Need advice on family planning

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Araiza_05

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First to those who have not seen my first post. I am a Methodist who married a non practicing Catholic, and I am seriously thinking about converting.
We have two children. To make a long horrible story short we met when I was 20 weeks pregnant with the oldest child and he has raised her as his own child (she is 3) and we have on child together (he is 7 months) Now here is my problem. He was happy with just having the oldest child and really did not want anymore. After a year on the shot Depo I was so miserable I went off of it and was not on any birth control. A year later I became pregnant with my youngest and my husband now said he was completely done with having children. I always wanted at least 4 (ever since I was 17 I wanted 10 children and still do). My mother was so worried over my health problems with my last pregnancy she dose not want me to get pregnant again because she is afraid for my health. Both my mother and my husband have been very firm in insisting I get and stay on the pill. Personally I hate it, and I have always hated any form of hormonal birth control, but I stay on it for love and respect of my mother and husband. The more I have read on this forum the more I realize that deep down sick feeling I get over taking the pill each day is well founded. It is WRONG. My husband had wanted me to get my tubes tied as soon as the first ultrasound of our baby and I told him no. I could not do it, and told him that if he was so dead set on some one getting sterilized he could do it. He acted offended that I suggested that. I think this might be because he was raised Catholic and deep down he feels it is wrong for him but in his mind it is ok for me. I feel like every pill I take is sending me deeper into Hell, but I can’t stop because I am supposed to love and obey my husband. When I try to talk to him he replies no more children and gets mad. I really don’t know what to do. Also for many different reasons I don’t think NFP will be a good fit for us and I am ok with that and personally feel that by breastfeeding I give a natural and healthy spacing between children and welcome any children that God is willing to give me at any time.
 
Where did you get the idea you have to obey your husband? Dear, it’s 2013 and that has never been in Catholic marriage vows. He’s you’re husband, not your father, and you’re not a child.

Never mind, you cannot obey anyone who orders you to sin.

Tell him you will not take anymore pills after X date. If he is so adamant about no more children, then it’s on him. If he truly loves you, he shouldn’t want you to be sick from the side effects, nor should he want you to violate your conscience.
 
I vowed to “love, honor, and obey” out dated I know, but that is what I agreed to. I guess a better word would be submit. I was always taught that wives are to submit to their husbands and the Church submits to Christ.
 
I’d encourage you to keep talking. If he doesn’t want more children ever then hormonal treatment for you doesn’t seem too sensible. He has a simple solution if he never wants more children, but that ought to be a decision you reach together. There are also other temporary options other than the pill which perhaps you should talk through.

I don’t think you should feel you must obey on this - this is something where you both need to listen, and be listened to.

God bless +
 
Araiza_05 said:
I vowed to “love, honor, and obey” out dated I know, but that is what I agreed to. I guess a better word would be submit. I was always taught that wives are to submit to their husbands and the Church submits to Christ.
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:hug1: But we cannot submit or obey someone who tells us to sin. There is no lawful or moral authority if someone tells us to sin. If your husband told you to lie, or steal, or to sleep with someone else you would, tell him that you would not do so, because it was wrong and a sin. To tell someone to sin is not being as Christ is to his Church. The same goes with this issue. I realize that it might be more difficult for you since you might not have grown up with the idea that artificial contraception is a sin. But it is, it is a sin against the 6th commandment (in Catholic numbering schemes). It is a moral and natural law, thus a sin for everyone, not just Catholics.

Remember Christ laid down his life for the Church and promised that the Gates of Hell would never prevail. But your husband right now is not being like Christ, he is not laying his life (his sex life) down for you.

Even without the children issue, he is not respecting your body. The pill makes you not feel well both physically and emotionally, this he should care about. You should look up Natural Family Planning in the mean time. That way you can still decide whether or not you can have children at this time (medical issues and spacing and such), you can protect your body (temple of the living God), and that link between sex and babies becomes clear.
 
jilly4ski said:
:hug1: But we cannot submit or obey someone who tells us to sin. There is no lawful or moral authority if someone tells us to sin. If your husband told you to lie, or steal, or to sleep with someone else you would, tell him that you would not do so, because it was wrong and a sin. To tell someone to sin is not being as Christ is to his Church. The same goes with this issue. I realize that it might be more difficult for you since you might not have grown up with the idea that artificial contraception is a sin. But it is, it is a sin against the 6th commandment (in Catholic numbering schemes). It is a moral and natural law, thus a sin for everyone, not just Catholics.

Remember Christ laid down his life for the Church and promised that the Gates of Hell would never prevail. But your husband right now is not being like Christ, he is not laying his life (his sex life) down for you.

Even without the children issue, he is not respecting your body. The pill makes you not feel well both physically and emotionally, this he should care about. You should look up Natural Family Planning in the mean time. That way you can still decide whether or not you can have children at this time (medical issues and spacing and such), you can protect your body (temple of the living God), and that link between sex and babies becomes clear.
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I agree he is not bring as Christ is the Church but I was unsure if it was ok in this instance to not to. Ya know the whole two wrongs don’t make a right thing. Also due to many different reason NFP is not a reliable method for us. Believe me, i am very knowledgeable about it and i wish it would work for us
 
Just an FYI, breastfeeding to space children is part of NFP.
 
Araiza_05 said:
I vowed to “love, honor, and obey” out dated I know, but that is what I agreed to. I guess a better word would be submit. I was always taught that wives are to submit to their husbands and the Church submits to Christ.
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You must have gotten married in the Methodist church then. I wonder, now that Methodist churches are performing gay wedding ceremonies, which person promises to obey the other?

It’s funny to me how many supposed Christians throw around that verse about women being subordinate to men without reading the other half. The husband is supposed to love his wife as Christ loves the Church, subordinating everything else to her well-being, including his own life. There is another verse elsewhere written by St. Paul that even says spouses are to be subordinate to each other. Funny how the “wife must obey” types forget that one, too.

In any case, he’s ordering you to sin, and for selfish reasons that don’t respect your welfare. That’s not legitimate headship of a family as a Christian man.
 
I’m sorry for belaboring the issue, OP, but do you know that there are different types of NFP that use different fertility signs? Are you sure that there isn’t a method that would work for you?

It has already been pointed out that your husband, although he is the head of the family, has no right to tell you to sin. And your mother definitely has no right to tell you, a grown married woman, what kind of family planning, if any, to use or whether or not to get pregnant again!

From a health standpoint, you also should not take hormonal contraceptives. Not only are they bad for the female body, they are actually making you feel sick. Don’t fight with your husband about it, just tell him that the Pill is making you feel bad and you can’t take it anymore. You also have every right to say that you do not want to have elective surgery done. Again, you don’t have to fight about it; just say firmly, “I am not comfortable having surgery.” After that, whatever he does is up to him.

I have read that it is permissable to submit to intercourse when your spouse insists on using contraceptives as long as you are not actively using them yourself (i.e., it probably wouldn’t be okay for you to get a diaphragm) and in order to preserve the good of the marriage bond. I suggest that you find a good orthodox priest to talk to about this.
 
SlackerCatholic said:
You must have gotten married in the Methodist church then. I wonder, now that Methodist churches are performing gay wedding ceremonies, which person promises to obey the other?
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Ha! I know a lesbian couple who promised to obey each other. I’m not sure how that works out for them.

I think the contemporary American Catholic wedding ceremony is so ugly that when I was planning my wedding, I got permission to use a medieval ceremony. It does include the word “obey” in the bride’s vows, although I asked the priest to leave that one out. Maybe that was not right of me, but I did it the same way Laura Ingalls Wilder did, on the basis that I couldn’t promise to do something I didn’t know if I could do.
 
Just the short and long term physical consequences of hormonal contraceptive use should make a loved one, especially a husband and a mother, not wish that upon you. Maybe they do not know but there are so many negatives for hormonal birth control. They are POISON! Here is a link to all the negatives to all forms of contraceptives (and it’s NOT a Catholic site): myfemininemind.com/2012/07/things-your-doctor-may-not-have-told_25.html
 
SlackerCatholic said:
You must have gotten married in the Methodist church then. I wonder, now that Methodist churches are performing gay wedding ceremonies, which person promises to obey the other?

It’s funny to me how many supposed Christians throw around that verse about women being subordinate to men without reading the other half. The husband is supposed to love his wife as Christ loves the Church, subordinating everything else to her well-being, including his own life. There is another verse elsewhere written by St. Paul that even says spouses are to be subordinate to each other. Funny how the “wife must obey” types forget that one, too.

In any case, he’s ordering you to sin, and for selfish reasons that don’t respect your welfare. That’s not legitimate headship of a family as a Christian man.
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I feel a lot of hostility coming from you. I do not know if you mean it to come off that way but you are. The church in which I am a member of would NEVER preform a same sex ceremony. You comment about the Methodist church is not constructive to my question. It would be like me commenting about priests molesting little boys. Those who do it are wrong and not following God’s plan and should never be used to reflect the rest of a church body. Also I know very well the other half of that particular verse. While I am very aware of how he is supposed to act according to that verse, I was unsure if my responsibility is conditional upon him fulfilling his half of that verse.
 
gmarie21 said:
Just the short and long term physical consequences of hormonal contraceptive use should make a loved one, especially a husband and a mother, not wish that upon you. Maybe they do not know but there are so many negatives for hormonal birth control. They are POISON! Here is a link to all the negatives to all forms of contraceptives (and it’s NOT a Catholic site): myfemininemind.com/2012/07/things-your-doctor-may-not-have-told_25.html
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Thank you very much for that link. My mother is just very worried about my health just like any parent would be. I came very close to death because of my last pregnancy and she is afraid my body will not be able to handle another pregnancy. She feels the risk is not worth it especially since i have two young and wonderful children already.
Also for those who suggest NFP the way I cycle along with a few other personal and medical issues makes charting nearly impossible. Even if I could due to my husband’s work schedule intimate moments are limited and when they do happen I am afraid that his is to caught up in the moment to worry about conception happening at that time even if it was a fertile time. Personally I welcome any children that God sees fit to give us at any time, things might be tight but we can manage.God has provided wonderfully and if I put my faith in him and follow his will he will continue to provide.
 
Apologies, I was wrong.

m.toledoblade.com/Religion/2012/05/12/Methodists-keep-stance-against-gay-marriage.html

There are rogue Methodist ministers performing gay marriages, but they are not reflective of the church’s policy. I wouldn’t say “never” though. I’m sure they’re already planning for the next general conference.

As to hostility, I admit I have little respect for a man who expects his wife to make herself sick and risk early abortions of his own children for his own sexual convenience. But I’ll tone it down.
 
SlackerCatholic said:
Apologies, I was wrong.

m.toledoblade.com/Religion/2012/05/12/Methodists-keep-stance-against-gay-marriage.html

There are rogue Methodist ministers performing gay marriages, but they are not reflective of the church’s policy. I wouldn’t say “never” though. I’m sure they’re already planning for the next general conference.

As to hostility, I admit I have little respect for a man who expects his wife to make herself sick and risk early abortions of his own children for his own sexual convenience. But I’ll tone it down.
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Thank you for your apology. I respectfully ask you to refrain from bringing the Methodist church back into this conversation because one I seriously doubt that Methodist as a whole would ever except same sex marriage and second it has nothing to do with this thread. Thank you.
 
Araiza, I want to apologize for unwittingly contributing to any perceived criticism of your church and your marriage vows with my jocular remarks. The lesbian couple I knew were not “married” in the Methodist church and the vows you took may be widely considered old-fashioned now, but they aren’t inconsistent with Catholicism – all Catholic brides used to promise to obey. They were never expected to sin out of obedience, though, as some Protestant groups expect.

I wish I could help you more with the birth control issue. You’re in a very difficult position and I hope your husband has a change of heart.
 
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