Need advice on this family matter

[CruceSignati]

Hi there, this will probably be a long post, but if you could read the whole thing and reply I would certainly appreciate it.

On Christmas Eve, my family and I went to Mass at a neighboring parish. I should mention here that my family attends Mass every Sunday (not just Christmas and Easter), believe the Church’s teaching on contraception, abortion, etc., and try to raise us kids with decent morals. Anyways, before Mass started the priest announced that he would not be reading the Gospel, but instead, the Sunday School group would be performing a short paegent. I was a little unsure about that, and the eight EMHC’s and five female altar servers accompanied by two altar boys made me unsure further.

The paegent ended up being cute, but I don’t know if playing Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah” in church is appropriate. After that the priest gave a short homily on the importance of standing together as one, big family. During the Our Father he encouraged everyone to hold hands (I know that some of you will say its a liturgical abuse and others will say its not, but I’m just throwing it out there that it happened at this Mass).

What bugged me most was what happened after Mass. On the way home my brother asked if we liked the paegent, and I replied that it was cute but I didn’t think it was appropriate within the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. My mom was a little bit surprised and asked, “Why? They had good intentions.” I replied that the Mass is not meant to entertain us, but to give glory to God; in short, its about God, not us. Then my dad jumped in by saying, “Well I was reading this morning that Pentecostals and Baptists make their services more entertaining, and they don’t have any problems filling seats around Christmas. Maybe the Catholic Church should take a hint from them.”

I didn’t say anything else after that. Dad doesn’t usually say something unless he really means it. I don’t know whether I should say something to him or just keep my mouth shut. He converted almost fourteen years ago, but I don’t know what they taught him in the RCIA class.

Please help me out with this. I don’t know if I’m in the wrong here, or if its something else.

 

[coachdennis]

You made your statement clearly, and your parents responded. What did you expect them to do – stop the car and get on their knees to thank you for being the fount of Catholic truth? (sarcasm intended)

Seriously, there may be an opportunity to have further discussion with your parents since your father is making an observation about what attracts people to churches and what does not. Also, quite frankly it has been my experience that people who go out of their way on these forums to point out that there were female altar services and EMHC are already “prejudiced” to find everything they can wrong with a particular parish and/or Mass.

My first question is if this was not your regular parish, why did you choose this one? From your message it doesn’t sound like you were traveling a far distance from home.

Also, I would ask you not to do what I have seen so many young people in the past couple of days have done on threads here on CAF, where their first kneejerk reaction is to cry “heretic” at everything and anything.

God bless!

 

[Allegra]

Was the pagent basically the children reading/acting out the appropriate Gosple? If so, it would probably be more appropriate than simply a cute Christmas play. Probably still not technically “correct”, but understandable. I don’t think you will get very far with your family if you argue with them about this. It doesn’t sound like they “get it”.

 

[jaimeleglise]

Hi,

I am no expert but, skipping the Gospel and performing a pageant sound very wrong to me.
Female altar servers I believe are permissible in the Novus Ordo. EHMC’s are to be used
when a shortage of priests/deacons administering communion would prolong the Mass
considerably. How long that it is is unknown to me.

I do believe in your theory that the Mass is not created to entertain people. I would think
the Real Prescence of Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, the other
Sacraments including confession, the fact that the Church wrote the Bible, the fact
that we are the original Church that Jesus founded would be enough to attract people.

God bless you as you spread the Truth.

 

[CruceSignati]

My first question is if this was not your regular parish, why did you choose this one? From your message it doesn’t sound like you were traveling a far distance from home. It was the only Mass time that Mom found convenient (she had a turkey to cook the next day).
snip
Also, I would ask you not to do what I have seen so many young people in the past couple of days have done on threads here on CAF, where their first kneejerk reaction is to cry “heretic” at everything and anything. Thank you, and I won’t.

God bless!

Was the pagent basically the children reading/acting out the appropriate Gosple? If so, it would probably be more appropriate than simply a cute Christmas play. Probably still not technically “correct”, but understandable. I don’t think you will get very far with your family if you argue with them about this. It doesn’t sound like they “get it”.

It was a silent play with the kids and a couple of adults acting out the Nativity while the music was being played. I would understand if they had done the play just before or just after Mass, but within the Mass just doesn’t seem right to me.

Hi,

I am no expert but, skipping the Gospel and performing a pageant sound very wrong to me.
Female altar servers I believe are permissible in the Novus Ordo. EHMC’s are to be used
when a shortage of priests/deacons administering communion would prolong the Mass
considerably. How long that it is is unknown to me.

I do believe in your theory that the Mass is not created to entertain people. I would think
the Real Prescence of Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, the other
Sacraments including confession, the fact that the Church wrote the Bible, the fact
that we are the original Church that Jesus founded would be enough to attract people.

God bless you as you spread the Truth.

Thank you.

 

[ClearWater]

Hi there, this will probably be a long post, but if you could read the whole thing and reply I would certainly appreciate it.

On Christmas Eve, my family and I went to Mass at a neighboring parish. I should mention here that my family attends Mass every Sunday (not just Christmas and Easter), believe the Church’s teaching on contraception, abortion, etc., and try to raise us kids with decent morals. Anyways, before Mass started the priest announced that he would not be reading the Gospel, but instead, the Sunday School group would be performing a short paegent. I was a little unsure about that, and the eight EMHC’s and five female altar servers accompanied by two altar boys made me unsure further.

The paegent ended up being cute, but I don’t know if playing Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah” in church is appropriate. After that the priest gave a short homily on the importance of standing together as one, big family. During the Our Father he encouraged everyone to hold hands (I know that some of you will say its a liturgical abuse and others will say its not, but I’m just throwing it out there that it happened at this Mass).

What bugged me most was what happened after Mass. On the way home my brother asked if we liked the paegent, and I replied that it was cute but I didn’t think it was appropriate within the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. My mom was a little bit surprised and asked, “Why? They had good intentions.” I replied that the Mass is not meant to entertain us, but to give glory to God; in short, its about God, not us. Then my dad jumped in by saying, “Well I was reading this morning that Pentecostals and Baptists make their services more entertaining, and they don’t have any problems filling seats around Christmas. Maybe the Catholic Church should take a hint from them.”

I didn’t say anything else after that. Dad doesn’t usually say something unless he really means it. I don’t know whether I should say something to him or just keep my mouth shut. He converted almost fourteen years ago, but I don’t know what they taught him in the RCIA class.

Please help me out with this. I don’t know if I’m in the wrong here, or if its something else.

Oh, no! Not reading gospel…doing a pageant, instead?! Good grief! I’d be upset, too! Oh, my gosh! That’s NOT right! That DOES sound like a case of the gospel getting completely taken out so that a performance could be done! Oh…no!

Yeah, we have a lot of liturgical abuse here, as well. We have priests at different parishes, who, will leave off the homilies…not do them …at all! Different churches also leave off one reading! So, we’ll have 2 readings and a homily. In more than one church, we get one reading, and may, or may not, get a homily! I don’t know why this is done, or not done.

I have gotten to a point I actively seek out churches that adhere more strictly to what is right.

You are correct. It’s a mass, not a performance! The mass and priest are to take center stage, and not be upstaged by children or whomever, however well intentioned.

Further, I realize some other faiths have some other ways of doing things, and even within the Church, we have variation on how things can be done. However, it’s my understanding you are NOT supposed to omit any of the critical items…homily, gospel.

There’s a time and place for everything. This is not about what’s most popular! We should not change the liturgy to make a few “happy”. This is not a social hour. It’s serious business. Seems the priest doesn’t even understand exactly how serious!

You have a right, as a Catholic, to expect certain things from Church. You have a right to expect to hear the gospel! That’s why you go! Everywhere in the world anyone goes, it’s not supposed to change that much.

It shouldn’t matter which country you go to. It is standarized. Your priest is wrong on this.

I’ve never been good at handling these kinds of matters.

Really, that’s enough that somebody should probably be talked to, the priest, that he needs to include the gospel in the mass. Again, I’ve never even tried it. I just generally prefer to quietly leave, go elsewhere.

 

[agnes_therese]

Anyways, before Mass started the priest announced that he would not be reading the Gospel, but instead, the Sunday School group would be performing a short paegent.

We always have a children’s pageant on the last weekend before Christmas, but it does NOT replace the reading of the Gospel. Not reading the Gospel doesn’t sound right to me, but apparently it’s not your parish, so I’m not sure what you want to do about it.

I was a little unsure about that, and the eight EMHC’s and five female altar servers accompanied by two altar boys made me unsure further.

Why? It was probably a big crowd, and there’s nothing here that’s not allowed.

I didn’t say anything else after that. Dad doesn’t usually say something unless he really means it. I don’t know whether I should say something to him or just keep my mouth shut. He converted almost fourteen years ago, but I don’t know what they taught him in the RCIA class.
Please help me out with this. I don’t know if I’m in the wrong here, or if its something else. :

So, your father has an opinion that differs from yours. It happens.

 

[angell1]

Hi there, this will probably be a long post, but if you could read the whole thing and reply I would certainly appreciate it.

On Christmas Eve, my family and I went to Mass at a neighboring parish. I should mention here that my family attends Mass every Sunday (not just Christmas and Easter), believe the Church’s teaching on contraception, abortion, etc., and try to raise us kids with decent morals. Anyways, before Mass started the priest announced that he would not be reading the Gospel, but instead, the Sunday School group would be performing a short paegent. I was a little unsure about that, and the eight EMHC’s and five female altar servers accompanied by two altar boys made me unsure further.

The paegent ended up being cute, but I don’t know if playing Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah” in church is appropriate. After that the priest gave a short homily on the importance of standing together as one, big family. During the Our Father he encouraged everyone to hold hands (I know that some of you will say its a liturgical abuse and others will say its not, but I’m just throwing it out there that it happened at this Mass).

What bugged me most was what happened after Mass. On the way home my brother asked if we liked the paegent, and I replied that it was cute but I didn’t think it was appropriate within the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. My mom was a little bit surprised and asked, “Why? They had good intentions.” I replied that the Mass is not meant to entertain us, but to give glory to God; in short, its about God, not us. Then my dad jumped in by saying, “Well I was reading this morning that Pentecostals and Baptists make their services more entertaining, and they don’t have any problems filling seats around Christmas. Maybe the Catholic Church should take a hint from them.”

I didn’t say anything else after that. Dad doesn’t usually say something unless he really means it. I don’t know whether I should say something to him or just keep my mouth shut. He converted almost fourteen years ago, but I don’t know what they taught him in the RCIA class.

Please help me out with this. I don’t know if I’m in the wrong here, or if its something else.

no, i dont’ think he should have left out the gospel. he could have left out the homily for the pageant though since that portion is not technically part of the mass. i know, the mass is not supposed to be entertainment but perhapes there’a another way to see it? what about thinking of the kids performing for God? we are all performing for God during the mass in some way

 

[St_Francis]

Yeah, what they did at that Mass was the wrong thing to do, but after years of complaining about the errors in our old (previous) church, I have come to realize that the best thing to do, esp if just visiting a church, is to pray for the priest.

And this is what I now (try to remember to ) do to (with my children only) point out all sorts of things that are wrong–oh, the priest made a mistake of xxx, we should pray for him.

Otherwise I just get weird and suspicious and it messes with my spiritual life. I only mention it to my children because I need to teach them; otherwise, I wouldn’t mention it at all!

 

[Wildkit]

On Christmas Eve, my family and I went to Mass at a neighboring parish. I should mention here that my family attends Mass every Sunday (not just Christmas and Easter), believe the Church’s teaching on contraception, abortion, etc., and try to raise us kids with decent morals.

Is there something inappropriate for seeking direction and or understanding by writing to the Bishop?

 

[Sunbreak]

It seems like your parents just gave their opinion about the children performing in Mass. Just take it for what it is and let it go. Yes, the priest should have read the gospel instead of having children act it out, but it won’t get you anywhere to argue with your parents about it. Nothing wrong with female altar servers or EMHCs. I would be concerned about using Leonard Cohen’s Hallelujah too. I hope they only used the melody and didn’t actually sing the lyrics in church.

 

[yellowbird]

As others have stated, a pageant instead of the gospel is very odd. Maybe your parents felt you were being overly critical and wanted to defend the parish… Not what I would do - but I don’t know your family dynamic. Why not have a conversation with your parents - ask them why they disagreed with you? Maybe you’re reading more into it? It seems out of character that Catholics who obey all the rules - mass every Sunday, no contraception etc. wouldn’t raise an eyebrow with what you described despite the parish’s “good intentions.”

Regarding your Dad’s comment about Pentecostals & Baptists being able to fill their seats at Christmas vs. the Catholic Church struggling… I beg to differ. At least where I live, the Church is completely filled at every mass - extra masses, people standing in an overflow room. Many, many former Catholics and non-Catholics come home at Christmas because of the traditional beauty of the mass.

 

[CruceSignati]

As others have stated, a pageant instead of the gospel is very odd. Maybe your parents felt you were being overly critical and wanted to defend the parish… Not what I would do - but I don’t know your family dynamic. Why not have a conversation with your parents - ask them why they disagreed with you? Maybe you’re reading more into it? It seems out of character that Catholics who obey all the rules - mass every Sunday, no contraception etc. wouldn’t raise an eyebrow with what you described despite the parish’s “good intentions.” **Well, here’s the thing. My parents agree with the Church’s teaching on all major issues, but they have no idea about the traditions and rubrics of the Holy Mass. Frankly, they just don’t care most of the time. I am seen as the oddball in the family for wanting to learn more about the Faith. **

Regarding your Dad’s comment about Pentecostals & Baptists being able to fill their seats at Christmas vs. the Catholic Church struggling… I beg to differ. At least where I live, the Church is completely filled at every mass - extra masses, people standing in an overflow room. Many, many former Catholics and non-Catholics come home at Christmas because of the traditional beauty of the mass. **Its good to hear that your parishes have many people attending. Sadly, in my diocese that is not the case. Last fall the bishop had a dozen churches closed for lack of attendance and funds. Also, our diocese has a LOT of C&E Catholics, so my home parish is packed on Christmas Eve and Easter and only half to three quarters full the rest of the year. **

 

[7armyrugrats]

Maybe this was a children’s Mass or Family Mass. Many parishes have those at 5:30 or so on Christmas Eve. Often the kids sing instead of the choir or the Christmas story is performed. I’ve never see it replace the gospel, but I wasn’t there and honestly I’m suspicious about it. It bothers me when people purpously try to find fault in a parish as it seems here is the case. Mentioning the EMHC and female servers as well makes it seem that way to me. Besides, most priests are not going to allow true abuses to occur, certainly not as often as people here on CAF seem to think it does. Just because something isnott our preference doesn’t make it wrong.

 

[Xantippe]

7armyrugrats said:

“Besides, most priests are not going to allow true abuses to occur, certainly not as often as people here on CAF seem to think it does. Just because something isnott our preference doesn’t make it wrong.”

I once saw the Three Little Pigs replace one of the normal readings at a German church we visited. That’s as far out as I’ve ever personally witnessed and it was only the once, but it does tend to stick in the mind.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

OP, I think you should let this pass. It wasnt your home parish or one you attend frequently. Your family has the right priorities - being interested in rubrics is not common or at all required for lay people. Just stick with the play being cute and drop the subject.

Your father’s comment about other denominations is Interesting. Not because he is saying the protestants are good, but because he is worried about attendance at Mass. If you bring anything up again, that’s a conversation worth having - what you all as a devout family can do to encourage mass attendance among friends and acquaintances. But simply ask, don’t dictate.

 

[Xantippe]

Mrs Sally said:

“Your father’s comment about other denominations is Interesting.”

Actually, I think it was kind of weird of him to worry about low attendance at Christmas (??!!). We had another thread this week from a mother of twins who was quite anxious that she was not going to be able to find a seat at Mass for herself and the babies and was wondering about the propriety of seat-saving when there would be so many wanting those seats. Christmas and Christmas Eve Masses in the US are normally so packed out that it can be even somewhat unpleasant to deal with the crowds and wedge yourself in.

 

[lutheran_farmer]

Was it the first service on Christmas Eve? That tends to be the children’s Mass. Therefore, the pageant was much more likely to be understood by children than the homily. Perhaps next year you should make an effort to go to a later Mass.

 

[7armyrugrats]

Mrs Sally said:

“Your father’s comment about other denominations is Interesting.”

Actually, I think it was kind of weird of him to worry about low attendance at Christmas (??!!). We had another thread this week from a mother of twins who was quite anxious that she was not going to be able to find a seat at Mass for herself and the babies and was wondering about the propriety of seat-saving when there would be so many wanting those seats. Christmas and Christmas Eve Masses in the US are normally so packed out that it can be even somewhat unpleasant to deal with the crowds and wedge yourself in.

I think the father was referring to Sunday Mass throughout the year, not specifically to Christmas. But in all honesty, I have never seen any Catholic church in the US packed. And we have been all over the country for Mass. The closest I have seen is First Communion, Confirmation, and sometimes a Baptism. Never for Christmas or Easter.

Was it the first service on Christmas Eve? That tends to be the children’s Mass. Therefore, the pageant was much more likely to be understood by children than the homily. Perhaps next year you should make an effort to go to a later Mass.

Yes, this is what I think as well.

 

[yellowbird]

I think the father was referring to Sunday Mass throughout the year, not specifically to Christmas. But in all honesty, I have never seen any Catholic church in the US packed. And we have been all over the country for Mass. The closest I have seen is First Communion, Confirmation, and sometimes a Baptism. Never for Christmas or Easter.

Yes, this is what I think as well.

In my suburban parish and neighboring parishes, it’s standing room only if we arrive late. Honestly. I tell my kids all the time… hurry up, or we’ll be standing and you know how much I hate that!

Maybe a little bit of a lull in the summer, but I assume that’s because people are on vacation? I attended a Cathedral in Chicago prior to Christmas and it was standing room only.