Need Advice - Should We Change Parishes?

[benedictgal]

Your post hit me like a ton of bricks! It is so obvious that I didn’t even think of it. It has been suggested to me in the past that I need to get a Spiritual Director. However, I pretty much just ignored all of those promptings due my tendencies to want to fix everything myself. I have a fairly decent prayer life. But I do believe God is calling me to a deeper relationship with Him and a good Spiritual Director would definitely help me discern God’s will and choose the right path for my faith journey and life mission. I thank God for using you to speak to me today. THANKS and God Bless!!!

I concur with my fellow Texan. It would be best to approach a priest who is doctrinally sound and is objective. They make the best kind of spiritual directors.

Inasmuch as I probably sounded harsh, please know that I speak from personal experience and what I wrote is what a priest friend of mine told me when he was guiding me through a tough time.

You need to pull back and examine things, and ask yourself some hard questions. The Jesus of the Gospels wasn’t a feel-good phantom (as Pope Benedict writes in his book, On the Way to Jesus Christ); he is demanding and challenging. To want to deepen your relationship with God is a good thing; however, always strive to do this with the Church. Some of what you may hear may not be something you want to face or agree with, but, the light of the truth serves to purify.

 

[voice_of_truth]

Something in the tone of your posts leads me to believe that perhaps you are trying to desperately hold on to something and make it more important than the Church.

If I put across that tone it was totally accidental. I really do love Christ and His Church more than any program that could ever dream of existing. I may have gotten a little too emotionally attached to the programs I mentioned. But I seriously do believe in them because of the fruit that I’ve seen come from them. It just really saddens me to see those programs that have touched so many lives get cancelled. I truly believe those programs are gifts from God (if rightly done obviously) and should be encouraged where possible, especially where they are successful.

Is it God who is calling me, or am I listening to another voice who may be telling me that if it’s not my way, I’ll leave?.

Not a chance of that happening. I’ve been seeking God on this for a long time. It’s just recently that CRHP was cancelled though that precipitated my current thread. I’ve come to the point that I really desire to hear God’s voice on this. If I were just listening to myself and let my pride get in the way, I would have left long ago. I do not rush into anything. God is always a big part of my decisions, especially the important ones like this one.

I highlighted your statements because you seem to make yourself the focus of the argument here. While what you have been doing is a noble effort, you need to pull back and ask yourself: for what reasons am I doing this?

My sole reason for praying and discerning about this whole situation is for the spiritual well-being of my family and those that I love. I am a servant of our Lord. I am also a fierce warrior in His army and will not let anything harm the souls of God’s people if it is anywhere close to my realm of influence. That is why I want to be certain that I make the right decision. This is huge to me and I do not take it lightly at all.

Of course, I do appreciate your candidness. And I do listen to the criticisms as well and take them to heart. I am in constant need of correction and try to improve where I am weak. Some of my statements about our Pastor may have been a little out of line and accusatory in nature. I pray for God’s forgiveness if I have sinned in any way.

Thanks for your response!

God Bless!!!

 

[Scottgun]

Actually it is perfectly acceptable for her to go to mass at whatever parish she wants. I drive 30 miles outside my parish every Sunday to go to one that has the Tridentine Mass.

True. But this isn’t just about attending Mass, it’s about changing membership. This is basically asking if it is ok to vote with the feet and leave both mass and community for what seem to be inadequet reasons if I am reading correctly. I’m appealing not to the explicit rules about parish membership and attending mass, but rather the unwritten Don’t-Pretend-You-Are-Not-Doing-What-You-Are rule.

 

[mdgspencer]

You have a right to be at any parish. It is your decision alone.
It seems to me that this involves a difference in personalities and spiritualities. The priest isn’t involved in wrong-doing.
If you haven’t been doing so, you should start praying about what would be best for you. I wouldn’t try to say what this is.

 

[otjm]

Sounds like my kind of pastor. My parish is teeming with all that nonsense, and I long for the day that such programs are banned by the Vatican.

Oh, most certainly. We certainly would not like to be similar to those two fellows who met Christ on the road to Emmaus: “Were not our hearts burning with fire?”

A priest’s primary job is not “distributing sacraments”. It is evangelization; he is there specifically to “go forth and preach the Good News” Notice how this command preceeds the command to baptize?

I look to you with fraternal envy. You are really quite blessed to have a priest who actually obeys Vatican directives.

and what does that have to do with legitimate programs that bring people closer to Christ? Or have you forgotten that Christ said the two great commandments were to love god with your whole heart, soul and mind (notice the mention of heart?), and second, to love your neighbor as yourself.

You are free to go to whatever parish you want. I will not even try to comprehend why you would want to leave your current one though. It sounds like a havan of stability and orthodoxy.

Aagin, you seem to presume that being on fire with love of God is not orthodxy.

[/QUOTE]

 

[otjm]

I’ll take hyper-rational over hyper-emotional any day of the week. I’m very blessed to have Pastors in my parish who kind of fall right in the middle.

Where did anyone say anything about hyper emotional?

 

[benedictgal]

A priest’s primary job is not “distributing sacraments”. It is evangelization; he is there specifically to “go forth and preach the Good News” Notice how this command preceeds the command to baptize?

and what does that have to do with legitimate programs that bring people closer to Christ? Or have you forgotten that Christ said the two great commandments were to love god with your whole heart, soul and mind (notice the mention of heart?), and second, to love your neighbor as yourself.

Aagin, you seem to presume that being on fire with love of God is not orthodxy.

First of all, the most important duty a priest has is to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. That is what he is ordained to do. It is a point that Redemptionis Sacramentum brings up:

30.] The office “that belongs to Priests in particular in the celebration of the Eucharist” is a great one, "for it is their responsibility to preside at the Eucharist in persona Christi and to provide a witness to and a service of communion not only for the community directly taking part in the celebration, but also for the universal Church, which is always brought into play within the context of the Eucharist. It must be lamented that, especially in the years following the post-Conciliar liturgical reform, as a result of a misguided sense of creativity and adaptation, there have been a number of abuses which have been a source of suffering for many".70

[31.] In keeping with the solemn promises that they have made in the rite of Sacred Ordination and renewed each year in the Mass of the Chrism, let Priests celebrate “devoutly and faithfully the mysteries of Christ for the praise of God and the sanctification of the Christian people, according to the tradition of the Church, especially in the Eucharistic Sacrifice and in the Sacrament of Reconciliation”.71 They ought not to detract from the profound meaning of their own ministry by corrupting the liturgical celebration either through alteration or omission, or through arbitrary additions.72 For as Saint Ambrose said, “It is not in herself … but in us that the Church is injured. Let us take care so that our own failure may not cause injury to the Church”.73 Let the Church of God not be injured, then, by Priests who have so solemnly dedicated themselves to the ministry. Indeed, under the Bishop’s authority let them faithfully seek to prevent others as well from committing this type of distortion.

[32.] “Let the Parish Priest strive so that the Most Holy Eucharist will be the center of the parish congregation of the faithful; let him work to ensure that Christ’s faithful are nourished through the devout celebration of the Sacraments, and in particular, that they frequently approach the Most Holy Eucharist and the Sacrament of Penance; let him strive, furthermore, to ensure that the faithful are encouraged to offer prayers in their families as well, and to participate consciously and actively in the Sacred Liturgy, which the Parish Priest, under the authority of the diocesan Bishop, is bound to regulate and supervise in his parish lest abuses occur”.74 Although it is appropriate that he should be assisted in the effective preparation of the liturgical celebrations by various members of Christ’s faithful, he nevertheless must not cede to them in any way those things that are proper to his own office.

If you can, make an effort to attend your diocese’s Chrism Mass, wherein the Bishop concelebrates this liturgy with his priests. Their promises, which they renew at this Mass, center on their fidelity to the celebration of the Holy Sacrifice.

Furthermore, lest we forget that the Second Vatican Council’s Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy states that the Mass is the source and summit of the Church’s life. Therefore, the Mass is the most important prayer of the Church and it is the most important activity that we do. Everything else flows from the Mass.

The ecclesial movements are good facets of the Church, but, they are not the end all and be all. They are not essential to our salvation, but, if done properly, they can certainly be of great assistance.

 

[voice_of_truth]

First of all, the most important duty a priest has is to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. That is what he is ordained to do. It is a point that Redemptionis Sacramentum brings up.

Thank you for mentioning “Redemptionis Sacramentum” which lead me to find the “http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia” website which contains a wealth of information on the Catholic Church.

Redemptionis Sacramentum deals primarily with the Eucharist and therefore does mention this exceedingly important responsibility of the priest.

But there is so much more to the office of the priesthood. I do not intend in any way to diminish or take away the importance of the priestly responsibility to make available the Eucharist to the community and the Universal Church. But there is so much more.

Please take a look at the following document located on that same website.

“CONGREGATION FOR THE CLERGY. THE PRIEST, PASTOR AND LEADER OF THE PARISH COMMUNITY. INSTRUCTION”

I’m still praying and now looking for a Spiritual Director. This is a real growing experience for me!

God bless you!

 

[otjm]

First of all, the most important duty a priest has is to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. That is what he is ordained to do. It is a point that Redemptionis Sacramentum brings up:

If you can, make an effort to attend your diocese’s Chrism Mass, wherein the Bishop concelebrates this liturgy with his priests. Their promises, which they renew at this Mass, center on their fidelity to the celebration of the Holy Sacrifice.

Furthermore, lest we forget that the Second Vatican Council’s Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy states that the Mass is the source and summit of the Church’s life. Therefore, the Mass is the most important prayer of the Church and it is the most important activity that we do. Everything else flows from the Mass.

The ecclesial movements are good facets of the Church, but, they are not the end all and be all. They are not essential to our salvation, but, if done properly, they can certainly be of great assistance.

Your answer is somewhat non-responsive to my post. Priests are ordained to assist their bishop, as the bishop is not able to carry out his functions entirely alone. Their first call is not to be a dispenser of sacraments, their first call is to evangelize. That the Mass is the sum and summit of the Church I have no question about. The Mass is perfect evangelization, in case you didn’t notice.

I have attended probably every one of the last 15 chrism Masses as I have been involved with RCIA that long. I am well aware of what it is about.

I made no suggestion that ecclesial movements are anything but a help in the road to salvation. Nor do I make any suggestions that they are an end all or a be all. I suggest that they are legitimate means of assisting people in the growth of their faith.

The pastor the OP refers to seems to be much more inclined to the rational, and although we are limited only to the OP’s observations, seems to almost indicate a fear of anything that might involve the emotional. I do not suggest that emotional should drive our faith, or be the basis of our faith. I do suggest that an emotional response to what we are taught can be the spark that causes faith to grow, and grow tremendously.

I have attended both Cursillo and Emmaeus retreats; I know the impact they have had on me, and I have seen the impact they have had on others who have attended those retreats. I have seen people move from Sunday morning bench warmers to people who “get it”; they are on fire for Christ. they sort of scare those who take a rational approach to faith, and seem to want to quantify everything, to approach all as if it were simply a matter of logical arguement: QED, and there is your certified, stamped on the forehead and permanently marked on the soul Catholic Christian.

Christianity is a bit more than apologetics; that is not to denigrate apologetics, but it is not the sum and summit of faith expression either. I am sorry that the pastor cannot seem to find a way to incoporate his approach into what else had been going on in the parish, rather than simply incoporating his approach and canceling others.

He is not there to simply say Mass and hear confessions, do amarriage and a baptism and anoint the sick. He is there to lead others to Christ first and foremost. To say that he is simply there to “do” sacraments is to buy into the liberal denigration of priesthood. I do not suggest that you would hold such a postion; but I don’t think you understood what I was responding to.

 

[joseph_virgen]

even priests have particular gifts. not two priests are identical. in our family priests and nuns abound. some are better administrators while others are wonderful story tellers. certain are spiritually enhanced while others are theology bound.

in the majority they are often placed where each particular gift can be maximized.

it bodes well to understand the particular priest one has in place, and in doing just that perhaps you will understand why the Holy Spirit has sent him to you.

as to what you should do , pray on it. it will be given unto you.

 

[LeroyCRHP]

I’ll say a prayer for you Voice of truth. I went through CRHP on team 61 and experienced dramatic change. My faith, my love of Mass, my ability to go to reconciliation, and generally my desire to help others would not be there without CRHP. I would call our church alive and energized. People are always there and always helping others. CRHP, teen programs, RCIA, pre-Cana, are all programs to help people. We could be stuck with masses in Latin still, instead we have Spanish mass, teen mass on Sunday night, and one priest at our church is starting a latin mass again

I think you are welcome to attend church where wish and get the most out of.

The church does have Seven Sacraments
Baptism
Penance/Reconciliation
Eucharist
Confirmation
Matrimony
Holy Orders
Extremunction or Anointing of the Sick

 

[aloysiusg]

OK, now for the main question. What would be your advice to a Catholic wanting to be obedient to the Church and it’s leaders but at the same time wants to be enriched and involved in a parish that offers these programs? Should we change parishes to one that fits our expectations and desires? Or, should we stick it out where we are as a sign of submission to the Church? What do you feel God would tell you as advice for me?

Simply put OP, you are perfectly within your right to go to whichever parish you want. My in-laws go to a parish in a whole other town 15 miles away because they like how that pastor and that parish run things better than the one in their town. This is not publich school where you have to go to the school in your neighborhood, you can choose your parish.

As to whether you should or not, that is a checks and balances you have to gauge yourself. What are the pros and cons of leaving/staying? Are the firends you have at your old parish a stronger pull than wanting to experience the programs to seem to offer some spiritual fulfillment. Only you can make that call.

As for judging the actions of the Pastor - he is doing what he feels is in the best interests of his parish. It is a tough job and a tough call to make, and while you can express your opinions to him about his decisions, it is not a democracy and in the end, if you choose to stay there, you must accept gracefully the changes he has implemented. If going to mass is harboring resentment on your part, then maybe you need to change parishes, at least until a time when your emotions do not negate your spiritual fulfillment of the mass.

 

[japhy]

CRHP, teen programs, RCIA, pre-Cana, are all programs to help people. We could be stuck with masses in Latin still, instead we have Spanish mass, teen mass on Sunday night, and one priest at our church is starting a latin mass again

Um, Mass in Latin can help people too.