Need examples for this SSA apologetics challenge

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3DOCTORS

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Having an ongoing intellectual debate with a friend. Both of us are Catholic but she is not currently practicing and is liberal on many of the moral issues.

She believes that God created people gay, and that because of this, civil partnerships should be allowed, that not to allow them is unfair, and so on.

I have tried the different points such as pointing out that as a straight woman I can’t justify compromising my morals and cohabiting and having sex with a guy just to have the companionship, and financial advantages and so on. In other words, since I don’t at this time have a husband, or a boyfriend who intends to marry me properly in the Church, I have to bear my cross of being alone and celibate.

I think of John, Chapter 10, in which Jesus said one who doesn’t enter the sheepfold through the gate but climbs over elsewhere is a thief and a marauder. He was referring to His role as the Good Shepherd, of course. But I also see this verse as applicable to those who want the benefits of marriage without the proper procedures and the commitment.

But anyway, here’s the thing I am wondering. There are many people out there, who once lived and ID’d as gay men and lesbian women, who have returned to their Catholic Faith and embraced chastity as a goal. And have had success.

So I want to ask my friend, "What about these people, then? Were they “not really gay in the first place”? Just “posers” who thought it would be cool to pretend to be gay/lesbian? If they are “created gay” would the reverts be sinning, “going against God’s plan” of having the world include gay “married” people? 🤷 You see where I’m going with this?

Or . . . could it be that the reverts have found the Truth? 😉 Their existence - and their relief at returning to the Church - cannot be denied. Many participate in Courage and Encourage groups at various parishes. How to account for that if these folks were “created gay”? :ehh:

I wish I could talk to some of these persons; I know one or two, but is there any source of anonymous conversion stories so I would have more evidence and be able to relate this to my friend and others regarding this issue?

It could be persons who are simply living chastely (which I would suspect might be the majority) but could also include those who have even entered into “straight” marriages, if that was what they felt God was calling them to. Either way, it would help to have personal testimonies of how the new life is now preferred over the former life by the person.

Thanks in advance for any help. 🙂
 
I don’t know if you are aware of the Courage apostate couragerc.net/ but you may find some resources there.

I find it most interesting that she claims “God created people gay” so there is no free will and we just have to accept them. Why in Heaven’s name does she think this? By this logic, does God not also create pedophiles, rapists, sadists? And since God created them, should we not also allow grown men to marry children and provide repeal rape laws - after all, there is nothing they can do about it because God made them this way.

Your friend is choosing a moral cop-out and laying the blame on God to cover up for the moral and immoral choices we make (I know from where I speak as I am a sinner like everyone else),
 
Just to let you know, Courage and Catholic doctrine have nothing to do with the “ex-gay” movement. There’s no “praying the gay out of you” going on there. Most are happy to accept themselves as gay and live the call to chastity.
 
Having natural inclinations does not make it morally acceptable to act on them. I want an IV with ice cream in it, but that doesn’t make it ok.
 
AdriannaJean said:
Just to let you know, Courage and Catholic doctrine have nothing to do with the “ex-gay” movement. There’s no “praying the gay out of you” going on there. Most are happy to accept themselves as gay and live the call to chastity.
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Correct. I have gay friends so I have read their materials. I just wanted to clarify that anyone’s story, whether living celibacy or those few who did find it possible to “go straight” and marry, will give me perspectives that might be helpful. But it’s good that you point this out so people know. 🙂
 
TheDoctor said:
I don’t know if you are aware of the Courage apostate couragerc.net/ but you may find some resources there.

I find it most interesting that she claims “God created people gay” so there is no free will and we just have to accept them. Why in Heaven’s name does she think this? By this logic, does God not also create pedophiles, rapists, sadists? And since God created them, should we not also allow grown men to marry children and provide repeal rape laws - after all, there is nothing they can do about it because God made them this way.
Your friend is choosing a moral cop-out and laying the blame on God to cover up for the moral and immoral choices we make (I know from where I speak as I am a sinner like everyone else),
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Took the words right off my keyboard.
 
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