Perhaps firing this organist might be one of those occassions.

You may wish to schedule an appointment and discuss this with the pastor. Once that is finished, however, you cannot give in to the temptation to be upset with her actions. You’ll just need to trust that the pastor will act appropriately to make it better.

He may be as frustrated as you, and perhaps by venting to him, you’ll give him his own medium upon which he can vent.
 
My knee-jerk reaction is that I’d want to find a different parish, at least as long as she’s on the staff. Sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor.

If you know a particularly discrete and level-headed member of the parish council, you could talk to them about the incidents that concern you. You could also talk to the vicar of clergy for your diocese about your worries, as he would be the one getting complaints about your pastor. Be upfront about the legal history you have with this woman, since your word will be suspect if you seem to be concealing that. (I do not envy those poor priests at the chancery offices, for the minefields they have to navigate. For some of us, purgatory is now, I guess.)

Before you talk to anyone, though, make it clear to yourself what your goals are in talking the matter over with anyone you decide to talk to. It may be that you want to accomplish things that cannot be accomplished–you aren’t going to change this woman, only she can do that–and you can save yourself the trouble by handing yourself over to the serenity of accepting of those things you can’t change.

PS Refering to her failure to enter judgement on your case, you do know that you can sue incompetent attorneys for malpractice, in order to recover damages? If things are as bad as you depict, you might want to contact another attorney about that. You can also inquire with your local the bar association about the matter. Sometimes there is a statute of limitations, so don’t delay.
 
OP and others here are far nicer people than I am. I would have told the woman during the first conversation, that she is intruding on a matter that involves me and my family, that she has no right to breach our confidentiality, and that if she continues to speak to others about this incident I will have to reluctantly consider legal action.
 
Pray for this person and for the patience needed in dealing with her.

Have a Mass said for her.
 
puzzleannie said:
OP and others here are far nicer people than I am. I would have told the woman during the first conversation, that she is intruding on a matter that involves me and my family, that she has no right to breach our confidentiality, and that if she continues to speak to others about this incident I will have to reluctantly consider legal action.
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It is a good idea to be careful about threatening lawyers with lawsuits. That is a job for your lawyer! 😃

Seriously, though, I wouldn’t talk lawsuit to that woman if you put a gun to my head. My attorney would do 100% of that communication. A bad lawyer may not win a case against you, but she could make herself into a royal (and costly) pain in the neck. Hornets’ nests are best left alone.
 
Hi,

Sin? I think you are a saint for acting as you did. It is not healthy to be silent when something needs to be said, You were very respectful in the convent. I think I might have asked this woman to step outside, if she couldn’t keep her mouth shut about your family. I would ask Jesus to help me let go of the past, but to also give me the words I need to keep this woman from hurting me further.

And I think I might speak to the pastor.(in or out of confession) I believe it is being faithful to tell him that a member of his staff is badmouthing him. She definitely should be fired—that is so wrong on so many levels.

Try to confront this woman, if she speaks of of turn again, Tell her that this is not her affair, and she must be still–immediately. The first time will be very difficult, but trust me—it will become easier. If you say something in a direct and firm manner, without being agressive or nasty , she may get the massage. It will also keep you from getting an ulser or high blood presssure.

God bless & guide you.

Lux
 
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