Need advice

[Belle10]

Hey everyone

I need some advice. (just a warning: this is a bit long )

DH and I are planning to have some friends over for a little “dinner party” sometime soon. This couple is engaged, and DH and the guy have been great friends since high school. Our friend’s sister is a lesbian, and she and her “partner” have a baby. DH (a carpenter) did some work at their home so he’s met them. Our friend suggested that they come to for dinner too and bring their daughter who is almost the same age as our DD so they can play.

Here’s my issue: I do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle, I absolutely trust and believe in the teachings of the Church on this issue. DH doesn’t agree with the homosexual lifestyle either, but he’s not Catholic so that doesn’t factor into his thinking on it. So, I’m not sure if we should have them for dinner. I know it’s probably silly, but I just don’t feel comfortable, as if having them for dinner at our home “says” that I am OK with how they live, which I am not. Also, I’m concerned about our DD – she’s only 2 so obviously wouldn’t understand it, but I worry about it anyway.

Then I think that we should have them over, because maybe I can be a witness. I don’t really think anything I say will change them, but you never know how God might choose to use us…

Then I think it would be wrong not to have them over. We’re having our friends over, despite the fact they are not married yet and are living together (in my mind though, even though I know this is not right, it doesn’t seem as intrinsically disordered as the homosexual lifestyle does, KWIM?).

So, any advice? Am I being overly concerned about this? It’s not as if we’re already friends with these people – we could just have our friends over, which is what I would prefer. I don’t want to hurt our friends’ feelings (regarding his sister) but I don’t want to compromise my faith either.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I find it strange that anyone invited to dinner at your house would suggest an invitation list to you. That’s rather rude, no?

 

[Belle10]

I find it strange that anyone invited to dinner at your house would suggest an invitation list to you. That’s rather rude, no?

Well, as I said, it a very good friend of ours…and since DH always talks about DD and our friend always talks about his niece, I think that’s why it came up.

Do you have any advice one way or the other?

 

[iamrefreshed]

Well, as I said, it a very good friend of ours…and since DH always talks about DD and our friend always talks about his niece, I think that’s why it came up.

Do you have any advice one way or the other?

Yes. Sharing a meal is not condoning their lifestyle.

Now if they invited you to their ‘wedding’ that would be a different story.

 

[Belle10]

Yes. Sharing a meal is not condoning their lifestyle.

Now if they invited you to their ‘wedding’ that would be a different story.

Thanks. If invited to their “wedding” I would certainly not go – that’s quite obvious to me, and for some reason easier to make a decision on than dinner, you know?

Hoping for additional comments from people who have perhaps been in similar situations too.

 

[Belle10]

I guess I’ve been over-thinking this issue. I’m not getting any passionate responses on not having them over for dinner, so I’m guessing it’s OK. I was just having a gut-reaction that it would be uncomfortable for me…but maybe I was just being scrupulous or something.

 

[newf]

Belle, I think you are completely justified NOT inviting these people over. The fact that you feel uneasy about it is enough of a reason. You have a young child, you don’t want to bring this IN your home.

OTOH, there are other people who wouldn’t have an issue with it. That is fine for THEM. But they are not you. And it is okay for you to be protective of your home and your child by not having this situation in your home.

Personally, I would not have entertained a couple like this when my children were younger. But now my children are adults and I am older and I am in a better place to handle a gay couple with a child.

To everything there is a season…

 

[JustAnotherThou]

It has just been a couple hours since you posted your original question, give it time and I am sure you would have your passionate answers

Personally, I would just say to your friends, “we were just hoping for a quite dinner with the both of you”. I also believe if they are your “friends”, you should be able to share with them your faith. If they have a problem with it are they really your friends? I would also be asking them when they are getting married!!!

 

[savienu]

Personally, I see nothing wrong with having them over for dinner. Jesus ate and drank with sinners all the time, remember. In fact, not allowing them over because of their lifestyle will do nothing to bring them closer to God, and, take it from someone who’s BTDT, it will be more apt to make them turn further, because, whether or not this is true, (and I don’t believe it is), they will think of you as “just another ignorant christian.”

Witness to them. Show them God’s love. Invite them into your home.

 

[Belle10]

Belle, I think you are completely justified NOT inviting these people over. The fact that you feel uneasy about it is enough of a reason. You have a young child, you don’t want to bring this IN your home.

Thanks for your insight – like I said, my initial gut reaction was that I didn’t feel comfortable inviting them over.

It has just been a couple hours since you posted your original question, give it time and I am sure you would have your passionate answers

That’s true. Guess I’m a little impatient!

Personally, I would just say to your friends, “we were just hoping for a quite dinner with the both of you”. I also believe if they are your “friends”, you should be able to share with them your faith. If they have a problem with it are they really your friends? I would also be asking them when they are getting married!!!

Yes, I was thinking I could say that. They do have a date set for their wedding. They may hire me to make their invitations, so I can even say I wanted to discuss that stuff too…

Personally, I see nothing wrong with having them over for dinner. Jesus ate and drank with sinners all the time, remember. In fact, not allowing them over because of their lifestyle will do nothing to bring them closer to God, and, take it from someone who’s BTDT, it will be more apt to make them turn further, because, whether or not this is true, (and I don’t believe it is), they will think of you as “just another ignorant christian.”

Witness to them. Show them God’s love. Invite them into your home.

I agree, and that’s why I’m having a tough time making this decision. They asked about having Easter with us (we’re having Easter dinner Sunday with DH’s family, but getting together with these friends possibly Saturday), so I see it as a great opportunity to talk about Jesus and Good Friday, Easter Mass, and everything! I just don’t know what to do…

 

[JustAnotherThou]

Personally, I see nothing wrong with having them over for dinner. Jesus ate and drank with sinners all the time, remember. In fact, not allowing them over because of their lifestyle will do nothing to bring them closer to God, and, take it from someone who’s BTDT, it will be more apt to make them turn further, because, whether or not this is true, (and I don’t believe it is), they will think of you as “just another ignorant christian.”

Witness to them. Show them God’s love. Invite them into your home.

OK, now I agree with you. Although, I am not one who likes people inviting others to my dinner parties, so I would probably tell them “I was hoping to just have a quite dinner party with the 4 of us, how about we make plans to invite them next time so I will have more time to prepare.” (or something like that)

 

[Sina]

I would have them over for dinner. I have a gay couple I have dinners with too. BUT… although I trust the Church’s teaching on homosexuality being wrong, I am of the more Liberal mind where I think we focus too much on this sin and not on others (like co-habitation that you brought up).

I think you have it right that you can still be friends with and share good times with them, but going to their wedding is probably not good. They already know what you believe anyways right? So you certainly aren’t condoning anything.

 

[catherineajt]

OK, now I agree with you. Although, I am not one who likes people inviting others to my dinner parties, so I would probably tell them “I was hoping to just have a quite dinner party with the 4 of us, how about we make plans to invite them next time so I will have more time to prepare.” (or something like that)

This is the way I would go. I also dislike invited guests trying to invite somebody else along; it seems rude to me.

 

[Belle10]

OK, now I agree with you. Although, I am not one who likes people inviting others to my dinner parties, so I would probably tell them “I was hoping to just have a quite dinner party with the 4 of us, how about we make plans to invite them next time so I will have more time to prepare.” (or something like that)

Well, it was going to be at our home, but everyone was going to bring something to share…though I still have to clean and get teh house ready for guests!

I would have them over for dinner. I have a gay couple I have dinners with too. BUT… although I trust the Church’s teaching on homosexuality being wrong, I am of the more Liberal mind where I think we focus too much on this sin and not on others (like co-habitation that you brought up).

I think you have it right that you can still be friends with and share good times with them, but going to their wedding is probably not good. They already know what you believe anyways right? So you certainly aren’t condoning anything.

Well, the heterosexual couple are our friends, the lesbians are our friend’s sister and her partner who we don’t really know (yet). I think that’s why it’s tricky – I could avoid having to deal with any of this because I don’t know them, but then I think that’s wrong because I should shine Jesus’ love to everyone I can.

 

[jwashu]

Personally, I see nothing wrong with having them over for dinner. Jesus ate and drank with sinners all the time, remember. In fact, not allowing them over because of their lifestyle will do nothing to bring them closer to God, and, take it from someone who’s BTDT, it will be more apt to make them turn further, because, whether or not this is true, (and I don’t believe it is), they will think of you as “just another ignorant christian.”

Witness to them. Show them God’s love. Invite them into your home.

I agree except I wouldn’t take this very first time to witness or they will see it as your religion being shoved down their throat. On the OTHER hand if it comes up explain the Church’s teachings on SSA.

Tell them that unlike other “Christian” Churches the Catholic Church understands that life gives us all many different crosses to bear. Just like some people have the tendency to be very attracted to everyone they meet and thus often have a fedility issue, others are attracted to members of the same sex. The Church understands that this is the case but the Bible and the teachings of the Church are clear in that acting on these feelings is a serious matter or grave sin in the eyes of your Faith. Because it is such a serious matter and because of the emotion tied into it, many feel that it’s something they can’t escape and they can’t on their own. Only through the grace of God can someone overcome those SSA desires.

Point out though that as Catholics it’s not your place to judge but rather teach the message of Christ for those who will listen. Then just leave it at that…

Most importantly, pray and ask God to give you strength that night and should the subject come up, to give you the right words to say. He will

The most difficult situation though, IMHO, is not the fact that you have a gay couple coming over. But the fact that you have another couple coming over who are also in a grevious state of mortal sin but that dosen’t seem to matter as much. While it may “seem” more normal to you, all 4 individuals are living in a state of mortal sin that separates them from God. Truly, IMHO, there is no difference. From a Catholic standpoint, to be ok with yoru friend living in sin and not ok with the other couple living in sin is somewhat hipocritical.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to be mean, far from it because I have and deal with a similar situation constantly. I’ve been there, it’s very easy, because cohabitation before marriage is so “accepted” as “normal” today to overlook that in the eyes of the Church there may not be any difference. Living with a person of the same or opposite sex and being intimate outside the bonds of marriage are both motal sins. Give the hetrosexual can eventually get married and remove that sin and the homosexual can not. However at this point I see little difference.

At least that is my understanding, please read the information on Catholic Answeres about the Church’s teachings reagading homosexuality and SSA though to double check me

Joe

 

[Belle10]

Most importantly, pray and ask God to give you strength that night and should the subject come up, to give you the right words to say. He will

The most difficult situation though, IMHO, is not the fact that you have a gay couple coming over. But the fact that you have another couple coming over who are also in a grevious state of mortal sin but that dosen’t seem to matter as much. While it may “seem” more normal to you, all 4 individuals are living in a state of mortal sin that separates them from God. Truly, IMHO, there is no difference. From a Catholic standpoint, to be ok with yoru friend living in sin and not ok with the other couple living in sin is somewhat hipocritical.

Joe

Hi Joe, thanks for responding.

I understand the church’s teaching on SSA and cohabitation. I did state in an earlier post that I realize the cohabitation is wrong as well, and even though it doesn’t seem as intrinsically disordered as the homosexual lifestyle, I know it is still a sin. The thing is, I cohabitated before marriage and have since confessed and received forgiveness for it (thank God!) so I guess I would be concerned about them thinking I was hypocritical for that. We are already friends with the heterosexual couple (so it makes it more sensitive, KWIM?), we don’t yet know the homosexual couple (so I could avoid the situation all together…).

I certainly am going to pray about this!

 

[savienu]

I would have them over for dinner. I have a gay couple I have dinners with too. BUT… although I trust the Church’s teaching on homosexuality being wrong, I am of the more Liberal mind where I think we focus too much on this sin and not on others (like co-habitation that you brought up).

I think you have it right that you can still be friends with and share good times with them, but going to their wedding is probably not good. They already know what you believe anyways right? So you certainly aren’t condoning anything.

I agree with that, too. Why is THIS sin so much worse than any other? The answer- it’s not. We are ALL sinners, and it is only by God’s grace that we are anything else.

 

[blessedtoo]

Belle,
In my experience with my homosexual friends, it is very RARE that they give you an opportunity to express your beliefs and your faith. More than likely, you will find yourself in the VERY uncomfortable position of nodding with a strage smile on your face when they regale the guests with tales of their family experiences. You certainly could pipe up with your beliefs at that point, but please realize that the situation itself (a friendly dinner party) would not be conducive to such a scene and would probably not play out as you would like.

The friends you originally invited are indeed living in sin, BUT their relationship (while currently illicit) is ORDERED to it’s natural conclusion, which in their case, will be marriage. If your friends do not know your position on homosexual behavior, perhaps the witnessing you need to do is with them, and not with a new relationship that is certainly not your responsibility or obligation to pursue.

 

[Belle10]

Belle,
In my experience with my homosexual friends, it is very RARE that they give you an opportunity to express your beliefs and your faith. More than likely, you will find yourself in the VERY uncomfortable position of nodding with a strage smile on your face when they regale the guests with tales of their family experiences. You certainly could pipe up with your beliefs at that point, but please realize that the situation itself (a friendly dinner party) would not be conducive to such a scene and would probably not play out as you would like.

The friends you originally invited are indeed living in sin, BUT their relationship (while currently illicit) is ORDERED to it’s natural conclusion, which in their case, will be marriage. If your friends do not know your position on homosexual behavior, perhaps the witnessing you need to do is with them, and not with a new relationship that is certainly not your responsibility or obligation to pursue.

Blessedtoo, thank you for this post. I think what you have described is what I was feeling but couldn’t p(name removed by moderator)oint. What I think I’m going to suggest is that this time, our friends come over and that some other time we can go to our friend’s home at which point if they want to invite his sister and her partner, that’ll be his decision. I know I can do this in a way that will not hurt feelings and that will make this a much more comfortable and enjoyable experience for me (I can deal with certain things “out in the world” but wasn’t sure I wanted to bring it into my home, you know?).

Thanks for putting into words what I couldn’t! Thank you everyone who responded – I really do appreciate your insights.

 

[puzzleannie]

in the first place, when you plan a dinner party, you also plan the guest list, and it is rude for those you invite to suggest additions, unless it is an extremely informal gathering.

in the second place, unless you are prepared to investigate the moral life of all your guests including their activities behind closed doors, you cannot set a standard that applies only to some.

if you don’t want certain people around your children because in your best judgment as a parent, that could be harmful, you are not required to state a reason why the guest is not invited.

a dinner party is not the best setting for confronting someone about their lifestyle and challenging their actions, and is a very poor evangelization tactic.