Need advice on giving advice to a buddy in an unhappy marriage

[Dandelion_Wine]

My buddy asked me if we could get together and chat tonite. I have a pretty fair feeling it’s going to be about his marriage.

He married about 5 years ago. Before he got married, he and his now wife discussed children. She doesn’t want any. It appeared before they got married that while she didn’t want any, the topic was still on the table for discussion.

She’s put it in no uncertain terms that she does not want children - whether her own or adopted. She said she’s happy with her life and doesn’t want it to change. He’s 41 and she’s older than him. He’s gone to counseling to help him deal with this.

I think his idea might be if he gets out now, maybe it’s not too late to find someone that wants kids.

What do I tell him?

I remember his wedding day, while they were doing the vows, I wondered whether the priest would mention children. He did and they both agreed or said yes. I remember thinking then “I wonder if this is a valid marriage” because I know she’s not going to change her mind after marriage and suddenly want some. I was even thinking, well if this doesn’t work out, he could probably get his marriage nullified and remarry someone who wants kids.

They don’t go to church regularly as far as I know, so I’m certain he’s not thinking “will the Catholic Church nullify my marriage”. And I can’t know for sure they would either.

Part of me says I should tell him all this. Another part of me says I should find a gentle way of telling him that he made his bed and he should lie in it.

If we were talking divorce here and there were children (and the issue was something else), I’d be 100% behind staying in the marriage unless it was a safety issue for the children.

Angles I’m not looking at or contemplating? opinions?

Thanks.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I feel so sad for people who don’t want children.



Tough situation. Pity she lied, both to him and the priest. If it’s a deal-breaker, it’s a deal-breaker. I don’t agree with divorce but for Catholics, children are a natural outcome of marriage and sexual intimacy between spouses, so…

For a spouse to lie, is a horrible and painful betrayal of the vows.

 

[Luvtosew]

Whats even worst is when one does and the other doesn’t. No no advice from me.

 

[Schieffelin]

This is a really tough one. On the one hand it sounds like he had ample evidence before the wedding to suggest that she might not want kids–and it’s not really fair to abandon her over it when he knew it might be an issue to begin with. On the other hand, there’s are reasons the Church doesn’t let people with this no-child mentality to get married, and you’re witnessing one of those reasons first-hand.

I think if it were me I would just hear him out. Let him do the talking and see where things stand. If the wife is open to any type of negotiation or counseling then you should probably encourage him to go down that path. But if it sounds like she’s never going to budge and he wants out of the marriage, then you could bring up the topic of annulment. I’m surprised you didn’t tell him about this validity issue before he walked down the aisle, but I guess it’s no use talking about that now.

 

[ahs]

That’s really tough. I think the best/safest advice to give him would be to seek marriage counseling (with his wife) and talk to his Priest.

 

[Winter_Warlock_1]

Dandelion,

I take it from your Name that you are a woman. So some advice from a man - be very cautious if he - while talking with you – says something like “I should have married someone like you” or anything that comes across as if he is “testing the waters” as it were. It maybe that he is not like that but. . . .

That being said, he needs to determine what he wants. He either wants to stay married to his wife and not have children or get an annulment remarry and start a family with someone who does wants kids. There are not many other options and talking with a Priest would help him sort out his feelings.

Let him know that he is not alone – that there are other men going through the same dilemma. I am 47 my wife lied to me about wanting kids, giving one excuse after another as to why we could not start having kids until she said that she was too old for kids – that and other things ended our marriage. I am filing for an annulment and I also pray that if it is God’s will – I meet, marry and raise a family.

The thing he really needs to do is talk to a Priest and trust in God

Winter

 

[Dandelion_Wine]

Thanks to everyone who replied.

I did let him talk himself out. My first inclination was to tell him that they BOTH should go to counseling. While he was talking he mentioned that. I stressed that and told him that hopefully counseling will help in some way shape or form.

And thanks for the concern warlock but I’m a dude - I just make dandelion wine on occasion.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

My buddy asked me if we could get together and chat tonite. I have a pretty fair feeling it’s going to be about his marriage.

He married about 5 years ago. Before he got married, he and his now wife discussed children. She doesn’t want any. It appeared before they got married that while she didn’t want any, the topic was still on the table for discussion.

She’s put it in no uncertain terms that she does not want children - whether her own or adopted. She said she’s happy with her life and doesn’t want it to change. He’s 41 and she’s older than him. He’s gone to counseling to help him deal with this…

I see counseling is suggested here in this thread, but you said he has already gone. I do not see why she needs to go since she has now made it PERFECTLY CLEAR she wants a childless life. What is the counselor supposed to do, try to talk her out of that?

IMO, your buddy divorcing and looking for someone who wants children is a great idea. He foolishly married her with the issue unsettled, perhaps he was hopeful it would “all work out”. Now she made it clear she is unyielding in her decision about just how its going to work for the two of them. She also is at fault marrying him when she knew he hoped for children. Since she is now quite sure what she wants- no children - she should find someone to share her life with who shares her goals, whatever they are. Because children are the aim of marriage. Sex without openness to life is just wrong, except in particular cirucmstances. She wants it to be their* always* circumstance, and a life of aimless unfruitful sex is a deprivation that he does not have to accept…

I would also tell your friend that it is grounds for annulment. And more importantly, I would give him a book on Catholic marraige. Ask for some recommends here, something that makes JPII’s documents a little easier to read. Get some suggestions on this forum. You could get him a book. That would be great Evangelization. That might get him back into Church.

God would be his comfort in this difficult time. Even if ending this marraige and is his idea, and the right thing to do, it will still be sorrowful, and God would comfort him. God will also give him wisdom as to easing her transition to independence. Tell him about the Real Presence of Jesus, and encourage him to go for a quiet hour of half hour to Eucharistic Adoration and just sit in His presence.

A suggestion is if he reads on Catholic marraige and decides he wants that, he can propose it to his wife. Maybe she could read it. She might say no. She might be a damaged person. Some people are supposed to be single, and not parents. Who knows. But she could be told about Catholic marraige, and at least then she would see the divide in their goals and would understand his leaving better.

 

[Cristiano]

…So some advice from a man - be very cautious if he - while talking with you – says something like “I should have married someone like you” or anything that comes across as if he is “testing the waters” as it were. It maybe that he is not like that but. . . …

…And thanks for the concern warlock but I’m a dude - I just make dandelion wine on occasion.

Just one more reason to be careful if he says that he should have married someone like you.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

There are things that I just don’t give advice on. I’ll urge someone to see a movie, read a book, or even take a weekend trip somewhere. I won’t advise someone to quit their job, get married, get a divorce, undergo risky medical procedures, or move far away. Those are huge decisions and normally when people are coming to you for advice and talking about them they are extremely vulnerable, and it is too easy for them to let themselves stop thinking for themselves and listen to the advice given because its easier when they are in so much pain, or so scared, or so angry, etc.

Basically what I’m saying is that you shouldn’t give him advice on how to get out, or push him to stay and make the best of it. That’s too much responsibility and it is something that he needs to work through on his own. You can be his sounding board, you can help him figure out his feelings, you can be there for him as he struggles, but giving him advice on something so big when he’s so vulnerable is irresponsible. He will have to deal with the harsh consequences of his choices, not you or anyone else, so he needs to make that decision based on what he wants deep down. Even if it takes him awhile to figure out what that is.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

But he is already having harsh consequences right now: a barren life, with no hope of children, ever. That is not a marriage, when its on-purpose. What she desires is wrong. Should he say, 'Well, I said I do when I had evidence she could decide this, and now she did, and fool that I was, I now must live this immoral life and never obey Gods command to go forth and bear life"?? Well, he wants advice, so I gave it. Of course, he should run it by a good priest, to see what he says. Maybe Dandelion Wine would look into a devout local priest with a reputation for godly Catholic advice.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

But he is already having harsh consequences right now: a barren life, with no hope of children, ever. That is not a marriage, when its on-purpose. What she desires is wrong. Should he say, 'Well, I said I do when I had evidence she could decide this, and now she did, and fool that I was, I now must live this immoral life and never obey Gods command to go forth and bear life"?? Well, he wants advice, so I gave it. Of course, he should run it by a good priest, to see what he says. Maybe Dandelion Wine would look into a devout local priest with a reputation for godly Catholic advice.

Let’s be realistic. His friend is 41 and his wife is older than him. Whether or not they want children at this point may not matter, that door is closing in a hurry. If he does leave her by the time he leaves, the divorce is final, he moves on and is ready to date again, and he gets an annulment (if he would do that) and then meeting someone, dating, falling in love, and getting married, the chances of him ending up someone who is young enough to have kids and still wants them at her age are slim at best.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

Let’s be realistic. His friend is 41 and his wife is older than him. Whether or not they want children at this point may not matter, that door is closing in a hurry. If he does leave her by the time he leaves, the divorce is final, he moves on and is ready to date again, and he gets an annulment (if he would do that) and then meeting someone, dating, falling in love, and getting married, the chances of him ending up someone who is young enough to have kids and still wants them at her age are slim at best.

Good point.

 

[BettyBoop416]

I feel so sad for people who don’t want children.

I feel worse for the children of people who don’t want children but are guilt-ed into having them anyway. Children are very perceptive. They know when they’re not really wanted.