Need direction, prayers and advice

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Yes, people should just initiate themselves into the Church, according to their own feelings of readiness, without waiting to complete the discernment process. To heck with the priest and the Bishop; what do they know about being Catholic? :rolleyes:
jm, I get your point, But have you been following the thread? We are not talking about a catechumen who has not yet been fully instructed. The OP, subject of this discussion, is a member of the church, who desires to go to confession. And he has amply demonstrated, on this board, his understanding of the sacrament. Nobody is objecting to necessary instruction for catechumens. The problem (according to me anyway) is the practice of putting all kinds of people, including Catholics, who have all kinds of needs,into RCIA as a one-size-fits-all pastoral catchall.

(I almost said putting all kinds of people into RCIA willy-nilly!)
 
jm, I get your point, But have you been following the thread? We are not talking about a catechumen who has not yet been fully instructed.
No, read the OP again: “I was born and baptized Catholic, as an infant. Fell from the faith at a young age and only in the last year have I begun to respond to God’s call.”

So crm, contrary to your point, he actually IS a catechumen who has not yet been fully instructed.

I agree with much of what you’re saying, but I also agree that the priest is a huge part of this discussion, and without his (name removed by moderator)ut to this thread, we shouldn’t be too forceful.
 
I’m not suggesting that the original poster should quit RCIA. You made that leap. I’m just saying, since they are ALREADY CATHOLIC, and clearly indicate an understanding of the nature of sin and the efficacy of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, that that Sacrament should not be unduly delayed.
If he has already made his First Confession, then there is no reason he can’t go. But if he is going to be prepared for his First Confession during Lent along with the rest of the Candidates, then he is not being “unduly delayed.” We don’t just throw people into the Confessional, unprepared.
Seven-year-old children are allowed (and required) to go to Confession.
Yes, and once a year during Advent we have a four-week preparation program for them - we don’t just throw them in there without teaching them how to say the prayers, first.
 
I’m not suggesting that the original poster should quit RCIA. You made that leap.
First Confession marks the end of the Period of Purification, for Candidates. From there, within 24-48 hours, the Candidate receives Confirmation and First Holy Communion, and then he begins the Period of Mystagogia.
 
Period of Purification?

Period of Mystagogia?

He’s CATHOLIC not KABALLA. And he just wants to goto CONFESSION.

This is like RTZI! (the Rite of Twilight Zone Initiation)
 
Period of Purification?

Period of Mystagogia?

He’s CATHOLIC not KABALLA. And he just wants to goto CONFESSION.
Has he had his First Confession, yet? If so, he doesn’t have to ask permission (and shouldn’t be in RCIA) - if not, it won’t harm him to receive instructions on the Sacrament, first, before going.

My understanding is that he was baptized in a Catholic Church, but has only recently begun to be catechized, and is attending RCIA to receive the rest of his Initiation Sacraments, along with First Confession.
 
jm, I can see that you well intentioned.I guess we just have a fundamentally different understanding of the sacraments.

That a priest would deny confession to a soul in pain is unthinkable. That he would do so on the basis that the poor fellow’s conscience has had the bad taste to bother him before the Easter vigil is even worse. It is contrary to everything that the Church teaches about the priestly ministry, the mercy of God, and the sacrament of penance.

It is also contrary to canon law: “Canon 213: The Christian faithful have the right to receive assistance from the sacred pastors out of the spiritual goods of the Church, especially the word of God and the sacraments.”

This idea that pastoral need must be subordinated to the tyranny of the calendar has come to have greater currency in the culture of RCIA than the grace of the sacraments. This is a grave error.

I googled “period of purification” and learned that there is indeed such an institution in the culture of RCIA.It is “Stage 3” of RCIA, excuse me, The RCIA, and it has an elaborate protocol. Ironically, its full name is “period of purification and enlightenment,” implying that the RCIA instructors convey enlightenment. Well, as every good catechist learns early on, you can’t give what you don’t have! But I digress.

Then on a hunch I googled “rcia individual pastoral need” and one of the first page hits was a document from the USCCB website which says in part “When inquirers present themselves for the RCIA, personal and individual attention is a key element of pastoral care…”

Now we’re getting somewhere! Is it possible that the initial intent for RCIA was that it would deliver individualized pastoral services to inquirers, and that later this was somehow modified in practice, for reasons of administrative convenience, to put the whole class on a common schedule, moving together in lockstep toward the Easter vigil, and with individual pastoral needs necessarily subordinated to an arbitrary and universal standard of formal “preparation?” Yes, that would make sense, administratively if not pastorally.

But why is the absurdity of this situation not self evident? If the end game of RCIA is full participation in the life of the Church, and if sacraments are an essential part of the Christian life, then how can an RCIA administrator, acting with the authority of the Church, deny the sacrament to an initiated member in desparate need?

And on an even broader level, if salvation is the highest purpose of the Christian life, then how can we deny the one sacrament that is absolutely essential to salvation? (in most cases; deathbed baptisms, innocent children, etc. excepted)

And what is my authority for asserting that salvation is the highest purpose of the Christian life? Why it is the highest possible authority: the RCIA playbook! Here, from the script for The Rite of Acceptance into the Order of Catechumens, we read:

*Celebrant:
What do you ask of God’s Church?

Candidate:
Faith.

Celebrant:
What does faith offer you?

Candidate:
Eternal life.
*

There it is! Eternal life!

Let’s keep our eye on the ball, shall we? LET THE POOR MAN GO TO CONFESSION! Give him a shot at eternal life! After all, he is already baptized in the Catholic Church and never should have been tracked into The RCIA in the first place!

And how do I know THAT? Easy, the RCIA FAQ from the USCCB web site (emphasis added):

What is the RCIA?
The RCIA, which stands for Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults, is a process through which non-baptized men and women enter the Catholic Church. It includes several stages marked by study, prayer and rites at Mass. Participants in the RCIA are known as catechumens… The inquirer stands in the midst of the parish community and states that he or she wants to continue the process and become a baptized member of the Catholic Church.
 
No, read the OP again: “I was born and baptized Catholic, as an infant. Fell from the faith at a young age and only in the last year have I begun to respond to God’s call.”

So crm, contrary to your point, he actually IS a catechumen who has not yet been fully instructed.

I agree with much of what you’re saying, but I also agree that the priest is a huge part of this discussion, and without his (name removed by moderator)ut to this thread, we shouldn’t be too forceful.
surriter, I appreciate your good will, and I agree that the priest is an important player here. And it is possible that the priest’s intention has not been transmitted to us clearly.

Discussions like this are like puzzles, necessarily worked on with only some of the facts available.

But we can say two things with certainty:
  1. If he is baptized then he is not a catechumen.
  2. If he was baptized in the Catholic Church then he has a right to receive the sacrament of penance, and to receive it expeditiously, notwithstanding RCIA protocols for catechumens.
crm
 
jm et al., thanks for all the thoughtful comments. You have given me the opportunity to read up on RCIA, something I do not know a lot about. I will continue to follow the thread. May I propose that we all consider offering prayers for our penitent friend the OP.
crm
 
jm, I can see that you well intentioned.I guess we just have a fundamentally different understanding of the sacraments.

That a priest would deny confession to a soul in pain is unthinkable. That he would do so on the basis that the poor fellow’s conscience has had the bad taste to bother him before the Easter vigil is even worse. It is contrary to everything that the Church teaches about the priestly ministry, the mercy of God, and the sacrament of penance.

It is also contrary to canon law: “Canon 213: The Christian faithful have the right to receive assistance from the sacred pastors out of the spiritual goods of the Church, especially the word of God and the sacraments.”

This idea that pastoral need must be subordinated to the tyranny of the calendar has come to have greater currency in the culture of RCIA than the grace of the sacraments. This is a grave error.

I googled “period of purification” and learned that there is indeed such an institution in the culture of RCIA.It is “Stage 3” of RCIA, excuse me, The RCIA, and it has an elaborate protocol. Ironically, its full name is “period of purification and enlightenment,” implying that the RCIA instructors convey enlightenment. Well, as every good catechist learns early on, you can’t give what you don’t have! But I digress.
No, and it’s clear that you have never participated in a properly run RCIA. The Period of Purification and Enlightenment is when the candidates and the Elect (who stopped being Catechumens at the start of this Period, when they met with the Bishop and received the Rite of Election) enter into a period of prayer and final discernment. The Catechists have completed their work and have gone home - there is no more Catechesis taking place, here. For Candidates, the final step of this period is First Confession; for the Elect, it’s Baptism.
But why is the absurdity of this situation not self evident? If the end game of RCIA is full participation in the life of the Church, and if sacraments are an essential part of the Christian life, then how can an RCIA administrator, acting with the authority of the Church, deny the sacrament to an initiated member in desparate need?
If there is, indeed, “desperate need” then the priest will discern that, and give him First Confession before he has completed any of the previous steps. However, it does not seem to me that there is “desperate need” here. He simply wants to jump over the steps and hurry the process along.
What is the RCIA?
The RCIA, which stands for Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults, is a process through which non-baptized
men and women enter the Catholic Church. It includes several stages marked by study, prayer and rites at Mass. Participants in the RCIA are known as catechumens… The inquirer stands in the midst of the parish community and states that he or she wants to continue the process and become a baptized member of the Catholic Church.
Okay - a couple of Googles and suddenly you are an expert on RCIA. The North American Forum is probably thrilled to know of you, and will be calling you up to hire you at any moment now … 😉

The RCIA is, certainly, primarily for the unbaptized - however, it also contains Rites and procedures for baptized persons coming into the Church from other Christian organizations, and also for uncatechized Catholics. See paragraphs 376-386 of the Rite. You’ll notice there that provision is given for them to go to First Confession, if they haven’t received it yet, at the same time as the Candidates, on the morning of the same day that they receive the Sacraments of Confirmation and First Holy Communion.
 
jm and I are in full agreeement on one thing: I am not an expert on RCIA.

Not likely to become one, either, though it is interesting.

Now that we have had our fun, may I point out the obvious? All OP has to do is escape from his RCIA classroom on Saturday afternoon, go down the street to the next parish, walk into the confessional and spill his guts!

Maybe he doesn’t do it because he has not yet been adequately “prepared.” 😉 But that answer is on google, too:

sacredheart-eccleshall.org.uk/assets/pdf/ChildrensConfessionLeaflet.PDF
 
I also went through RCIA as an adult, having been baptized Catholic, received first communion, and been to confession as a child. I seeked to be confirmed when I was in my 20s and so went to RCIA.

I don’t remember if I could go to confession during that time or not.

Two things that just came to my mind:
1- Maybe it is a large class and the priest isn’t consciously aware that this specific candidate is seeking confirmation “only” and has already been baptized?
2- If a priest tells us we don’t need to go to confession at this time, doesn’t that mean that if we wait out of trust/obedience to him, it is not our “responsibility” in some sense? Because the intention is there to go, but we trust the priest?

I don’t kow, just thinking.
I asked priests before communion before, if I was ok to receive or if something had been a mortal sin. Once the priest told me it was not a mortal sin, I accepted that and definitely felt that receiving would not be sinful.
But maybe that only counts for the scrupulous like me… 🤷
Because of course we have been given our own conscience too, and in most people that works all right… or not…?

Kathrin
 
surriter, I appreciate your good will, and I agree that the priest is an important player here. And it is possible that the priest’s intention has not been transmitted to us clearly.

Discussions like this are like puzzles, necessarily worked on with only some of the facts available.

But we can say two things with certainty:
  1. If he is baptized then he is not a catechumen.
  2. If he was baptized in the Catholic Church then he has a right to receive the sacrament of penance, and to receive it expeditiously, notwithstanding RCIA protocols for catechumens.
crm
You are correct in that he is not a catechumen. I overlooked that and was focusing on the “fully instructed” part.
 
2- If a priest tells us we don’t need to go to confession at this time, doesn’t that mean that if we wait out of trust/obedience to him, it is not our “responsibility” in some sense? Because the intention is there to go, but we trust the priest?
Maybe, but I wouldn’t want to bet my soul on it. As I would correctly be reminded at my judgment, I am aware of when I need to go to confession. If I end up in hell, then the priest may have to answer for his negligence at his judgment, but I am still in hell!

crm
 
jm and I are in full agreeement on one thing: I am not an expert on RCIA.

Not likely to become one, either, though it is interesting.

Now that we have had our fun, may I point out the obvious? All OP has to do is escape from his RCIA classroom on Saturday afternoon, go down the street to the next parish, walk into the confessional and spill his guts!
And then he could stay for Mass and receive his First Holy Communion, too. The Bishop does a Confirmation ceremony at least once a week, somewhere in the Diocese; he could sneak into that and get himself Confirmed, as well, rather than having to wait until Easter with his RCIA class.

Why not, since we are already deciding that the priest who is leading his RCIA has no idea what he’s doing, anyway? 🤷
 
Maybe, but I wouldn’t want to bet my soul on it. As I would correctly be reminded at my judgment, I am aware of when I need to go to confession. If I end up in hell, then the priest may have to answer for his negligence at his judgment, but I am still in hell!

crm
He is not going to go to Hell; don’t be ridiculous. If he is in danger of death, the priest will give him all of his Sacraments right there in the hospital. And if something happens, it is God who created the RCIA process, and God will understand that he was going to go to Confession on Easter Vigil morning; God is not going to hold it against him that he was still in the process of being prepared for the Sacraments, and hadn’t yet begun to receive them, because it is God’s process; not ours.

We go through this exact same thing with people who want to rush their Baptism, too - they want to be Baptized immediately, on the off chance that they might die (even though they are in perfect health, and not accident-prone) months before they have been prepared, yet.
 
<< it is God who created the RCIA process>>

As I said, we have different understandings of the sacraments.
 
<>

Of course not. If he is not already been confirmed, and wishes to be, then he needs to be properly presented to the Bishop, and the Bishop must knowingly and willingly administer the sacrament. And of course the sacrament should not be unreasomnably withheld, and it is reasonable to require preparation. After all, confirmation is not essential to salvation; there is not great urgency.

In dramatic contrast, he has a RIGHT to the sacrament of penance NOW because, regardless of whether you like itit, he is a MEMBER OF THE CHURCH, he believes himself to be in grave sin, he has demonstrated his understanding of the sacrament (thus proving that he is adequately "prepared, and he has requested it!
 
<<get himself Confirmed, as well, rather than having to wait until Easter with his RCIA class>>

Another misunderstanding of the sacrament. Confirmation is administered to an individual, there is no requirement to receive it as part of an RCIA Class.

And it may be administered on days other than Easter and, in cases of pastoral need, should be.
 
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