Need advice regarding my brother

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So, this is something that has been preying on my mind for some time now, and after an incident at Mass at last week, well, I’m really confused as to I should do.

So, my brother, like myself, is a cradle Catholic, but over the years he has become what can best be described as a Catholic of the cafeteria variety. On some matters he is in line with Church teaching: he opposes abortion (and really death in any form), he participates in Lent, etc.

But, there are other aspects of his belief system that concern me. He has openly stated that he doesn’t want to go to Mass any more, and really doesn’t like going on non-Sunday Holy Days of Obligation (last time, I had a hard time convincing him that to knowingly skip one would constitute a mortal sin, and while I don’t think he really believed that was true, he did go). He attends Mass every Sunday with me, though there have been times when he was out of town and, as far as I know, did not even try to attend a Mass where he was.

Also, he supports homosexual “marriage” and sees nothing sinful in homosexuality. He has had arguments with both myself and my parents on this subject, and he has become pretty angry while doing so. He knows the Catholic teaching that this is sinful, but he seems to think this will change in the future. Furthermore, he has stated that with Jesus & the New Testament, the law that homosexuality was sinful was abolished, though I don’t know if he still believes that, simply ignores Church teaching on the matter, or what. There have been times when he has clearly and loudly stated that he’d “rather go to hell than be in Heaven with a God that hates gay people.”

Last week at Mass, after coming back from Communion, little booklets on Catholic voting options were placed out, and when he picked up one and saw the “non-negotiables” on the back, he became vocally (albeit quietly) angry about the homosexual marriage bullet-point. He continued complaining about it after we left, about the separation of Church and state and so on. Knowing how these kind of arguments with him can turn out, I just quietly changed the subject when he asked me if I was mad about it too (looking back, I wish I would have made my standpoint clear, though I thought he knew where I stood on the matter).

So, here’s my dilemma: He still attends Mass with me every Sunday, but he receives Communion, which I find troubling (and he refuses to go to Confession). On one hand, I’m glad he’s at least going to Mass, but then, I don’t want him to eat & drink damnation upon himself. I don’t know if he knows that much of what he believes is considered mortally sinful (he told me “things like murder are mortal sins,” implying that he thinks a mortal sin has to be something decidedly ‘major’ in his book). My fear is that explaining all of this to him will either be redundant, fruitless, or worse yet, drive him from the Church completely. I’m just very confused and worried by the whole matter. And to make things worse, I feel that every time he receives Communion in this state, I’m somehow responsible because I didn’t warn him/stop him/etc.

He’s an adult, and obviously I can’t make him do anything. Frankly, I just don’t know what I can do right now. Should I tell him these things and risk driving him from Mass completely, is prayer my only option, or…? Furthermore, am I out of line in some way here? I just don’t know anymore.
 
Pray for him, that’s about all you can do.

Luckily, calling God in OS about the most powerful thing in the universe you can do 🙂
 
I would say to allow him to be, and say a prayer for him.
 
Has it been explained to him that homesexual acts are sinful to do even if you are straight? It is not really about having SSA, so it’s not like the Church hates people with SSA. The moral demands are the same for everybody, it is just those we struggle with that varies.
 
It is not your responsibility to judge others’ fitness to receive Holy Communion. Pray for him, set a good example.
 
It is not your responsibility to judge others’ fitness to receive Holy Communion. Pray for him, set a good example.
Actually, it’s a spiritual work of mercy to rebuke sinners.

“Judging” means determining where a person goes in the afterlife, which is not what OP is doing.

OP, I may be off base, but it seems like your brother has some anger towards the Church. Do you know why? Perhaps getting to that problem can help.
 
Pray for him, that’s about all you can do.

Luckily, calling God in OS about the most powerful thing in the universe you can do 🙂
I would say to allow him to be, and say a prayer for him.
Can (and will!) do!👍
Has it been explained to him that homesexual acts are sinful to do even if you are straight? It is not really about having SSA, so it’s not like the Church hates people with SSA. The moral demands are the same for everybody, it is just those we struggle with that varies.
I think he knows sex outside of marriage is wrong no matter what (at least I hope he knows that; he tends to have a secular, liberal worldview, so… :confused:). I think his sticking point is more along the lines of “if they love each other, what does it matter if they’re two men/women?”
It is not your responsibility to judge others’ fitness to receive Holy Communion. Pray for him, set a good example.
In my haste to describe the situation, I may very well have come off judgmental. That was not my intention. Trust me, it’s a source of comfort to know that I don’t and can’t know another person’s heart, and that ultimate judgment is God’s alone. That said, when I hear someone promote ideals contrary to Church teaching and then receive, I’m going to be concerned. It’s even more troubling when that person is someone I’m particularly close to.
Actually, it’s a spiritual work of mercy to rebuke sinners.

“Judging” means determining where a person goes in the afterlife, which is not what OP is doing.

OP, I may be off base, but it seems like your brother has some anger towards the Church. Do you know why? Perhaps getting to that problem can help.
He certainly gets angry when the gay issue comes up. Otherwise, it seems (and this is just from my observations) that he simply feels people should do what they want, as long as you’re a good person, church isn’t necessary, etc. etc. For a long time he didn’t believe in hell, though I haven’t heard state that anytime lately. Like I said, he tends to have a liberal, secular worldview. I really couldn’t say why; it’s stuff he picked up from college years ago - he really wasn’t like this prior.

Thanks for help so far everyone!
 
Have you considered that he may be gay himself?
This came to my mind as well. Or he might know of someone who is, and he sees nothing wrong with it. Maybe talk with you priest on how to handle the matter. If your brother keeps bringing it up, tell him as nicely as possible that you don’t agree and you don’t want to argue.
 
For the whole gay issue, have you tried getting him resources of celibate gay/ssa Catholic who agree with church teachings (Ron Belgau, Eve Tushnet, or Courage-related resources come to mind)? That could show him people who an example of people who believe in Church teaching (maybe seem to have more standing to him since they are willfully accepting a most likely celibate life). I also think he might not clearly understand that God doesn’t not hate gay/ssa people, He hates same sex sexual acts. There is a reason the Church takes amble time to make a distinction between the inclination and the actual sexual acts (which isn’t something trivial and that should be just skimmed over). An additional thing that might help is to talk about other Catholic sexual morality teaching like divorce/remarriage and contraception. Talking about that should help him see that within Catholic teaching, sex is reserved for a particular purpose and that its teachings do not single anyone out. Now, he can be upset with maybe pastoral support issues but the teachings are not the problem.

So, the whole confession issue. Have you tried to see if he’d be willing to make an appointment and just speak with a priest for a while? Let him and the priest talk it out and then you could ask him how it went from there? He might need to hear some of the points you’ve made from someone else since you are family (people are like that sometimes)
 
Have you considered that he may be gay himself?
This came to my mind as well. Or he might know of someone who is, and he sees nothing wrong with it. Maybe talk with you priest on how to handle the matter. If your brother keeps bringing it up, tell him as nicely as possible that you don’t agree and you don’t want to argue.
I don’t think he has any SSA himself. He currently has a steady girlfriend, has had steady girlfriends in the past, and hasn’t said anything that would lead me to believe that he has homosexual tendencies. He raves about the girl he’s with, and frankly, I could see him marrying her.

He does however have gay friends, and I think it’s from observing them that he decided there’s nothing wrong it. I think this is solely a moral issue with him, what he sees as discrimination.

He doesn’t tend to bring the issue up out of nowhere, it’s usually only when something related pops upon on TV, or he sees something like the booklet last week at Mass, that he talks about it. Next time he does, I’m just going to have to do what you said Christy, nicely but firmly tell him we’re not going to agree on this. Like I said before, I thought he knew where I stood, but maybe not, or maybe he thought I’d change my mind. I don’t know.
For the whole gay issue, have you tried getting him resources of celibate gay/ssa Catholic who agree with church teachings (Ron Belgau, Eve Tushnet, or Courage-related resources come to mind)? That could show him people who an example of people who believe in Church teaching (maybe seem to have more standing to him since they are willfully accepting a most likely celibate life). I also think he might not clearly understand that God doesn’t not hate gay/ssa people, He hates same sex sexual acts. There is a reason the Church takes amble time to make a distinction between the inclination and the actual sexual acts (which isn’t something trivial and that should be just skimmed over). An additional thing that might help is to talk about other Catholic sexual morality teaching like divorce/remarriage and contraception. Talking about that should help him see that within Catholic teaching, sex is reserved for a particular purpose and that its teachings do not single anyone out. Now, he can be upset with maybe pastoral support issues but the teachings are not the problem.

So, the whole confession issue. Have you tried to see if he’d be willing to make an appointment and just speak with a priest for a while? Let him and the priest talk it out and then you could ask him how it went from there? He might need to hear some of the points you’ve made from someone else since you are family (people are like that sometimes)
Great ideas! I’d have to broach the subject(s) carefully, in the right time and place; I think just throwing it out there wouldn’t help matters. I would LOVE for him to talk to a Priest; I think that would solve a lot of these problems. The trick is getting him to actually agree to something like that. Indeed, he’s driven me to confession before, and waited out in the car while I went in. I suggested he come in too, but he wouldn’t do it. I think like a lot of cafeteria Catholics, he doesn’t see it as necessary.

For the time being, I will continue to pray for him…
 
He certainly gets angry when the gay issue comes up.
Here’s an interesting article from a few years ago by Fr. Peter Daly, pastor of St. John Vianney parish in Prince Frederick, Md., since 1994:
There seem to be two great divides in my parish over issues facing lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people. One divide is generational. The other divide is personal.
The generational divide is the most obvious and clear-cut, but not absolute. Older people are less accepting of LGBT relationships. Younger people see no problem. In fact, younger people often think the church should move beyond mere acceptance to affirmation. The dividing line seems to be about age 50.
This generational divide is radical and serious. For some young people, it determines whether or not they will remain Catholics. One young man left our church over the issue. As the older Catholics die off, the church will find very little acceptance of its current negative position on gay relationships. We will find ourselves culturally marginalized in countries like the United States.
The personal divide is more subtle and harder to quantify. People who know someone in their family or circle of friends who is publicly gay are much more accepting of LGBT people than people who claim they don’t know anyone who is gay. Of course, the fact is, everyone actually does know someone who is gay. They just know that their friend or family member is gay but does not admit it.
Personal experience is important. More and more people are coming out as gay. More and more people will have to accept their relationships. Our younger people nearly always know someone who is out as gay and find it very easy to accept. This is a sea change from a generation ago.
ncronline.org/blogs/parish-diary/what-our-parish-does-about-gay-relationships

I think that the Church’s stance on homosexuality which I admit is unlikely to change is nevertheless driving a lot of younger Catholics away. I don’t know what the solution is to this “great divide” that Fr. Daly mentions.
 
I wondered if I should talk to my brothers about refraining from Holy Communion. It would probably be better for them to miss Mass than to receive in a state of mortal sin…
I never really made a point of it with them, has anyone had any luck with talking to someone in that situation?
The first one ended badly, the second one was OK in the end,(I talked to him more than any of them but it didn’t seem to help at the time.) the 3rd one hasn’t played out yet, and the fourth is probably going to be a stinking disaster.

I would be very interested if someone had luck and what they said.
 
I don’t think he has any SSA himself. He currently has a steady girlfriend, has had steady girlfriends in the past, and hasn’t said anything that would lead me to believe that he has homosexual tendencies. He raves about the girl he’s with, and frankly, I could see him marrying her.

He does however have gay friends, and I think it’s from observing them that he decided there’s nothing wrong it. I think this is solely a moral issue with him, what he sees as discrimination.

He doesn’t tend to bring the issue up out of nowhere, it’s usually only when something related pops upon on TV, or he sees something like the booklet last week at Mass, that he talks about it. Next time he does, I’m just going to have to do what you said Christy, nicely but firmly tell him we’re not going to agree on this. Like I said before, I thought he knew where I stood, but maybe not, or maybe he thought I’d change my mind. I don’t know.

Great ideas! I’d have to broach the subject(s) carefully, in the right time and place; I think just throwing it out there wouldn’t help matters. I would LOVE for him to talk to a Priest; I think that would solve a lot of these problems. The trick is getting him to actually agree to something like that. Indeed, he’s driven me to confession before, and waited out in the car while I went in. I suggested he come in too, but he wouldn’t do it. I think like a lot of cafeteria Catholics, he doesn’t see it as necessary.

For the time being, I will continue to pray for him…
The closest thing I had to this situation was when I was in the Army and had a homosexual roommate. She knew I was a Christian and didn’t approve of her lifestyle, but I also didn’t make it into a big deal. I disapproved, and that was that. I think she later came around because I was able to care about her as a person loved by God. Pray for your brother, and know that my prayers are joined with yours.
 
Here’s an interesting article from a few years ago by Fr. Peter Daly, pastor of St. John Vianney parish in Prince Frederick, Md., since 1994:

ncronline.org/blogs/parish-diary/what-our-parish-does-about-gay-relationships

I think that the Church’s stance on homosexuality which I admit is unlikely to change is nevertheless driving a lot of younger Catholics away. I don’t know what the solution is to this “great divide” that Fr. Daly mentions.
Just thought I would let you know, I’m 24 and I’m not going anywhere.

If the Church were to do a 180 and change something that completely contradicts that which has been upheld and taught about marriage and sexuality for over 2,000 years, it would only serve to convince me that it was untrue and therefore would drive me away before anything else.

It’s no different to divorce, anyone not in the grips of it themselves can clearly see the couple saying before God “Till death do us part” and then when they remarry they will say the exact same lines “Till death do us part” “For better or worse” etc

The Church does and should keep doing it’s best to reach out and show compassion and mercy for all of those who are divorced and remarried, however, if it ever contradicts the sacrament by no longer upholding the indissolubility of marriage, it’s game over.

I believe it’s no different with same sex marriage. The solution to the great divide, is that anyone who does not find themselves caught in the ‘grips’ of it, can clearly see that the sexual acts of homosexuality means to use the bodies organs in a manner in which they are not designed to be used.

A non biased scientist, will soon discover, that the way the reproductive system works, our sexual organs are designed to be used a certain way and that the sexual acts of homosexuality are in error and contrary to the organs design and proper function.

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
  • G.K. Chesterton
I hope this has helped

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
In fact, younger people often think the church should move beyond mere acceptance to affirmation.
I also think this is a good point, as when one cannot win by reason, they will move straight on to the victory and loudly declare it a victory, so that it’s no longer about which side is right or wrong, but rather about whether you want to be on the winning side or the losing side, irrelevant of who is right or wrong.
 
The Church does and should keep doing it’s best to reach out and show compassion and mercy for all of those who are divorced and remarried, however, if it ever contradicts the sacrament by no longer upholding the indissolubility of marriage, it’s game over.

I believe it’s no different with same sex marriage. The solution to the great divide, is that anyone who does not find themselves caught in the ‘grips’ of it, can clearly see that the sexual acts of homosexuality means to use the bodies organs in a manner in which they are not designed to be used.

A non biased scientist, will soon discover, that the way the reproductive system works, our sexual organs are designed to be used a certain way and that the sexual acts of homosexuality are in error and contrary to the organs design and proper function.

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
  • G.K. Chesterton
Spot on, thank you!
 
Here’s an interesting article from a few years ago by Fr. Peter Daly, pastor of St. John Vianney parish in Prince Frederick, Md., since 1994:

ncronline.org/blogs/parish-diary/what-our-parish-does-about-gay-relationships

I think that the Church’s stance on homosexuality which I admit is unlikely to change is nevertheless driving a lot of younger Catholics away. I don’t know what the solution is to this “great divide” that Fr. Daly mentions.
Thank you for that article. It describes the situation perfectly.
I wondered if I should talk to my brothers about refraining from Holy Communion. It would probably be better for them to miss Mass than to receive in a state of mortal sin…
I’ve pondered that myself. On one hand, the Sunday obligation is being met and there’s the chance something said at the Mass will ‘sink in.’ But on the other, receiving the Eucharist is not to be taken lightly, by any of us. To me, it doesn’t seem like there’s a clear-cut answer here. Place it in God’s hands, I guess.
The closest thing I had to this situation was when I was in the Army and had a homosexual roommate. She knew I was a Christian and didn’t approve of her lifestyle, but I also didn’t make it into a big deal. I disapproved, and that was that. I think she later came around because I was able to care about her as a person loved by God. Pray for your brother, and know that my prayers are joined with yours.
Thank you very, very much!
The Church does and should keep doing it’s best to reach out and show compassion and mercy for all of those who are divorced and remarried, however, if it ever contradicts the sacrament by no longer upholding the indissolubility of marriage, it’s game over.

I believe it’s no different with same sex marriage. The solution to the great divide, is that anyone who does not find themselves caught in the ‘grips’ of it, can clearly see that the sexual acts of homosexuality means to use the bodies organs in a manner in which they are not designed to be used.

A non biased scientist, will soon discover, that the way the reproductive system works, our sexual organs are designed to be used a certain way and that the sexual acts of homosexuality are in error and contrary to the organs design and proper function.

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
  • G.K. Chesterton
Spot on! Thank you!
 
Spot on! Thank you!
Thank you. 🙂
Thank you for that article. It describes the situation perfectly.
😦

I don’t believe so.

Unless you mean It describes the situation perfectly that society is in? and in that case I agree with you. As I believe there is major problems in it and I take issue with nearly every single paragraph.

I hope someone is able to report this to the local bishop to correct him as he is leading people astray with articles like this. It’s heresy 😦

ncronline.org/blogs/parish-diary/what-our-parish-does-about-gay-relationships

This article is in opposition to the Catholic Church.
Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen 'Love is not tolerance':
Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.

It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin.

The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench its hatred of the evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth.

It forgives the sinner, and it hates the sin; it is unmerciful to the error in his mind.

The sinner it will always take back into the bosom of the Mystical Body; but his lie will never be taken into the treasury of His Wisdom.
Jesus to Catalina:
The Great Crusade of Mercy - loveandmercy.org/Eng-CM-Reg.pdf
(Roman Catholic Imprimatur)

Love is gentleness, strength, and humble graces, for love keeps guard alertly over all the senses. Love is chaste and sensible through the union of its faithfulness. Love is prudent, valiant, patient, suffering, and enduring. I am Love.
Please pray for this priest with me if you get a chance.

I hope this has helped

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
😦

I don’t believe so.

Unless you mean It describes the situation perfectly that society is in? and in that case I agree with you.
I was referring to my brother and how he comes across on this issue, though it does seem to describe much of society in general.
 
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