Need Advice - Should We Change Parishes?

[voice_of_truth]

This thread is actually related to and serves as a follow-up to my previous thread from Jul 9, '07, 4:38 pm titled “HELP - NEW Pastor Problems”

After many months of prayer and discernment, my family and I are now leaning towards changing parishes. I am not generally one to give up on a situation, no matter how bad it seems. In fact, I am generally an optimist at heart and a fighter for what I believe is right. However, in this case I am feeling more compelled to “give up” on the situation at our parish as the efforts we’ve put forth to keep things going are not bearing much fruit and are beginning to take a toll on my family’s well being and spirit.

Our new (not so new now) Pastor has effectively eliminated the programs at our parish that are so important to me and my family. Those programs are LifeTeen, CRHP, and pretty much anything that deals with the Spiritual gifts. I am not really associated with the Charismatic Movement, although I don’t necessarily have a problem with it. IMHO, I just find that programs that pay some attention to the workings of the Holy Spirit in our lives as Catholic Christians really enhances our relationship with God. I’ve seen these programs impact hundreds of lives for the positive and honestly think our Pastor is making a big mistake in eliminating them.

We (many many parishioners) have voiced our concerns to him both in letter and in person, but our concerns have apparently fallen on deaf ears, or at least on unsympathetic ears.

FYI, to give you a basic idea of our Pastor’s personality to maybe help you understand him a little better, he is verging on the anti-social. He has a difficult time looking you in the eye while he talks to you. He says he likes watching police shows because he likes seeing justice served. He took a (?) year sabbatical during which he served as a parole officer. He does not stay after Mass to talk to people. He says the reason he doesn’t participate in many activities after Mass is that he gets very tired after 3 Masses on Sunday and needs to go home to rest. He is in his mid-50’s. He doesn’t usually bless the children when they come up for a blessing at Communion (I’ve seen him do it a few times). Positives are … He does like to teach adult classes in catechism. He is strong on tradition. He brought the tabernacle back into the main sanctuary. He brought back the Acolytes. He brought back the priestly cleaning of the Eucharistic utensils after Communion. He brought back the bells at the consecration.

Back to the main point …

Our Pastor has given us some explanation on the program cancellations. He thinks those programs concentrate too much on the emotions. He says that faith is a decision, not a feeling. He says that people are changed one at a time, not in groups. He does not like what he terms, “unbridled enthusiasm”. He mentions fears that people involved in some of those programs will become a separate church within the church causing division. He says that there is danger in those programs that will cause people to know God in the good times but fail to know Him in the bad times. He wants his parishioners to understand why they are Catholic and not to rely on feeling good to come to Church. He says we are not at Mass for community, we are at Mass to worship only. He says we should focus Christ, not on our music or on our emotions during Mass.

OK, all of those seem to be valid arguments for his position. However, IMHO, they are only valid arguments at the superficial level. They all sound pretty good on the surface, but are they completely and thoroughly accurate and true? I agree that there is some truth in each one. But they do seem to assume too much and omit some important clarifications. It just seems to me that he is focusing on the negatives and fails to see the positives in those programs. Why can’t those programs co-exist with a traditional, reverent, and spiritual Catholic Church?

OK, now for the main question. What would be your advice to a Catholic wanting to be obedient to the Church and it’s leaders but at the same time wants to be enriched and involved in a parish that offers these programs? Should we change parishes to one that fits our expectations and desires? Or, should we stick it out where we are as a sign of submission to the Church? What do you feel God would tell you as advice for me?

FYI, we are very involved in our church and have many friends there. Unfortunately, many have decided to leave due to the circumstances with our Pastor. We are still there, if only barely. The one difficulty we have now is that when we attend Mass celebrated by our Pastor (as opposed to the Associate Pastor) we have some noted trouble fully concentrating on Christ in the Eucharist because we are dealing with some internal anger and must constantly focus on forgiving our Pastor. That makes attending Mass difficult. Recently, due to these negative feelings, we’ve started attending Mass at another parish.

I thank you in advance for any advice you may give as I feel it may be God speaking to me through you as I discern His will for me and my family.

God Bless you!

 

[Nephra]

Our new (not so new now) Pastor has effectively eliminated …] LifeTeen, CRHP, and pretty much anything that deals with the Spiritual gifts.

Sounds like my kind of pastor. My parish is teeming with all that nonsense, and I long for the day that such programs are banned by the Vatican.

Any chance we could swap pastors?

He says the reason he doesn’t participate in many activities after Mass is that he gets very tired after 3 Masses on Sunday and needs to go home to rest. He is in his mid-50’s.

He is a priest. His purpose is to distribute the sacraments, not to be a social entertainer. Having to celebrate 3 masses is a lot for a middle aged man.

He does like to teach adult classes in catechism. He is strong on tradition. He brought the tabernacle back into the main sanctuary. He brought back the Acolytes. He brought back the priestly cleaning of the Eucharistic utensils after Communion. He brought back the bells at the consecration.

I look to you with fraternal envy. You are really quite blessed to have a priest who actually obeys Vatican directives.

Should we change parishes to one that fits our expectations and desires?

You are free to go to whatever parish you want. I will not even try to comprehend why you would want to leave your current one though. It sounds like a havan of stability and orthodoxy.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

This thread is actually related to and serves as a follow-up to my previous thread from Jul 9, '07, 4:38 pm titled “HELP - NEW Pastor Problems”

FYI, to give you a basic idea of our Pastor’s personality to maybe help you understand him a little better, he is verging on the anti-social. He has a difficult time looking you in the eye while he talks to you. He says he likes watching police shows because he likes seeing justice served. He took a (?) year sabbatical during which he served as a parole officer. He does not stay after Mass to talk to people. He says the reason he doesn’t participate in many activities after Mass is that he gets very tired after 3 Masses on Sunday and needs to go home to rest. He is in his mid-50’s. He doesn’t usually bless the children when they come up for a blessing at Communion (I’ve seen him do it a few times). Positives are … He does like to teach adult classes in catechism. He is strong on tradition. He brought the tabernacle back into the main sanctuary. He brought back the Acolytes. He brought back the priestly cleaning of the Eucharistic utensils after Communion. He brought back the bells at the consecration.

Back to the main point …

Our Pastor has given us some explanation on the program cancellations. He thinks those programs concentrate too much on the emotions. He says that faith is a decision, not a feeling. He says that people are changed one at a time, not in groups. He does not like what he terms, “unbridled enthusiasm”. He mentions fears that people involved in some of those programs will become a separate church within the church causing division. He says that there is danger in those programs that will cause people to know God in the good times but fail to know Him in the bad times. He wants his parishioners to understand why they are Catholic and not to rely on feeling good to come to Church. He says we are not at Mass for community, we are at Mass to worship only. He says we should focus Christ, not on our music or on our emotions during Mass.

Send him here we could really use him.

 

[jc-servant]

Wow! I’m praying for you and your parish. Your new pastor seems to be trying to rein in what he sees as problems, but he may have gone a little extreme. I would not leave my parish family over one anti-social pastor. You might be able to wait him out if you are in a metro area. Our priests get rotated around the diocese. There is also the possibility that he will slowly soften his approach.

What did your pastor leave you? Choir, ushers, Bible study?

I cannot believe that he killed your CRHP program! I went through CRHP and found that some people were very emotional during witnesses because they finally faced things that had been holding them back from truly living their faith. This does not mean that the whole thing was based on emotions. Some of us get emotional during mass and adoration (which was a big part of the CRHP retreat), but I would not say that either thing is about our emotions. If we gained nothing but the support of other faithful Catholic women (or men) to help us in our lives, then I would say that CRHP was a worthy endeavor.

Many women prayed their first group Rosary or did their first adoration before the Blessed Sacrament in our CRHP retreats. We had a few who made their first confessions in many years on that initial weekend. I cannot imagine where they would be spiritually at this point if that journey had not been taken.

We received CRHP by getting a deacon who had been through one of the earliest retreats back in Ohio decades ago. My team is investigating taking a CRHP road team to Nigeria this year to the parish of a priest who visited us for a year. Thankfully, our pastors have been very supportive as they participate and see the wonderful fruits borne for the parish.

Oh, I forgot to say that had my faith and my Catholic support system not been bolstered by my CRHP team that I don’t know if I could have made it through the last 2 years. I have been tested sorely.

My mother died of cancer last year. I was chronically ill at the same time that she was fighing cancer. I finally had major surgery that took me off work for months where I could not really care for myself. My CRHP sisters prayed, cooked, cleaned, listened, sent me Bible verses, drove me to mass, etc. Not once did my parish priest, a deacon or even a member of our ministry to the sick call or visit. I was on the list of prayers for the sick, so my situation was no secret. I’m not angry about it, but I think that especially in a larger parish the priests and staff need major help from organized groups of lay people.

 

[dzenmarek]

Your pastor has to celebrate three masses and he’s really tired? Too tired to greet parishioners? At only 52 years old, or there-abouts?

My husband gets up at 4 AM to be at work for 5:15 AM. He works at the clinic till 3:00PM and then goes to work at either his private practice or his 3rd job (he is a counselor). Today he got home from work early at 7PM. Normally he gets home at around 8:30 PM-- a long day starting at 5:15 AM. He is out picking up our 5th child from a school activity right now. (8:50 PM). My husband is 62 years old.

Tired? Yup. Too tired to care for his family? Nope.

 

[Darrel]

I’ll take hyper-rational over hyper-emotional any day of the week. I’m very blessed to have Pastors in my parish who kind of fall right in the middle.

If I was the OP I would be cautious not to throw out the baby with the bath water. The Mass alone is far greater then any program.

-D

 

[jc-servant]

Your pastor has to celebrate three masses and he’s really tired? Too tired to greet parishioners? At only 52 years old, or there-abouts?

Exactly. Our previous pastor (in his 60’s) took the time to greet people after mass even when he was jaundiced as his liver failed and he was in his final illness. He only stopped when he could not stand for that long a couple of weeks before he died!

Our current pastor did his best to greet and be available even when his back was aching and his bum knee was giving out. He finally had surgery on the knee, but I know his back still hurts at times. He does not run off immediately after mass even if he must be brief.

 

[Walking_Home]

Your pastor has to celebrate three masses and he’s really tired? Too tired to greet parishioners? At only 52 years old, or there-abouts?

My husband gets up at 4 AM to be at work for 5:15 AM. He works at the clinic till 3:00PM and then goes to work at either his private practice or his 3rd job (he is a counselor). Today he got home from work early at 7PM. Normally he gets home at around 8:30 PM-- a long day starting at 5:15 AM. He is out picking up our 5th child from a school activity right now. (8:50 PM). My husband is 62 years old.

Tired? Yup. Too tired to care for his family? Nope.

---

The priest cares for his parish family by offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass – and makes it possible for our Lord to be present on the Altar —from which we receive our Lord’s Body and Blood. This priestly ability far surpasses any form of human achievement.

 

[NoPlaceLikeRome]

Sounds like a fine pastor to me, except the parole-officer sabbatical (??). I don’t know anything about CRHP, though.

Our chaplain heads out after Mass, but then, he’s there for four hours or so, saying two Masses and hearing Confessions before each one, so if I were him I would probably want to go home and eat something too.

Maybe you could ask about starting a volunteer group to go to homeless shelters, or a pro-life group, if you don’t already have those? Or a catechism study group–my friends’ parish has a good one, but it’s all laymen.

 

[water]

I don’t know anything about CRHP, though.

CHRP = Christ Renew His Parish.

We have this at our parish. About every six month, we have this retreat. Those who attended this retreat before might be part of what they call “formation”. Prior to the next retreat, this formation group will study scripture, share their faith journey together. When it comes closed to the date of the next retreat, we pray to discern what we would do for the next retreat: some will be faith witness who would share their faith journey to the new people who will be attending this next retreat. Some will help organize the retreat.

I went to the retreat few weeks ago, and it was one of turning point of my faith. I was so down and discouraged few days before attending the retreat. When attending, those witnesses of faith have lift me up, give me hope and opened my eyes.

The best part is the formation, it is like a mini retreat - we learn the scriptures and share our faith together. It helps us develop our Christ-love for each others.

It is a great program.

 

[Vittorio23]

Don’t leave you parish, even if you don’t personally agree with the current actions of your new pastor. It is his initiative, as pastor, to run the parish the way he sees fit and the way that he thinks will ultimately help the parish the most.

Although, I can understand your difficulty. My suggestion would be this: stay with your parish and perhaps get involved with some of the still-existing programs. But, if you’re really looking for one of the programs that you once had, perhaps participate in those programs at a neighboring parish.

It sounds like your pastor has a clear head on him-- at least he’s been willing to give you reasons for his changes. It’s not as though he’s completely gotten rid of everything without any reason whatsoever. You may not completely agree with his views, but you’ll find that many do.

Either way, I wouldn’t quite call this situation extreme enough to need to switch parishes. Sometimes it’s a great opportunity to grow in the virtue of humility to simply comply with obedience, even when you may personally disagree with your superior, so long as that obedience is not in direct violation of God’s commandments.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

After many months of prayer and discernment, my family and I are now leaning towards changing parishes. I am not generally one to give up on a situation, no matter how bad it seems. In fact, I am generally an optimist at heart and a fighter for what I believe is right. However, in this case I am feeling more compelled to “give up” on the situation at our parish as the efforts we’ve put forth to keep things going are not bearing much fruit and are beginning to take a toll on my family’s well being and spirit.

I think you sum things up well. You’re not jumping into a decision and it’s one you’re making prayerfully. A situation that harms your family’s spirit is a serious one.

I really feel for you in this situation because I faced the same thing a couple of years ago. A new pastor came in and began to destroy everything I loved about the parish. The problem was that I also loved the community of that parish and leaving the pastor meant also leaving the people. Ultimately I decided that being around that man was spiritually harmful and I went looking for a new parish home.

There are people who are satisfied with going to Mass on Sunday and having no further connection with the parish. They probably don’t care much who the pastor is. For others, though, the pastor has a huge influence. You may be able to survive one who is a neutral influence. But one who sucks away your spiritual life is to be avoided.

The only thing I can suggest to you is to pray – which you’re already doing – and then to make a decision one way or the other.

For myself, I left a bad situation and moved to a new parish. It’s not the same as the old one, but then I didn’t expect it to be. I’ve gotten involved in activities that are important to me and I’ve met people. Being in my new parish is proof that God has blessed me mightily.

 

[benedictgal]

First of all, I would have to commend your pastor in his efforts to try to restore orthodoxy to your parish. That is something that has been sorely lacking in many communities.

Please don’t take this to sound harsh. Unfortunately, many groups and many individuals have been intoxicated with the so-called “spirit” of Vatican II, reading into things rather than what the documents actually said.

The most important activity that your parish community does is to gather together for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. If you are blessed with a parish where little to no liturgical abuses have occurred, then, you are in a place where many of us would like to be.

As far as LifeTeen is concerned, perhaps you may not be aware that, as noble an idea as this concept seems to be, many liturgical abuses have cropped up during these liturgies. They have also been very problematic as far as the music is concerned, so much so that the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist noted that the music used at these “youth Masses” was one of the shadows that needed addressing.

Chris Renews His Parish is one other group that I view with some suspicion. I strongly believe that true renewal comes when the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is put at the front and center and properly celebrated. Remember that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the source and summit of our life as the Church. Everything flows from the Mass. That is where the true outpouring of the Holy Spirit comes. It is the living water that Jesus alluded to during his conversation with the Samaritan woman.

Your pastor sounds a lot like my PV (parochial vicar). I am lucky to have him in my parish and to count him as my friend, as well. When he served as pastor of the cathedral, he pretty much had to clean house, removing the chaff from the wheat. The charismatic group was rather upset and accused him of not having the Holy Spirit. I was rather appalled with their comments and told them that, first of all, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit at Confirmation. My friend, as a priest, receives a unique outpouring of the Holy Spirit by virtue of his ordination. Their caustic attitude really bothered me and caused me doubt the validity of their movement.

You might want to seriously re-think your decision. From what you’ve posted, it doesn’t sound like it’s a totally bad thing. The Church, as the Holy Father has reminded us on many occasions, stands in need of purification. Maybe this is what your pastor is trying to do.

As far as his being tired after three Masses, that is actually understandable. My PV used to celebrate six a weekend, not counting all of those weddings. It takes a lot of energy to celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The priest has to also preach and pray that his words will convey the Gospel message and perhaps convert cold and stony hearts into hearts of flesh and love. If he is putting more emphasis on the proper celebration of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass instead of creating some feel-good, want to teach the world to sing, sort of community, then, he is heading in the right direction.

That is something, in my opinion, that should be seen as a welcome sign of relief and a symbol of true renewal for your parish.

 

[palmas85]

I don’t really see a problem with the Pastor as you describe him. The programs that he has eliminated have in many parishes caused great disruptions. Not saying they did in your parish but they have in many. I know there are examples of these programs that are good and orthodox, but in reality the bad ones outnumber the good.

It sounds to me like your Pastor is trying to re-establish the proper relationship between the laity and the clergy which has been hopelessly and maybe irrevocably blurred in many areas.

As far as the Pastors actions the cancellation or curtailment of programs that are totally optional to begin with are certainly well within the purview of the Pastor. The Pastor is responsible for the spiritual well being and growth of those in his Parish/ If he feels those programs don’t aid in that area and may in fact hinder true spiritual growth and development he should drop them. The facts you presented below

FYI, to give you a basic idea of our Pastor’s personality to maybe help you understand him a little better, he is verging on the anti-social. He has a difficult time looking you in the eye while he talks to you. He says he likes watching police shows because he likes seeing justice served. He took a (?) year sabbatical during which he served as a parole officer. He does not stay after Mass to talk to people. He says the reason he doesn’t participate in many activities after Mass is that he gets very tired after 3 Masses on Sunday and needs to go home to rest. He is in his mid-50’s. He doesn’t usually bless the children when they come up for a blessing at Communion

Really have no bearing on his ability to be an effective Priest and look to me to be personality traits that you personally are opposed to more than anything else. Your later statement about your inner anger and focusing on forgiving the Pastor rather than paying attention at Mass make no sense at all. What has the Pastor done that you haven’t told us about that requires your forgiveness?

Because as I see it he has done absolutely nothing wrong in what you have presented to us here today.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

There are people who are satisfied with going to Mass on Sunday and having no further connection with the parish. They probably don’t care much who the pastor is. For others, though, the pastor has a huge influence. You may be able to survive one who is a neutral influence. But one who sucks away your spiritual life is to be avoided.

This seems to paint with far too broad a brush for my liking. It would seem just as easy, for instance, to say “there are people who don’t care whether the faith is properly preached or the sacraments properly celebrated so long as the pastor shakes their hand afterwards and there are get-togethers every couple of nights.” Just as that doesn’t do justice to the OP’s position, I don’t think your “Mass only” characterization does justice to those who would advise to stay in the parish.

I think what is really at stake here is not “spiritual life” but “preferred spirituality.” The pastor seems to be more focused on nourishing the understanding of faith and corporate life of faith (the sacramental life of the parish) whereas the OP is more focused on nourishing the subjective experience of the faith, especially by fostering programs perceived to bring individuals into a closer relationship with Christ and the Spirit. If what were being offered under both focuses, though, were indeed still good, quality programming (especially as it seems the pastor has truly improved the liturgy and the parish’s rootedness in Catholic tradition, I think this is defensible), then you can’t call substituting one for the other “sucking away your spiritual life.” If you like to nourish yourself with pork and potatoes and then I come in with chicken and rice, I haven’t done anything to harm you. You may feel you have lost a dietary staple, but what I have given you is just as healthy.

In this case, it doesn’t seem that the pastor has done anything harmful. The case could be made that for every program he eliminates he should try to install a new (presumably better) one in its place, but the programs he has eliminated are indeed programs that have long been controversial and thus been of questionable merit.

That said, one is free to nourish one’s relationship with God according to whatever good (and preferably explicitly approved) means he feels best, so if this pastor, who seems to be generally exemplary, is not able to meet your perceived needs, you needn’t continue to worship in that parish. Just be advised that your parish is determined by geography (see other threads on the issue), so if you have any children looking to get married while still generally residing at home (this usually holds true through college) the geographic pastor is the one who must be consulted.

Short version: I see no reason to leave the parish, as the pastor seems to have done only good, in my opinion, but there’s nothing stopping you if you want to go somewhere else.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

This seems to paint with far too broad a brush for my liking. It would seem just as easy, for instance, to say “there are people who don’t care whether the faith is properly preached or the sacraments properly celebrated so long as the pastor shakes their hand afterwards and there are get-togethers every couple of nights.” Just as that doesn’t do justice to the OP’s position, I don’t think your “Mass only” characterization does justice to those who would advise to stay in the parish.

Perhaps. What I know is my own experience where I felt completely dead and empty based on what the new pastor was doing and other people said “so what? He says Mass on Sunday, what else do you need?” If my spiritual life were limited to going to Mass on Sunday I suppose I would agree with them.

 

[voice_of_truth]

First, I would like to thank all who have responded so far. I am listening intently to you all and to God right now. I realize I have an important decision to make. I have children and want to demonstrate to them how an adult makes decisions using Godly wisdom. They are in training right now and my wife and I have a God-given responsibility to lead them to the Truth. I will be the first to admit that I do not know it all. I must rely on others who have traveled before me to help guide my path.

I did not put everything in my new thread because there was a lot in my previous thread from back in July 2007 when I first asked for guidance on how to address issues with our then new Pastor. But suffice it to say for now (without repeating all that) that things have been in a constant state of change at our parish since the arrival of our newly assigned Pastor.

I am not saying that I disagree with all the changes. A lot of them have been great as well as necessary! I love the fact that our new Pastor has a strong focus on orthodox Catholic practices. But unfortunately, there are a lot of negatives that go along with those positives. I realize things will not be perfect, but I do know that they could be a lot better.

One concern of mine that I failed to mention that is of utmost importance to me and my family is the precipitous decline in our youth program since the arrival of our new Pastor. The main reason is that I have children involved in the youth program. As I mentioned previously, we used to have a LifeTeen program and it was VERY dynamic. We did not participate in any of those sometimes mentioned liturgical abuses associated with LifeTeen. Our program was fairly conservative. We did have some of the more modern praise and worship music during our LifeTeen Mass which is now unfortunately gone. I do realize there are many of you out there who would totally agree with riding the Mass of any semblance of modern music. However, I feel that tastefully done, some of the modern music can definitely fit within the Mass. Also, if you observe churches where there is a vibrant youth program, music is a huge part of their success. I do not intend to take anything away from the primary focus of the Mass which is the Eucharist. I just know that teens resonate with certain types of music better than others. The complete package of music, liturgy, and the Eucharist gets teens to WANT to come to Mass. Trust me, I see a huge difference in the before and after effects of taking teen-friendly music away. Teen attendance at our parish is way down.

You may say that we didn’t catechize them well enough. Not true. We actually did when we had the complete LifeTeen program in action where we had LifeNight (the teaching part of LifeTeen) right after the LifeTeen Mass. They had a tremendous love for Christ in the Eucharist and got to understand the Sacraments and the Catholic faith very well. But their faith is still very immature. Now, so many have gone to other parishes where there is more teen-friendly music and a better youth program. They have told me that our parish has gotten too dull and boring. That really concerns me because I am on the core team of volunteers that work closely with the youth at our parish. It seems that we are really fighting a losing battle. Of course we reach some but not near as many as we used to. That is my biggest frustration.

The next biggest frustration is the cancellation of CRHP (Christ Renews His Parish) by our new Pastor. This decision really makes no logical sense to me at all. CRHP actually helps renew parishioners to want to participate in the very things our Pastor wants us to focus on. I think that decision is VERY unwise. I was the Lay Director for one of the CRHP teams and I must say that it was one of the highlights of my Christian life. I personally witnessed dozens of people rid themselves of personal burdens by experiencing God’s love and forgiveness. These people had true conversions and returned full communion with the Catholic Church. CRHP is an extremely effective evangelization program. I HIGHLY recommend it! In fact, it is one of the best adult formation programs I have ever seen.

Now, so many of my CRHP brothers and sisters are hurt and confused. They are wondering what could be wrong with this wonderful program. Our Pastor makes it sound bad. They ask, “How can something that produces such good fruit be bad?” I do not have an answer for them and our Pastor has not “effectively” addressed it yet either.

Finally, the fact that our shepherd is scattering the flock concerns me GREATLY! See Ezek 34:1-10. I personally think there may be diabolical power at work here. Throw in just enough good to mask the bad maybe? This is the crux of my discernment. As a father, I am responsible for the spiritual safety of my family.

God Bless!

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

…I just know that teens resonate with certain types of music better than others. The complete package of music, liturgy, and the Eucharist gets teens to WANT to come to Mass. Trust me, I see a huge difference in the before and after effects of taking teen-friendly music away. Teen attendance at our parish is way down.

You may say that we didn’t catechize them well enough. Not true. We actually did when we had the complete LifeTeen program in action where we had LifeNight (the teaching part of LifeTeen) right after the LifeTeen Mass. They had a tremendous love for Christ in the Eucharist and got to understand the Sacraments and the Catholic faith very well. But their faith is still very immature. Now, so many have gone to other parishes where there is more teen-friendly music and a better youth program. They have told me that our parish has gotten too dull and boring. That really concerns me because I am on the core team of volunteers that work closely with the youth at our parish. It seems that we are really fighting a losing battle. Of course we reach some but not near as many as we used to. That is my biggest frustration.

Well, the teens aren’t showing up because you got them “interested” by using music which the Church believes doesn’t belong in the liturgy to begin with. I know you disagree, but your post seems to fall right into the pastor’s criticism. If the teens only want to go to Mass where it isn’t “dull” or “boring,” then it seems he may be on to something in criticizing the existing program for focusing too much on emotions (the teens are looking for “exciting” worship).

You think LifeTeen is valuable, and so if people leave because the pastor cancels it the fault lies with him. But if LifeTeen is a questionable or flawed approach (which many would argue) then the fault for the “scattering of the flock” would fall upon those who would leave to find a more exciting Mass. At the end of the day, though, perhaps both ways are good in different respects, in which case…

…once again, I’ll say that this is really about preferences. You have a particular spirituality that you want to see fostered through particular programs, and accordingly feel that real spiritual damage has been done if those programs are removed. But certainly you can see that your particular spirituality is not for everyone. Your “loss” could easily be another’s gain in that respect. Say your parish had been fostering a Franciscan and Carmelite spirituality - these are not for everyone, and couldn’t possibly be ideal for the full parish community. If a new pastor came in and shifted the focus to elements of Dominican and Jesuit spirituality, this would have the same weakness but need not be any less good and certainly need not be diabolical.

 

[palmas85]

First, I would like to thank all who have responded so far. I am listening intently to you all and to God right now. I realize I have an important decision to make. I have children and want to demonstrate to them how an adult makes decisions using Godly wisdom. They are in training right now and my wife and I have a God-given responsibility to lead them to the Truth. I will be the first to admit that I do not know it all. I must rely on others who have traveled before me to help guide my path.

I am not saying that I disagree with all the changes. A lot of them have been great as well as necessary! I love the fact that our new Pastor has a strong focus on orthodox Catholic practices. But unfortunately, there are a lot of negatives that go along with those positives. I realize things will not be perfect, but I do know that they could be a lot better.

One concern of mine that I failed to mention that is of utmost importance to me and my family is the precipitous decline in our youth program since the arrival of our new Pastor. The main reason is that I have children involved in the youth program. As I mentioned previously, we used to have a LifeTeen program and it was VERY dynamic. We did not participate in any of those sometimes mentioned liturgical abuses associated with LifeTeen. Our program was fairly conservative. We did have some of the more modern praise and worship music during our LifeTeen Mass which is now unfortunately gone. I do realize there are many of you out there who would totally agree with riding the Mass of any semblance of modern music. However, I feel that tastefully done, some of the modern music can definitely fit within the Mass. Also, if you observe churches where there is a vibrant youth program, music is a huge part of their success. I do not intend to take anything away from the primary focus of the Mass which is the Eucharist. I just know that teens resonate with certain types of music better than others. The complete package of music, liturgy, and the Eucharist gets teens to WANT to come to Mass. Trust me, I see a huge difference in the before and after effects of taking teen-friendly music away. Teen attendance at our parish is way down.

You may say that we didn’t catechize them well enough. Not true. We actually did when we had the complete LifeTeen program in action where we had LifeNight (the teaching part of LifeTeen) right after the LifeTeen Mass. They had a tremendous love for Christ in the Eucharist and got to understand the Sacraments and the Catholic faith very well. But their faith is still very immature. Now, so many have gone to other parishes where there is more teen-friendly music and a better youth program. They have told me that our parish has gotten too dull and boring. That really concerns me because I am on the core team of volunteers that work closely with the youth at our parish. It seems that we are really fighting a losing battle. Of course we reach some but not near as many as we used to. That is my biggest frustration.

The next biggest frustration is the cancellation of CRHP (Christ Renews His Parish) by our new Pastor. This decision really makes no logical sense to me at all. CRHP actually helps renew parishioners to want to participate in the very things our Pastor wants us to focus on. I think that decision is VERY unwise. I was the Lay Director for one of the CRHP teams and I must say that it was one of the highlights of my Christian life. I personally witnessed dozens of people rid themselves of personal burdens by experiencing God’s love and forgiveness. These people had true conversions and returned full communion with the Catholic Church. CRHP is an extremely effective evangelization program. I HIGHLY recommend it! In fact, it is one of the best adult formation programs I have ever seen.

Now, so many of my CRHP brothers and sisters are hurt and confused. They are wondering what could be wrong with this wonderful program. Our Pastor makes it sound bad. They ask, “How can something that produces such good fruit be bad?” I do not have an answer for them and our Pastor has not “effectively” addressed it yet either.

Finally, the fact that our shepherd is scattering the flock concerns me GREATLY! See Ezek 34:1-10. I personally think there may be diabolical power at work here. Throw in just enough good to mask the bad maybe? This is the crux of my discernment. As a father, I am responsible for the spiritual safety of my family.

God Bless!

If the youth were properly catechized as you claim, they would not be going to Mass mainly for the music as it appears that they do from your post. Their statement that the Mass has become dull and boring, to me indicates quite strongly that they have NOT been catechized properly if at all.

In fact, your post demonstrates exactly what the problems with these programs are, namely. 1) people often come to the program for the programs sake, not for the sake of the Church. If the music that is being played is one of their principal concerns then they are truly in a state of ignorance about the faith, the Mass and most specifically what the Mass truly is and 2) those involved in running the programs come to think of themselves as important essential elements of the faith itself. Why look at us and how important and essential we are.

Your opinion about CRHP makes sense now that we know you were one of the lay directors of the program. Of course you didn’t want it to go away, it gave you validation and made you feel special. It made you feel like you were more than just another run of the mill parishner.

No my friend, this last post of yours does put things in the proper perspective indeed. I think I can see now why the Pastor did what he did and am more convinced than ever that he did the right thing.

 

[Nephra]

One concern of mine that I failed to mention that is of utmost importance to me and my family is the precipitous decline in our youth program since the arrival of our new Pastor.

The problem with many of these ‘youth programs’ you refer to is that they often incorporate unorthodox and charismatic elements. I recommend you offer youth cathechism as an alternative to Lifeteen.

As I mentioned previously, we used to have a LifeTeen program and it was VERY dynamic.

Since when was liturgy supposed to be dynamic?

We did have some of the more modern praise and worship music during our LifeTeen Mass which is now unfortunately gone. I do realize there are many of you out there who would totally agree with riding the Mass of any semblance of modern music.

Indeed. As the Second Vatican Council states in its Constitution on the Liturgy, Gregorian Chant is “the chant especially suited to the Roman liturgy”. “Praise and worship” music is totally unbefitting the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

They have told me that our parish has gotten too dull and boring.

“Dull and boring” is how they describe the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? If they expect mass to be “fun” then obviously they weren’t catechised well.

I personally think there may be diabolical power at work here.

This is an exaggeration of extreme proportions.